a little intelligents, because its clear someone left it out the testing room

[Lavastein]

i sit here in absolute horror as the gaem actually hits me with all its flaws. I have never been so angry at my game. I went on crusade you see because mr pope asks for it. I am the only one on it it seems. I have a great army in the ranks, i hope to take jerusalem and try to get templars or any order aamof. As i march my troops are deserting from me. I say "how could this be? i am marching forward!" of cousre 25% of my forces desert. and i wonder why am i marching so slowely. its because i have a cardinal and a spy in my army. Great, they deserted from that. Im already pissed off becasue it costs good french money to crusade and build armies i can ill afford. so then of course i buy 2 ships to get to the holyland quickly. Well the egyptians said to me, "no way jose!" and attacked me near sicily and push my ships back. I lose another 25% of my forces next turn and amazingly the inquisador decides nows the time to kill the chivalrous king in bremin with 21 units in a fortress with him (full stack). I mean of course we want to kill the only faction on crusade's leader. I mean why not? so i reset the game 4 times before they stoped.(thats why i stress saving your game every turn so to avoid the bs inquisador) so i land my forces on sicily because the galleys that i bought are waeak and i dont want to lose anymore men. I buy mercanaries and prepare to buy another set if boats next turn. 25% pf my forces leave again. All the mercs sept one left my army........now think about this. I buy mercs who follow leader who pays. But mercs want to go to crusade for free so they leave army who will pays them for service. :hmmm: ehem, egypt kills the boats and im stuck on sicily. 25% of my forces leave my army and now i have half a stack full and im stranded near palermo becaus ei cant attack the city nor can i move becasue of a sicilian army near me. And the black stan kills another general in a city.


so who tested this game? if they even bothered to see you know maybe troops on a boat shouldnt be allowed to desert. i figure its like jumping into a pit of lava to not die from the avalanche.

so what have we learned here. I hate inqisadors and crusades and the sega peeps didnt test the game. if they indeed did fire the testers, its clear someone didnt play the game at all.



i feel better now. Im going to restart the french campaign. I refuse to replay the one i just had.

[aves]

ironic that you misspelled intelligence and then game in your first sentence.

But OT, yes some very weak playtesting/bug swatting in this game

[Sammyboi]

ironic that you misspelled intelligence and then game in your first sentence.

But OT, yes some very weak playtesting/bug swatting in this game

That's exactly what I was thinking

Sometimes we all need to vent about the bugs/design though.

[Lavastein]

ironic that you misspelled intelligence and then game in your first sentence.

But OT, yes some very weak playtesting/bug swatting in this game

i know i know, i didnt reread anything and i was fuming mad when i wrote the thing. Did you realise how long and ramblyish it is?


ah, i didnt realise the sega man was here, and a tester!!

ok here waht i cam up with as my general and priest were toasted minutes ago...again.


1. inquisadors should have there killing ability eliminated. its no fun to leave my generals in a city and quickly stack up units because of fears from the black book.

2. give the cardinals and priests abilities to play there game and call them heritcs as well.

3. up the assasins abilities to kill people.

4. eliminate the merchants seize tactic, or concider seizing a foreigners assets as a declaration of war.

5. desertion on crusades by is a no no. that or only allow crusade specific units to desert.

6. make constantinople richer and far more powerful. (the city wasnt bad the gov was)

ill think of more ways sporky. But i want you to think about this, as a tester of games, dont you think these aspects should have been thought of by you? Im neither paid nor work for a game industry and i have given you what is expected. Am i wrong to be upset that obvious flaws are not fixed pre-patch?


btw, i rarely fix errors in sentences. If you can clearly understand what a word means i leave it as is.

btw2- i want you to consider this sporky- if i am marching out of a city with a full stack of soldiers, do you honestly think that a guy with a book can just burn my general without like you know the army murdering the entire village or better, saving him?

thats the problem, you dont see the flaw in it.

[Lee1026]

if crusader armies were to be allowed to march straight through everything AND have double the movement points AND if any catholic faction attacks that army they will be excommunicated straight away wouldnt that make it too easy?

Why would it make it too easy?

faction leaders being exempt from being burned as a heretic. that to me personaly would not make me want to keep him safe from them. thus ruining the experience for me. i like the way heretics play out, they put the fear in me when one pops up in one of my regions but once again there are ways to deal with them or avoid them. no one wants to lose thier faction leader im sure and what would be the point of making him immune to inquisitors?

Err... Because no inquisitors in history had the sort of power to actually carry out the burning orders for anyone very high up in society? In fact, I would make all family members more or less immune to inquisitors.

AI army blocking your army from getting to the designated target? why would another faction want you to gain control of more land? the first faction to reach jerusalem or antioc is usualy the faction that takes it first. if crusading become a matter of who was first and closest to declare themselves on a crusade... where would the fun in that be?

