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Thread: Which new units should we add?

  1. #1

    Default Which new units should we add?

    Thanks to a little clean up we have created some margins for adding more units to RTH.
    Currently there are eight slots available. Two will be used for the units Macedonian Hypaspists and Italian Cavalry.
    But the rest is still free and we ask for suggestions.

    Which units would you like to see in the next installment of Rome Total History?
    Let us know your ideas and requests!
    Creator of Rome Total History
    Rome 2 sucks, EB, RS and RTR were yesterday...
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Which new units should we add?

    Hey there, first of all great mod I say again.

    To the topic, I would love some more units for Pontus and Baktria, more "hellenic" ones.

    And if you want I can help with some units, so far I have 3 units for pontus but I could made
    more in time.
    Here some pictures:

    Royal Peltasts
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Agrianian Warriors [WIP name, original skin from Persian Invasion TW]
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Pontic Companion Cavalry.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Feel free to say no if you already have the staff for new units
    .
    Last edited by ~Asukav of Epirus~; October 20, 2015 at 12:09 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Which new units should we add?

    Thanks for your kind offer.

    I like your ideas, but my task is to check if it is possible, regarding both the EDU and the DMB.
    Moreover I have to see if it is useful, and I should try to find the way to do it possibly consuming less resources in the two files.
    As I said, the EDU has six or seven slots, while the DMB is full and I don't know if I can free any slots there. So we must add new units on existing type entries in the DMB.

    1. We have currently no Royal Peltasts, so this would require a new entry in the EDU. Since this is an elite peltast unit, my first thought was to unite them with the Greek Heavy Peltast, but checking the EDU I see that Pontus has already Heavy Peltasts (currently they are the only faction to have them along with the Greek Cities). So if they have an elite unit available, the question is, if this is really necessary? Are your Royal Peltasts mentioned anywhere in the sources? Maybe, if not for Pontus, at least for other kingdoms?
    Regarding the DMB, there is a possibility to add them on the greek_heavy_peltast_merc type which is still available for a number of factions. We could then add them for Bactria/Pergamon, the Seleucids, the Macedonians and Epirus, too. That would justify the additional slot a bit more. What do you think about that?

    2. Agrianian Warriors. We have already two units of Agrianians: Agrianian Peltasts and Agrianian Javelin Mercenaries. If I understand you proposal right, your Agrianian Warriors would be different from these? I think there are diverging interpretations of the Agrianians' actual role in the Macedonian system. No doubt they were elite and they were very flexible. But were they javelins, spears, or swords, or a combination? In my opinion two units should do the job. We could, however, differentiate them more. In this case a lot of things are possible. We might transform either the Peltasts or the Javelins in your Warriors, changing armament and description. In any case I was never very happy with the naming of the Agrianian Javelin Mercenaries. One of the two should remain a mercenary unit. So let me know what you think about it.
    Regarding the DMB, the most obvious choice appears again the greek_heavy_peltast_merc type, but if you want them as sword fighters, I need to find something else.
    One last doubt: How did the Agrianians relate to Pontus? They came from Paeonia in Thrace which is at quite a distance from Pontus. I know that they fought for the Seleucids, but is there any source saying they did so for Mithridates or one of his predecessors? Wouldn't it be better to keep them as mercenaries available?
    Finally, if there is a DMB conflict between Pontic Agrianian Peltasts and Pontic Heavy Peltast which of the two would you deem more important?

    3. Pontic Companion. We can add this without consuming resources. We only need to activate the (generic) Companion Cavalry for Pontus. So this is very simple and very useful, too. I'm glad to approve this. If you send me the unit card, the unit info card and the skin, I can do it in five minutes.

    4. Regarding your general collaboration offer, the most urgent task would be a graphic rework of many mercenaries, to get rid of the annoying green and make them look more interesting in battle. This regards again unit info cards and skins. Would you like to work on this?
    Creator of Rome Total History
    Rome 2 sucks, EB, RS and RTR were yesterday...
    Don't you feel like it's time to move on?
    Explore the ancient world, fight epic battles,
    conquer beautiful queens and princesses...
    Try a new groundbreaking mod:
    Experience Rome Total History!
    Play RTH or wait for Rome 3!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Which new units should we add?

