Faction Tendencies

**Revan The Great** · November 21, 2006, 06:33 PM

I've been curious as to faction behavior, in-particular some factions seem more likely to honor alliances. I have a very small list here, but i'd like some people to add on to it.

1. I've noticed that the Italians seem to be the biggest backstabbers. I've not had a HRE campaign, or Italian Faction or Hungarian or just about anything Campaign without Venice and Milan constantly betraying my alliance with them, even when I bribe them to keep relations up. Same thing goes to Sicily but on a lesser extent because of their remoteness.

2. I've noticed the Polish have an uncanny piety. In all my experiances they've either been #1 or #2 for most Cardinals in the Colleage of Cardinals. #2 if i'm #1, and #1 if i'm not Catholic. It's rather impressive plus they also seem to honor alliances more then, say, The Italians.

**happyho** · November 21, 2006, 07:03 PM

I would have to agree with your assesment of Milan, as far as Venice is concerned they've always been one of the first eliminated when I played as France and HRE. Now I'm Venice (VH/VH) and Milan is constantly betraying me and violating ceasefires almost as soon as they're in place.

Sicily on the other hand has been my most reliable battlefield ally. Right now Venice (the city) is safe because Sicily broke the siege by attacking the Milanese that were besieging me. Only problem now is that they decided to attack the Pope and my relations with him went from perfect to bad. I now have two turns to decide whether or not to heed the Pope's command to abandon my alliance with Sicily.

Considering the fact I have a reliable rating as far as other factions perceive me I think I will disobey his not-so holiness and continue my support of Sicily by gifting them with cash. Should the Pope anger me enough I will also join in the war against him. Ex-communication should be interesting as it will be the first time for me. What happens when the Pope is gone? Is it like MTW and he'll just dissapear for a while then pop-up at some random time?

**Hedniskhjäertad** · November 21, 2006, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Revan The Great

I've been curious as to faction behavior, in-particular some factions seem more likely to honor alliances. I have a very small list here, but i'd like some people to add on to it.

1. I've noticed that the Italians seem to be the biggest backstabbers. I've not had a HRE campaign, or Italian Faction or Hungarian or just about anything Campaign without Venice and Milan constantly betraying my alliance with them, even when I bribe them to keep relations up. Same thing goes to Sicily but on a lesser extent because of their remoteness.

2. I've noticed the Polish have an uncanny piety. In all my experiances they've either been #1 or #2 for most Cardinals in the Colleage of Cardinals. #2 if i'm #1, and #1 if i'm not Catholic. It's rather impressive plus they also seem to honor alliances more then, say, The Italians.

1. I must agree. The Italians seem to be quite... dumb sometimes. On my English game, i had conquered all france and a few HRE provinces (That were under control of the danes). And Milan had only 3 cities, then they backstab ME, get excomunicated and a crusade to Genoa. Talk about greed.

2. Yes, thats because the AI sends their Polish priests to eastern europe, and those places are great for priests, because of the low catholicism. About the fact that they honor alliances, it seems that it's because they are almost always busy with Hungary & Venice.

**Ahiga** · November 21, 2006, 09:14 PM

I can chime the same for the Italians. The Venetians have always attacked me, whether as hungary or as Sicily. I am well expecting to play the turks, and then to find a bunch of wayward Venetians attacking me in Baghdad.

**theblitz** · November 21, 2006, 11:26 PM

Considering the fact I have a reliable rating as far as other factions perceive me I think I will disobey his not-so holiness and continue my support of Sicily by gifting them with cash. Should the Pope anger me enough I will also join in the war against him. Ex-communication should be interesting as it will be the first time for me. What happens when the Pope is gone? Is it like MTW and he'll just dissapear for a while then pop-up at some random time?

No, the Pope sticks around, and if you do end up attacking him, watchout, you may find yourself on the wrong end of a crusade... or worse... an inquisition.

**Tovi** · November 22, 2006, 12:35 AM

Playing France, i'm at war with all neighbours (plus Venice, Moors, Egypt and Mongols) but Milan, who's still my ally.

**bjeil** · November 22, 2006, 02:11 AM

This is what i dislike the most about the game. I think diplomacy seems way too random. Most allies wont honor an alliance, they'll just backstab you the first chance they get for no reason what-so-ever.

In my France-campaign im at war with all of my neighbours. HRE, Milan, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Venice. I kicked England off the continent pretty quick and they seem content to stay on their island with 5-6 full stacks (!), making no attempt on naval landings (bug?).

My only allies are the Moors and the Papal States. Ive never shared a border with the Moors, and they're also at war with Spain, so i can understand that they havent attacked me yet. Ive been paying continuous tribute to the pope for a century now, so he's happy.

