Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Seljuks of Rum

[Gigantus]

Thank you for returning to a factual, reasoned discussion.

[Nebaki]

We should orient between the time period of those Battles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_K%C3%B6se_Da%C4%9F
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ankara




I guess this should fit more in Armoured Janissary Unit:

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I think this is already posted here but i just repeat it :

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BTW :

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Why not asking M&B community when already using some parts of them ?

[nnnm]

@Zsimmortal
No it don't look like Mongol disks. It's much larger and his armor is much like plated mail with large disk like Kurg armor. Maybe it's an early type or the painter just didn't draw it with full detail. Char-aina means four mirrors and think the paintings look like it
http://www.warfare.altervista.org/Pe...nama-c1494.htm
This from the same Shahnamah and u can see it's clearly not the same as small disks u were talking about


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[zsimmortal]

@Zsimmortal
No it don't look like Mongol disks. It's much larger and his armor is much like plated mail with large disk like Kurg armor. Maybe it's an early type or the painter just didn't draw it with full detail. Char-aina means four mirrors and think the paintings look like it
http://www.warfare.altervista.org/Pe...nama-c1494.htm
This from the same Shahnamah and u can see it's clearly not the same as small disks u were talking about


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You're wasting your time arguing over that case. I can show you a better image of that type of armour.

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Bottom right. I think this is from the Baburnama, depicts a battle of Husayn Mirza Bayqara.

[Danishmend]

By the way this Chichak helmet is from the 15th century apparently (Metropolitan Museum)

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I think this is already posted here but i just repeat it :

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This one is a Mamluk, Ottomans and Mamluks had similar armors though. Sipahis and Mamluks were barely distinguishable from each other.

[Nebaki]

I hope that you guys dont will do this mistake an will label this Ottoman Infantry unit as "Serdengeçti" which is just an Nickname for Volunteers inside the Akinjis (Turkish Raiders/Horse Archers). I already ask the Team from Tsardoms Total War Mod about this Issue and they just claimed that there researchers has studied and are trusted but seems to be not because when you all already using "Osprey Publishing" as the a Source and it seems to be it´s the only source here in Forum & for Creative Assembly - then please use it rightly.

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removed Osprey picture to avoid copyright claim issues - Ltd.

As Armour you should prefer this :

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In my Opinion this would better fit in future updates without loosing the Target or Timescale.

Oh look Gazi on Horse-back:

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removed Osprey picture to avoid copyright claim issues - Ltd.

Maybe some additional Strong Cavalry for Sultanate ?

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removed Osprey picture to avoid copyright claim issues - Ltd.

I don´t how this is historically accurate but it would be an good balance against European Halberds Units:

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This is called Teber which means Halberd in the Ottoman/Turkish language :

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It is aswell in the Coat of Arms and the ones in the Picture doesn´t looks like to not handle it good in Combat or Heavy

But i would rather see the Ottomans as an seperate Faction then in the Rooster of Seljuks - I mean you guys even put Cyprus as a Faction


BTW maybe some units of Ghaznavids would too fit into the Seljuk Rooster because they beat them and not the other way around.

[Fresh_Milk]

I think this mod only goes up to the year 1300-early 1400 and most of your sources are from the 15th century so they will not fit the mod.
Also it is Jerusalem AND Cyprus which was under one banner at the time

[zsimmortal]

I hope that you guys dont will do this mistake an will label this Ottoman Infantry unit as "Serdengeçti" which is just an Nickname for Volunteers inside the Akinjis (Turkish Raiders/Horse Archers). I already ask the Team from Tsardoms Total War Mod about this Issue and they just claimed that there researchers has studied and are trusted but seems to be not because when you all already using "Osprey Publishing" as the a Source and it seems to be it´s the only source here in Forum & for Creative Assembly - then please use it rightly.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As Armour you should prefer this :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In my Opinion this would better fit in future updates without loosing the Target or Timescale.

Oh look Gazi on Horse-back:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Maybe some additional Strong Cavalry for Sultanate ?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I don´t how this is historically accurate but it would be an good balance against European Halberds Units:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is called Teber which means Halberd in the Ottoman/Turkish language :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It is aswell in the Coat of Arms and the ones in the Picture doesn´t looks like to not handle it good in Combat or Heavy

But i would rather see the Ottomans as an seperate Faction then in the Rooster of Seljuks - I mean you guys even put Cyprus as a Faction

Ottomans are an emergent faction and non-playable. The Seljuks collapsed and the Ottomans rose, both share much in terms of cultural heritage. It simply makes sense to make the Sultanate roster similar to the Ottoman army for the later tiers, and as such, for the Ottomans to have those units (like the Yaya, Timariots, Janissaries, Akincilar, etc.).

Cyprus was already a crusader kingdom in 1212, which is why they're on the map.

Please stop posting Osprey publishing. If you are from the region, you probably have access to many great sources of information such as works of art and artifacts. Bring us these things that are harder to gain access to from far away and in a different language. They are much more reliable and not copyrighted.

BTW maybe some units of Ghaznavids would too fit into the Seljuk Rooster because they beat them and not the other way around.

The Ghaznavid power base was exceptionally far from the Sultanate of Rum and very different culturally. From what I know of the Ghaznavid military, there's little that could be brought into the Seljuk roster.