You know, that is what they did in real life. Also, isn't the point of the crusades (one of them, at least), so that you can march though other catholic nations? The fun part, naturally, would to defeat the defending army at the end of the crusade.

Remember, hard does not come from loading the dice against the player. Otherwise, we wouldn't need to have a AI at all. We just need to load down the dice against the player to do it. Fun comes from playing the game. Not figuring out how to dodge the bugs.

And yet you all do it by constant whining. Now im not saying that pointing out bugs is wrong, its good and helps CA know what to fix in patches, as is constructive criticism. But positive comments about the game are rare on this forum. Would you want to read this forum if you were from CA and all you saw was constant negativity? It's a shame that the fans of a series are always the most critical, and forget to say the occasional "great work CA" before saying "but i think this is bugged and should be improved by such-and-such".

As you very well know, many of us have been here since long before the game was released.

all this "oh its bugged" talk gets us no where

Bug reports are probably the single most important thing that a community give back to the programmer.

when i reply its from a personal perspective. ive played this game for countless hours and know lots of different strategies to deal with the majority of the situation that pops up

In other words, you know how to dodge the bugs. Problem is, good programming is not supposed to have bugs.

1. not allowing troops on ships to dessert from an army can be open to so much abuse and cheating ie keeping all your troops on a ship and wait turn after turn knowing they will never dessert then moving them somewhere using the double movment points to surprise attack another faction

See: sack of Constantinople. That is what happened in real life. You can give the player incentives against it, by simply having the player excommunicated, or have their reputation sunk into the ground.

[FriendoftheDork]

i

1. inquisadors should have there killing ability eliminated. its no fun to leave my generals in a city and quickly stack up units because of fears from the black book.

2. give the cardinals and priests abilities to play there game and call them heritcs as well.

3. up the assasins abilities to kill people.

4. eliminate the merchants seize tactic, or concider seizing a foreigners assets as a declaration of war.

5. desertion on crusades by is a no no. that or only allow crusade specific units to desert.

6. make constantinople richer and far more powerful. (the city wasnt bad the gov was)

1. That would mean simply removing inquisitors from the game. IMO a bad move. I liked the inquisitors in MTW1, and having them all controlled by the pope made me feel like the pope's authority was more tangible. Should inq. be fixed? Yes. Removed? No. Simply making it impossible to target royalty, and impossible to target the same individual twice should fix it.

Better yet would be to make it possible to have family members tried, but that the king has to approve it. Failing to approve it would cause the pope to excommunicate you. However I don't think this is possible in a mere patch.

2. They can already burn heretics and witches, which pretty much satisfies my need to incinerate people Trying inquisitors would be silly.

3. Yeah, sure. ATM you need to reload to make them effective against allied targets. What bugs me is that whenever an assassin is killed, the enemy always know it was you who sent him. There should be a % chance of this, not just automatic discovery.

But assassins have always been risky, in other TW titles.

4. No way this is fun! And the only real way to make money with them IMO.

5. Again, no way. Desertions, however, should better reflect how well the fighting against the obstacles goes rather than how long it takes to reach the target.

Most of the crusades I launch gets there with no desertion at all.

6. Don't know how rich the city is. The city was considered great, but mainly because of it's culture and trade. Baghdad was actually greater (population etc.).

[Andronicus Comnenus]

1. That would mean simply removing inquisitors from the game. IMO a bad move. I liked the inquisitors in MTW1, and having them all controlled by the pope made me feel like the pope's authority was more tangible. Should inq. be fixed? Yes. Removed? No. Simply making it impossible to target royalty, and impossible to target the same individual twice should fix it.

Personally I think the Pope is, in general, too powerful. It appears that the CA have chosen to model Innocent III's version of papal authority, rather than modeling the actual strength of the papacy in this period. If you look at the cases of Frederick II or King John, for example, its clear that a state of excommunication/interdict was not necessarily the ultimate penalty it is in MII - certainly, it is notable that the entire of Christendom didn't declare war on either prince the second the respective Popes made their proclamation. If the pope is going to be as powerful as he is, the very least they could have done is added other popes to whom you could switch allegiance. Anti-popes were, after all, an important authority-limiting factor in the real middle ages.

Also, the inquisition. I believe that, in Toulouse, 40 guilty verdicts (out of 900) resulted in execution. These were carried out by the secular powers, rather than the church itself. The point of the inquisition was not to act as the pope's private general/king/prince killing machine, it was simply to route-out heresy. For the inquisition, to kill a person was to admit defeat. It's a little bit silly to have them storming round the map killing everyone in sight.