    Hi there and yeah I had in mind about the limit of units, let's give a little check about every point;


    1)I already made some more of that Royal Peltasts for Epirus, Ptolemaic Empire, Macedon and of course Pontus so the left its Seleucid Empire and Pergamon/Bactria.
    So I find possible make what you say about the greek_heavy_peltast_merc type, it's up to you to take that decision
    I'll give you the example of every unit so you can see and tell me if you want any changes in the units that I already made:


    Egypt:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Macedon:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Epirus:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    2)About the Agrianian, to be honest it was just me that I liked that unit from RTW Alexander and I introduce to pontus but no historical relate to pontus as far as I know, between this and the Royal Peltasts I find the last one better for a multi-faction unit.


    3)Yes like you say the companion are pretty easy to introduce to the mod, Already send it to your email.

    4)Well I can't promise to make ALL the merc units, because they are a lot but I can try to make as most as I can, its more than sometimes my real life issues can take a bit more of my free time.
    And regarding this, what colour you have in mind for the merc units?


    P.S: Almost forgot, I also made some new banners for Pontus and Egypt (all this modifications are from my personal collection)


    (Pontus is influenced on the Rome TW 2 banner)

    Cheers~ -Asukav

  5. #5

    Default Re: Which new units should we add?

    3.) Thanks for the Pontic Companions. They look great and are already in place.

    1.) Now regarding the Royal Peltasts:
    The warriors in your pictures are armed with a thrusting spear.
    But usually peltasts, as described by Xenophon, had javelins and swords, and that is how RTW has it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltast
    There is some doubt about the Iphicratean reformed peltasts and there may have been exceptions, but generally we should stick to it.
    Moreover, the type greek_heavy_peltast_merc has javelins as first and swords as secondary weapon, so we couldn't implement those different peltast there.

    However, the Wikipedia article mentions another unit that might match what you intend: The (Macedonian) Hypaspists.
    It's not totally clear how they worked, but probably they were light spearmen, used at the flanks of the line, and able to fight with swords as secondary weapon.
    I have intorduced them two weeks ago, so they will definitely be in version 2.1.
    Currently they are enabled for macedon, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, seleucid, egypt.
    We could add them for pontus and that would give you the type, only under another, but more historic name.
    So if you agree, we'll have the Royal Peltasts for Pontus, but we'll name them Hypaspists.
    You can send me the Pontus files and even the others. I'll compare them with the ones I created and use the better variant.

    2.) The Agrianians were probably a kind of elite hypaspists or peltasts. I'm still thinking about it and I'll let you know if there are any changes.
    Anyway, here is our current description:
    Expert at Hiding in Forests\nCan Hide in Long Grass\nSapping Ability\n\nAgrianian Javelinmen are Paionian elite peltasts from the valleys and
    mountains north of Pella. These are crack javelin throwers, a unit with one of the longest traditions in the Macedonian army. During Alexander's
    campaign in Asia they were highly appreciated, and every time the great king dispatched a flying column, the Agrianians were always included. This is
    why Alexander's successors know well about their value and will always try to include them in their armies.\n\n
    Being not only skirmishers, but also a distinguished unit of the light infantry, the Agriarians often form up with the hypaspists battalion and the
    companion cavalry on the right wing of the battle line. They are expert fighters in mountainous terrain where the phalanx is impracticable. Since
    speed and mobility is their best resource, they prefer to fight light, carrying only a bundle of javelins, but no armour or helmets and perhaps not
    even shields.

    4.) Regarding the mercenaries: You don't need to make any promise. Take your time and do what you can. The current mercenaries are not so bad after all, and if you improve only a third or whatever it be the rest can stay in place for a while.
    Regarding the colors: I'd like to have the new mercenaries with no specific color at all. Just realistic colors. When its leather, it should be leather, when its cloth, it should be something adequate in use in the specific area. That is, a Thracian might also conserve some green, he might add some light blue, like the Thracian faction, but the overall impression should be much more vivid. EB or RS have many colorful units where you couldn't tell the specific color, and this is the goal I'd like to reach by and by. To see an example you may have a look at the Bithynian Snake Hurlers. They still have a little green on the shields, but there are several other colors. You can start with something like that, but in the long run there is no necessity at all to conserve green as a distinctive color for the mercenaries. I'd say their distinctive trait should be that they have no specific or unique color, but the overall impression should be generally more colorful and vivid than faction units.

