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Thread: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

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  1. #1

    Default Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    Okay, so I'm the English, besieging Antwerp which is held by the Danish. I break through the gates (huge walls btw, and a city. Oh, and the campaign is M/M) and order my 6 units of infantry to line up outside the gates. I then move a unit of around 35 or so Dismounted Feudal Knights into the gateway, which draws an attack from a full unit of Nordic Axemen. My knights do away with them fairly handily, having 18 men left afterwards. Before the second unit of axemen can charge men I move the 18 knights back outside the walls and send in a fresh unit. These guys also clean up the axemen very nicely. All that's left now is a unit of 35 Norse Clerics (mounted, in case there's a dismounted version) I send in a full 60 man unit of dismounted English knights to get rid of them.......and the entire unit is demolished to the last man, having killed 2 of the clerics. Keep in mind that the cleric never charged. They were in melee the entire time (unless they were bugged and had a charge bonus the entire time, which is possible since some of my men were being flung into the air as if they'd been charged)
    Anyway, I send in another unit of dismounted english knights, full 60 again, and AGAIN they are slaughtered, this time taking 3 down with them, leaving a unit of 30 norse clerics. Before I lose them all (ie, once there's about 14 left) I try to make them retreat out of the walls. The clerics follow, which is good (I've always been bothered that the AI wouldn't come out of the walls when I attack) but destroy them, then they start going to town on the few men I have left outside the walls (I had actually sent a bunch of men onto the walls to deal with missile units while I was fighting the second lot of axemen, hence the lack of infantry awaiting the cavalry)
    Aaaaaanyway, I then try one last ditch attempt to beat these guys, using the only units I really have left, two units of mounted English Knights, one at 18 and one at 22. They charge the clerics, and fairly quickly demolish them (probably the only time I've ever managed to properly charge with cavalry, ironically)

    So, sorry for the wall of text, but as far as I'm concerned, there is no way that is an accurate outcome for those unit types in melee. Cavalry vs foot halberdiers should stand no chance - even less when they start the fight without charging. This is just the worst example of something I've noticed during the entire time I've been playing this game. Infantry are horribly underpowered, while cavalry, when they *do* charge, are like tiny gods. On top of that, infantry death rates are ridiculously high (perhaps due to the old unit cohesion issue) with my infantry usually being on the verge of total collapse by the time I've brought my cavalry around to a flanking position. Please don't tell me it's my lack of tactial nouse, because I could beat the computer on VH any day of the week in RTW, and had a decent chace of beating pretty well anybody I met in MP. The whole game as far as battling goes just feels a whole lot looser and more disjointed than RTW was. Granted, unit cohesion in RTW was too perfect to be realistic, but it feels more like I'm playing as a high school rugby team rather than a professional army in this one. It really annoys me since absolutely everything else about this game is brilliantly done. I'm one of the seemingly few people who actually likes the camp map diplomacy, the Pope, even the inquisitors (assassination chance of 71% doesn't seem incredibly low to me) so if I'm just doing something horribly wrong that's getting my infantry murdered, please tell me, it would really help me enjoy the game properly.

  2. #2
    Metellus's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    I think its something to do with the Norse Clerics themselves, they have been really tough for me. Otherwise my halberdiers dispose of cavalry with ease. Sure, the cavalry charge in and send men flying, but if they hang around, my men regroup and can cut them down.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    Norse Clerics have an effective against armor trait. So any armored unit with similar or even slightly superior stats will lose anyway.

  4. #4
    EyebrowsMulligan's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    Probably a combination of factors, such as the norse clerics having the 'effective against armour' ability, and the Knights not having a 'good against cavalry' ability despite their weapons.

    There seem to be an awful lot of units which are good against armour but relatively few which are good against cavalry. I'm not saying this is an imbalance, just an observation.

    For the English your only truly effective units against cavalry appear to be other cavalry or archers with the passive AI (in a purely kill/death ratio sense at any rate - sure you can swamp them with levy spearmen who will incur pretty horrible losses). This is probably not helped by the lack of either spear sergeants or armoured sergeants in the English roster.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    Hmmm, I see. Perhaps I should try some other factions before I make my judgements then.
    Still, I have issues with infantry charging other infantry and then, rather than holding a line, the men who are fighting (as opposed to the guys holding back several meters away -_-) running right inside the enemy formation and being fairly well butchered. Also, once the others have joined up, they always seem to end up in the middle of the enemies (yeah, just one enemy inf unit) essentially being flanked by the same unit they're fighting. This happens regardless of single-clicking or double-clicking (why didn't they just leave it as double click to charge? It WORKED at least) anyone have any clues as to why that happens?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    For the English, Sherwood Archers of all people are the best infantry unit against heavy cavalry. They have attack & defense comparable to dismounted English Knights but they also get 'effective against armour'.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    Yeah I agree considering the whole point of the 'hook' on the halberd was to bring riders down (now matter how heavly armoured) or the horse.
    Is a Flashy ****

  8. #8

    Default Re: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    I think there's a bug with halberd units against cavalry. They will charge, but then not attack. If you zoom in to the fighting you'll see them stand around getting killed.

  9. #9
    lawngnome's Avatar Cool as a Dry Ice.
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    Default Re: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    Yeah, sorry, you just experienced a somewhat-common bug. There is an error in the animation sequence that nullifies their attack. Should be addressed in the patch... until then I recommend crossing fingers and toes when halberd units enter battle.
    Under the patronage of lawngnome. Patron of lawngnome.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Does this seem even remotely realistic to anyone?

    I'll back up calling this bug. The short two handed weapons like bills (and anything else that uses the same animation) doesn't attack in combat quite often.

    -Neb

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