[sporkyness]

1. not allowing troops on ships to dessert from an army can be open to so much abuse and cheating ie keeping all your troops on a ship and wait turn after turn knowing they will never dessert then moving them somewhere using the double movment points to surprise attack another faction

2. if your king isnt pious enough and the inquisitor decides to burn him as a heretic... err thats not a bug. thats how its meant to be. next time make sure your lands are clear of heretics and inquisitors wont be around your country. or if you are moving to a region full of inquisitors....dont

3. your crusader army may have been moving towards your target, but if you take too long then im afriad they will start desserting nontheless. each turn is 2 years (unless oyu mod it) so just imagine it takes your army 6 turns before you even reach constantinople. thats 12 years on the march and your only half way... wouldnt you feel like turning back and going home?

all the things you have said so far are not bugs....just learn from your mistakes and start another campaign

oh and heres a tip for you. you can usualy get more crusader units once you reach your destination to compensate for any desserters

enjoy

[a8686]

I was upset about the same kinda thing happening.. I get upset when I make stupid mistakes too and lose a good general or a nice army.. But I learn from it.. And everything spork said makes perfect sense... I learned not to take the long road to the holy land (also mercs and crusaders are EVERYWHERE) and haven't lost a crusader army since... I've even gone as far as shipping my army before joining crusade, stoping along the way to pick up mercs then arrive at the target and join...

[Lee1026]

1. not allowing troops on ships to dessert from an army can be open to so much abuse and cheating ie keeping all your troops on a ship and wait turn after turn knowing they will never dessert then moving them somewhere using the double movment points to surprise attack another faction

2. if your king isnt pious enough and the inquisitor decides to burn him as a heretic... err thats not a bug. thats how its meant to be. next time make sure your lands are clear of heretics and inquisitors wont be around your country. or if you are moving to a region full of inquisitors....dont

3. your crusader army may have been moving towards your target, but if you take too long then im afriad they will start desserting nontheless. each turn is 2 years (unless oyu mod it) so just imagine it takes your army 6 turns before you even reach constantinople. thats 12 years on the march and your only half way... wouldnt you feel like turning back and going home?

all the things you have said so far are not bugs....just learn from your mistakes and start another campaign

oh and heres a tip for you. you can usualy get more crusader units once you reach your destination to compensate for any desserters

enjoy

1. That is a design flaw of game mechanics.
2. Name me one king that have been burned as heretic by an inquisitor. Oh wait. It never happened. Ever wonder why the pope bothered to excommunicate kings instead of simply burning them?
3.That means that it is a bug with the speed of movement. The men would only desert if they think that they are not going as fast as they should. However, if we are already moving them as fast as we can.....

Oh, and here is a tip for you: Most bugs in the world can be worked around. The fact that there exist a workaround for it does not mean that it is not a bug.

[Amroth]

1. not allowing troops on ships to dessert from an army can be open to so much abuse and cheating ie keeping all your troops on a ship and wait turn after turn knowing they will never dessert then moving them somewhere using the double movment points to surprise attack another faction

How many would actually 'cheat' in that way (and what is the problem if they do decide to 'cheat'? It's not like its an online game). On the other hand you have units deserting from ships in the middle of the Mediterranean - hurts the medieval athmosphere (something which is, IMO, an important aspect). Gameplay flaw.

2. if your king isnt pious enough and the inquisitor decides to burn him as a heretic... err thats not a bug. thats how its meant to be. next time make sure your lands are clear of heretics and inquisitors wont be around your country. or if you are moving to a region full of inquisitors....dont

Another thing which hurts the 'athmosphere' - this never happened, and it is just silly to have a inquisitor go into your factions capital, presumably into your king's castle and remove him in front of the men of his household. Gameplay flaw.

3. your crusader army may have been moving towards your target, but if you take too long then im afriad they will start desserting nontheless. each turn is 2 years (unless oyu mod it) so just imagine it takes your army 6 turns before you even reach constantinople. thats 12 years on the march and your only half way... wouldnt you feel like turning back and going home?

If you are moving as fast and far as you can in game terms, and troops still desert, it's a gameplay flaw.

[nicotine]

1. not allowing troops on ships to dessert from an army can be open to so much abuse and cheating ie keeping all your troops on a ship and wait turn after turn knowing they will never dessert then moving them somewhere using the double movment points to surprise attack another faction

If they desert from a ship where do they go...

[sporkyness]

eaten by pac man!!!
gobble gobble lol

[savage_rabbit]

each turn is 2 years (unless oyu mod it) so just imagine it takes your army 6 turns before you even reach constantinople. thats 12 years on the march and your only half way... wouldnt you feel like turning back and going home?

This is just another flaw of the game... these travel times are ludicrous. By no stretch of the imagination would it take that long for an army to march to the holy land.

And yet you all do it by constant whining. Now im not saying that pointing out bugs is wrong, its good and helps CA know what to fix in patches, as is constructive criticism. But positive comments about the game are rare on this forum. Would you want to read this forum if you were from CA and all you saw was constant negativity? It's a shame that the fans of a series are always the most critical, and forget to say the occasional "great work CA" before saying "but i think this is bugged and should be improved by such-and-such".