    5.) You have posted two buttons, but I'd really like to see the banners. I'm always interested in new banners, as there are several occasions where you can add secondary banners in the game. I think each faction has at least two bannerwearers and there are two more banners on the city walls. So this can be used to give more color and variety. Your officers carry one or even two banners and your battlements sport even another one or two. I've done this already for Epirus/Syracuse, where some units carry the Epirote and others the Sicilian banner. So if you like you can send me all your banners and buttons and if there are good vivid colors I'll certainly use them.
    Creator of Rome Total History
    Rome 2 sucks, EB, RS and RTR were yesterday...
    Don't you feel like it's time to move on?
    Explore the ancient world, fight epic battles,
    conquer beautiful queens and princesses...
    Try a new groundbreaking mod:
    Experience Rome Total History!
    Play RTH or wait for Rome 3!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Which new units should we add?

    Here are the Mercenary Snake Hurlers:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Creator of Rome Total History
    Rome 2 sucks, EB, RS and RTR were yesterday...
    Don't you feel like it's time to move on?
    Explore the ancient world, fight epic battles,
    conquer beautiful queens and princesses...
    Try a new groundbreaking mod:
    Experience Rome Total History!
    Play RTH or wait for Rome 3!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Which new units should we add?

    Hey, no problem it's my pleasure to give help for an awesome vanilla-style mod

    1)Indeed, the Royal Peltast that I made are like the new version of hypaspists and from my research about them I think they were more like a corps units that have multi tasks so its possible to make them like that way.
    And yeah, i have no problem for renaming to hypaspists

    2)Sadly I have no doubt that my agrianians don't fit in your mod because of the fail that my unit have in historical accuracy... so dont worry xD

    3)Ok and thanks for understand, I think I have the idea of what you say about more vivid colours and when I have a bit more of creativity I will test some units.Edit(tomorrow)

    4)Ok, I'll send you the banners and the hypaspists/Royal Peltasts and here I post you the example in-game;

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    I had some problems with the bannerman because the reflect way that the texture takes the flag, hope you like it.
    Ignore the walls, it's from another mini-mod of byzantine stuff.

    P.S: I will test with some merc units tomorrow
    Last edited by ~Asukav of Epirus~; October 22, 2015 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Grammar

  8. #8

    Default Re: Which new units should we add?

    Coming soon:

    Lycian Marine Infantry



    These will be available for Macedon, Egypt, Seleucids, Rhodes, Pergamon, Pontus, and Rebels. The shield design is reconstructed from an original archeological artefact found in Lycia.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Creator of Rome Total History
    Rome 2 sucks, EB, RS and RTR were yesterday...
    Don't you feel like it's time to move on?
    Explore the ancient world, fight epic battles,
    conquer beautiful queens and princesses...
    Try a new groundbreaking mod:
    Experience Rome Total History!
    Play RTH or wait for Rome 3!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Which new units should we add?

    Here is how they currently look:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Click image for larger version. 

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    These are Macedonians, but there are also Egyptians, Seleucids, Rhodians, Pontics and more.
    The pictures show different models, though, and those with the crest on the helmet are not working properly with javelins.
    That's why I could need some help with the .cas files to improve the helmet and the curved sword.
    It should be easy. Is there anybody able to lend a hand?
    Last edited by Philadelphos; October 31, 2015 at 06:00 PM.
    Creator of Rome Total History
    Rome 2 sucks, EB, RS and RTR were yesterday...
    Don't you feel like it's time to move on?
    Explore the ancient world, fight epic battles,
    conquer beautiful queens and princesses...
    Try a new groundbreaking mod:
    Experience Rome Total History!
    Play RTH or wait for Rome 3!

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