I tried staying friends with Denmark and Venice. I also tried getting a cease-fire with Spain and Portugal so i could focus on annihilating HRE and Milan. I took Genoa and Milano, so Milan was out of the picture, but then Venice attacked me (ofc!). I can understand their war-declaration, seing as the game-designers made it impossible to stay friends with a neighbour... Now im at war with feckin everyone, and i must say im getting tired of the continuous strugle to fight off foes. Ive now given up on the diplomacy and gone gung-ho, but i dont like it.

As a conclusion i think the diplomacy part of the game is lacking. There seems to be no coherence in the AI-decisions, they just do something random. Like the roll of a dice. Will they abandon our alliance just to get the sweet, sweet reward of having blockaded my port for 1 turn, or woot?

**crazyj** · November 22, 2006, 02:25 AM

The French seem to assassinate with great success...just cuz they can't win a fair fight.

**Jabberdau** · November 22, 2006, 04:42 AM

It seems clear that once modding tools are availible, we would need to look into exactly how the diplomacy works. I think one should think alot about making alliances. Like "do we have a the same enemy?" or "are they at war with someone I am going to declare war on". I think that if youre ally is getting their but kicked, they wont take lightly if you just stand by and do nothing. Also military strenght is ALWAYS never to be underestimated.
I don´t have the game yet, but this is definately one thing I will take a look into.

**Inhuman One** · November 22, 2006, 04:05 AM

you are not part of the family so they want you taken care of. be carefull, your general might find the head of his own horse in his bed one day.

**Kopijeger** · November 22, 2006, 04:59 AM

I find it irritating that the AI will often start a war by out of the blue begin blockade a port, without following up with a land invasion. Which gives the player ample time to raise an army and march into their lands.

**Wurfspiess** · November 22, 2006, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Kopijeger

I find it irritating that the AI will often start a war by out of the blue begin blockade a port, without following up with a land invasion. Which gives the player ample time to raise an army and march into their lands.

I strongly agree here
however the AI has done this since ships where introduced in the TW series....sadly

**Mylae** · November 22, 2006, 05:32 AM

read an history book. since italian states were not so powerful or so big, and in fact divised and in war each other, they have experienced a practice of backstabbing, as Machiavelli put it as the better policy for such states. they manage to survive for centuries between hapsburg growing power, holy roman empire, france, spain, turks and themselves too

**Flavius Nevitta** · November 22, 2006, 05:41 AM

Well, I think this is a very nice feature. wasn't it Napoleon who said that the Italians only end a war on the side they started on if they switch sides twice?

PS: just kidding

**woosy** · November 22, 2006, 02:59 PM

in my campaign as the english ive noticed that the portugese are very gd in honouring their alliances, although i accidentally ended it

, also i find the enemy attacks u when it thinks you are vulnerable, i have had the french, milanese, danes and hre all attack me at once, when i looked at the diplomacy menu they were all allied with each other, rather good ai there i think. I decided to focus on france and now i have subdued it i had the danes and hre sueing for peace and then fighting amongst themselves, milan still proves to be stubborn and will not accept a ceasefire and the french are down to marseilles which is under siege by my forces

**Valiant.x** · November 22, 2006, 03:01 PM

portugal, england and scotland seem to be okay. but france and venice are buggers

**munrock** · November 22, 2006, 08:00 PM

If you want to work with Italian factions you have to treat them like Italian factions. Don't trust them. If they're ever in a position to benefit from backstabbing you they'll do it. You have to always be in a position to punish them severely.

Poland has massive piety because they expand into Orthodox rebel settlements, so their priests gain a lot of piety form converting. Hungary don't do it so much because Cathecism is more prevalant and they come into conflict faster. The same applies to Spain/Portugal. If either of the Iberian factions becomes dominant and starts to expand into Africa, then they own the Papacy.

I once saw a Heretic on Corsica while it was in Rebel control. For the whole lifetime of that heretic I could send priests to the Island and they'd be promoted to Cardinals as soon as one died! I was actually sad to see him go...

**munrock** · November 22, 2006, 08:05 PM

If you want to work with Italian factions you have to treat them like Italian factions. Don't trust them. If they're ever in a position to benefit from backstabbing you they'll do it. You have to always be in a position to punish them severely.

Poland has massive piety because they expand into Orthodox rebel settlements, so their priests gain a lot of piety form converting. Hungary don't do it so much because Cathecism is more prevalant and they come into conflict faster. The same applies to Spain/Portugal. If either of the Iberian factions becomes dominant and starts to expand into Africa, then they own the Papacy.

I once saw a Heretic on Corsica while it was in Rebel control. For the whole lifetime of that heretic I could send priests to the Island and they'd be promoted to Cardinals as soon as one died! I was actually sad to see him go...