If I was CA I would be itching to read this forum BECAUSE it reports so many bugs. It would enable me to improve my product and thus reap greater benefits.

Why would I want to hear a bunch of worthless forum-goers worship my game?

[Lavastein]

This is just another flaw of the game... these travel times are ludicrous. By no stretch of the imagination would it take that long for an army to march to the holy land.

i could walk faster to the holyland. if it didnt take the real crusaders to get to jer. in 12 years i doubt we should as well right?

at lusted. exactly what our fellow twc poster said. who cares about hearing fanmail? As a producer of a game i most certainly want to see what others say about how bad something is so that i can make more money next time becasue its fixed.

[HorseArcher]

If I was CA I would be itching to read this forum BECAUSE it reports so many bugs. It would enable me to improve my product and thus reap greater benefits.

Yeah, they do for sure, but some of you guys - not aiming at you personally - are going against the throat of CA members and testers.

"CA didn't test this", "the testers didn't do this" " the testers failed" - all this crap is rather insulting and nothing more than moaning and whining.

How do you know what has been tested anyway?

If you want to post your opinion about a feature that is not very satisfactory or you found a bug, then talk about it, but leave out your poor crying about what CA or Sega did or did not do.

If you have a car and it has a useless feature, you will not get anywhere by calling the carmaker names or accusing them for all sorts of things, but you report it and write a coherent and a "to the point" review of your concern.

If you guys continue to crusade against the game makers and whoever has anything to do with, you will end up crying to yourself and no one will listen to you, and on top of it, you will make us to enforce this forum to be even stricter against such negative attitude.

[Tovi]

Now now, no need to be uncivil.

-Aristocrat

[Taneda Santôka]

Well... this isn't an example of bad Artificial Intelligence, just an example of bad Human Intelligence.
Seriously, there are so many buggs and annoying things in this game, dont start complaining because you play awefully! How can you even imagine going on crusade by sea without a strong fleet and a secured sea route? Do the Egyptians have to let you land for fun? If that happened to me, I'd be pissed at my stupidity, not the game ; I'd even be thankfull to see the AI defend itself accordingly.
I'll go further : you're lucky. I've never experienced such a defensive move, "my" AI is very passive and just wanders around when crusades and jihads are called... But here, it has actually succeeded in stopping the crusade!
And your units might be deserting, they dont cost anything on crusade or when deserting. Same for mercenarries, they dont cost anything when in a crusader army, so I guess they'll be deserting like others if they neither go where they were told they would be going nor get paid...( )
The inquisitor thing is just bad luck, but it is a repoted "bugg" as it's a pain!

[Romanos]

Stop bashing Lavastein guys, please stick to the topic.

[Arakorn]

I have never been so angry at my game. I went on crusade you see because mr pope asks for it. I am the only one on it it seems. I have a great army in the ranks, i hope to take jerusalem and try to get templars or any order aamof. As i march my troops are deserting from me. I say "how could this be? i am marching forward!" of cousre 25% of my forces desert. and i wonder why am i marching so slowely. its because i have a cardinal and a spy in my army. Great, they deserted from that. Im already pissed off becasue it costs good french money to crusade and build armies i can ill afford. so then of course i buy 2 ships to get to the holyland quickly. Well the egyptians said to me, "no way jose!" and attacked me near sicily and push my ships back. I lose another 25% of my forces next turn and amazingly the inquisador decides nows the time to kill the chivalrous king in bremin with 21 units in a fortress with him (full stack). I mean of course we want to kill the only faction on crusade's leader. I mean why not? so i reset the game 4 times before they stoped.(thats why i stress saving your game every turn so to avoid the bs inquisador) so i land my forces on sicily because the galleys that i bought are waeak and i dont want to lose anymore men. I buy mercanaries and prepare to buy another set if boats next turn. 25% pf my forces leave again. All the mercs sept one left my army........now think about this. I buy mercs who follow leader who pays. But mercs want to go to crusade for free so they leave army who will pays them for service. :hmmm: ehem, egypt kills the boats and im stuck on sicily. 25% of my forces leave my army and now i have half a stack full and im stranded near palermo becaus ei cant attack the city nor can i move becasue of a sicilian army near me. And the black stan kills another general in a city.

I agree with sporkyness. Don't take any agents on the same boat, you'll miss your movement bonus. Also it doesn't cost "good french money", as there are no upkeep for Crusader units :wink:

Just assassinate the inquisitors, or raise your characters piety. In my last game I've had at least 5 inquisitors at me so far, and not a single of my char's/agents has been found guilty of herecy yet! Have priests/cardinals remove the heretics, or simply assassinate them.

Stop complaining, this is not even a patched version yet!