[OutsiderKK]

But i would rather see the Ottomans as an seperate Faction then in the Rooster of Seljuks - I mean you guys even put Cyprus as a Faction


BTW maybe some units of Ghaznavids would too fit into the Seljuk Rooster because they beat them and not the other way around.

There have been arguments consisting of tens of posts, I guess people still are having problem with understanding why the mod is called MKTW 1212.

If mod is called 1212 then that means it will have the factions that existed at the time! ıf modders make non-playable Ottoman faction playable, some other people will want some other factions to be playable. It will be a total chaos! There will be no reason to call the mod MKTW: 1212!!!

[Wallachian]

I hope that you guys dont will do this mistake an will label this Ottoman Infantry unit as "Serdengeçti" which is just an Nickname for Volunteers inside the Akinjis (Turkish Raiders/Horse Archers). I already ask the Team from Tsardoms Total War Mod about this Issue and they just claimed that there researchers has studied and are trusted but seems to be not because when you all already using "Osprey Publishing" as the a Source and it seems to be it´s the only source here in Forum & for Creative Assembly - then please use it rightly.

The Serdengecti are a nickname for volunteers indeed, that is volunteers when attacking and being the vanguard of an assault force. If they survived the assault they would receive rewards and promotions. They are not necessarily part of the Akinjis but they are also infantry special assault force, the first in, a sort of forlorn hope. Please stop accusing people of not being informed when you yourself are not informed and seem to use only wikipedia as a source.

The books 'A Military History of the Ottomans: From Osman to Ataturk' written by a Turkish academic specifically mention the Serdengecti as being part of the Ottoman vanguard attempting to breach the walls of Vienna but being repulsed.

There are plenty of other mentions of this in several books

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[warman222]

I really don't understand why there's been such a demand for the Ottomans for this mod as a starting faction. It's like playing a Charlemagne mod and asking for Normans, they are too far apart in time frame even if the gap isn't that big. The Seljuks will have similar looking units but the Ottomans will be emergent.

[The Shark]

I really don't understand why there's been such a demand for the Ottomans for this mod as a starting faction. It's like playing a Charlemagne mod and asking for Normans, they are too far apart in time frame even if the gap isn't that big. The Seljuks will have similar looking units but the Ottomans will be emergent.

Why is Wallachia Playable it was a part of the Cuman Khanate 1212 ?

Sry for my english.

[zsimmortal]

Why is Wallachia Playable it was a part of the Cuman Khanate 1212 ?

Sry for my english.

This is definitely not the thread for this. There's a map thread in which this discussion is much more appropriate.

[FuzFuzFuz]

Why is Wallachia Playable it was a part of the Cuman Khanate 1212 ?

Sry for my english.

Who said Wallachia was playable? And this thread is not the place to ask that.

[The Shark]

Who said Wallachia was playable? And this thread is not the place to ask that.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Master-Thread (Starting Factions)

Ok sorry for that.

[hessam]

If you guys are as interested as I am in Ottoman/Janissary style units, you're still gonna be playing them, just not in the Ottoman roster, but rather in Rum's.

[The Outsider]

I really don't understand why there's been such a demand for the Ottomans for this mod as a starting faction. It's like playing a Charlemagne mod and asking for Normans, they are too far apart in time frame even if the gap isn't that big. The Seljuks will have similar looking units but the Ottomans will be emergent.

Considering the start date I completely see the point you guys are making. However in my humble opinion I think that there is a great opportunity in the creating a kingdom system that was introduced in the age of Charlemagne campaign. If let say a faction full fills certain objective s like conquering certain regions then they can evolve into their successor, changing names and getting to use their units. I believe that this is currently possible. What do you guys think? It can solve the start date problem and also add greater diversity to game play.

[zsimmortal]

Considering the start date I completely see the point you guys are making. However in my humble opinion I think that there is a great opportunity in the creating a kingdom system that was introduced in the age of Charlemagne campaign. If let say a faction full fills certain objective s like conquering certain regions then they can evolve into their successor, changing names and getting to use their units. I believe that this is currently possible. What do you guys think? It can solve the start date problem and also add greater diversity to game play.

While I get why people want to play the Ottomans and that there might be an opportunity for some neat events and so forth, I'd really like for the mod to remain logical to begin with. The Ottomans are a dynasty, not a kingdom based on geographical denominations (like say, France). Why would the Seljuks (y'know, a dynasty in their own right) become Ottomans because they take, say, Bursa, for example? I get the change to Byzantine empire for the Byzantine successors, but this feels like a huge stretch for a simple aesthetic change, since the Rum roster will be mostly or entirely based on the Ottoman military for t2 and t3.

[Danishmend]

While I get why people want to play the Ottomans and that there might be an opportunity for some neat events and so forth, I'd really like for the mod to remain logical to begin with. The Ottomans are a dynasty, not a kingdom based on geographical denominations (like say, France). Why would the Seljuks (y'know, a dynasty in their own right) become Ottomans because they take, say, Bursa, for example? I get the change to Byzantine empire for the Byzantine successors, but this feels like a huge stretch for a simple aesthetic change, since the Rum roster will be mostly or entirely based on the Ottoman military for t2 and t3.

I agree, both Seljuks and Ottomans were dynasties. It's not even comparable to let's say "Empire of Nicea to Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire".

[Slytacular]

I think we're going to make Wallachia start off as Bazards (Cumans) that become Wallachia after conquering a region that is next to the Black Sea.