[Levies] How do you use them?

[QuintusSertorius]

This is a sort of straw poll, I'm curious what people do with them.

Levies are a vital component of every faction's roster - though not all of them are complete enough to feature all those that they should. Indeed a fair amount of the units we're adding for the autumn release are those missing levies. For example the Celtic, Thracian, Indian and Eastern rosters are all gaining new, or properly realised levy units that will expand out their base.

I say base, because as far as I'm concerned, every roster (unless they're a nomadic steppe faction) should have basic spearmen, javelineers, slingers and archers available to them, either as individual units or combined into a smaller number. These are almost always units with no armour and rudimentary weapons. They form the first tier of units and should be the most plentiful. Next up are the semi-professionals and more ordered militia; then professionals; and lastly veterans and elites. I imagine a pyramid with ever-decreasing numbers as you increase in quality. As I expand recruitment to incorporate these units, the better quality ones will get less abundant to compensate, so to a degree everyone is going to have to get used to them being a feature.

So the question is this; how do you currently use levies? Are they part of your regular armies? Or just for garrisons? Or do you avoid recruiting them altogether?

[Kravixon01]

I use them as garrison troops. When I have other options (ie the cash and the recruitment ability), I pack my armies with better soldiers.

However, in the very beginning of the game they see a little bit more action. As the game progresses, sometimes I'll trow in some levies and/or local troops just for variety, even if I can afford better troops.

[isa0005]

Not that I'm confidant that my response means much but eh...

Like Kravixon01 I use them as garrison troops, particularly for strategically and economically valuable settlements, while I do garrison my cities with stronger troops where I can, I generally find that by the time an enemy army gets to these cities they are worn down by whatever I have on hand to throw at them, as such these levy contingents are usually sufficient to take on whats left of the invading force. Early game, levies actually form the body of my main armies as they a cheap and mobile, they are the soldiers I use to establish my self in the region and give me that chance to get my economy going to support more lethal, well protected, well trained professional soldiers. Later in the game I tend to use them as boarder guards, putting them in those little mountain passes, water crossings and such. In this way I utilize them as a delaying force, particularly if I am faced with superior numbers or generally stronger enemies. This allows me the time to gather up my more professional units, whilst also acting as a deterrent to smaller factions around me. By the time we reach the late game period, most of my armies consists of professionals, veterans and elite units, levies really only used in back water territories, emergency reinforcement in case of invasion and as back ups if my stronger armies are whittled down that they could not fight proficiently on their own.

That's my 10 cents! Hope it helps

[Voice of Treason]

(because of pre-established Empires, Veteran AI starting Generals and instantaneous Mercenary armies etc, at this 2.04 juncture)

I inevitably end up having to "git thar fustest with the mostest"...

...which usually means the "bestest recruited the quickest," Y'all !

[adun12345]

It depends on what faction I am playing.

With some of the cavalry factions (i.e., Armenia, Baktria), I end up playing primarily with bodyguard armies; I use levies for garrison and siege work.

With more infantry oriented factions, I do usually mix levies into my army. For example, as the Sweboz I would usually have a main infantry force that was 1/3 bodyguards, 1/3 spear warriors, and 1/3 spear levies, arranged in a three-line block. As Pergamon, I used levies for city garrison, and kept a few high-quality native units in garrisons for homeland defense, but tried to use mostly mercenaries for my overseas wars.

But usually I employ levies as skirmishers to screen my main force. I try to avoid using levy melee troops in main combat, because they get slaughtered pretty quickly.

[Mantaprey]

I see levies as;
skirmishers -most value
Melee - least value
city guard - cheapest option
large numbers to support more excellent units -more available and larger pool.

The more income I have the less melee levies I use. In the beginning my armies are like the pyramid you described because the availability and price keep it that shape. If i get comfortable income I only need them as skirmishers (1/3 of an army) and city guard, i use the better equipped units such as Bataroi, Hoplites, Scutari or Retukenoi. This happens when i have about maybe 3+ profitable regions (high level of size, mines, farm land, ports, ect)

After playing the Lougiones I'm really starting to like melee levies a lot more now. With a very tight budget they really did save the day more than once.

[xHolyCrusader]

- no idea how this post ended up here -

[Draewn]

I like being forced to use levies, if that makes any sense? Ideally for me, there are never enough regular troops to suffice. Always, there's a need for common folk, or people of allied regions, or other less than ideal but better than the alternative troops making up part of every army, and I support every tweak to recruitment pools to ensure this.

[rovert]

Depends on the Levies , i like having some Levy (AOR) troops for the enemy to work through , i would say the Libyan Levy's are the best i always have lots of Libyan Spear & Skirmishers in the army as Carthage.
But as for making recruitment higher for skirmishers is bad but spear levies & what not is good , Rome gets killed everytime atm because of to much levy skirmisher recruitment , so for spear levy & less skirmish levy.

[Rad]

Early WW2 Soviet tactics work for me.

Ни шагу назад!

I like factions with dependable cheap units, because economy can be annoying. Worrying about money is a real life thing, it shouldn't haunt me in my games
Ofc I use higher tier units when needed...

[Sylon]

Levies. Levies everywhere- is my usual play style in Total War games. I haven't played a faction in EBII with a proper levy-regular-elite balance yet, though. The Boii (my first game) lacked a full levy roster, while the Massylii just didn't have much in the way of decent regulars or elites.

[Ballpoint202]

Garrisons are very important and so is money, so garrison duty is usually the priority for the cheapest-per-man units.

[QuintusSertorius]

As I said in the OP, levies will become more prevalent as the units are done. The Celtic and Indian rosters in particular will be getting two new units each slotted into the bottom of their rosters, which will naturally push the others up (and out in terms of availability).

[torzsoktamas]

As I said in the OP, levies will become more prevalent as the units are done. The Celtic and Indian rosters in particular will be getting two new units each slotted into the bottom of their rosters, which will naturally push the others up (and out in terms of availability).

Isn't the present indian spear unit basicly a levy?I mean they are so weak statwise already.

[Sylon]

Isn't the present indian spear unit basicly a levy?I mean they are so weak statwise already.

Indian Spearmen are levies, yes. However, they lack levy slingers and skirmishers, which they will be getting in the 2nd release.

[rovert]

right now there is a serious lack of (AOR) type levy troops , as with the Allied building the recruitment on those need to be upped , getting the 3 2 3 or w/e it is and than nothing for 60 turns is a bit silly (Ilyrian Hoplite) (Libyan Spearman) (Iberi Catrerati) (The Gallic Spear guy) all these types should be plentiful .

[QuintusSertorius]

Indian Spearmen are levies, yes. However, they lack levy slingers and skirmishers, which they will be getting in the 2nd release.

The distinction is that Indian Spearmen are urban levies, where the slingers and javelineers are tribal levies. Just as the Swordsmen are tribal professionals, and the macemen urban professionals.

right now there is a serious lack of (AOR) type levy troops , as with the Allied building the recruitment on those need to be upped , getting the 3 2 3 or w/e it is and than nothing for 60 turns is a bit silly (Ilyrian Hoplite) (Libyan Spearman) (Iberi Catrerati) (The Gallic Spear guy) all these types should be plentiful .

Recruit pools for Allied Governments aren't going up. They'll just get more variety. The Celtic one is the one I'm most keen to alter, since it only has two levies in there and offers elite infantry (Argoi) right away.

[excubitor]

im trying to play as close to history as possible,so considering that 80% of armies of the mods period where actually levies i use them to form the bulk of my armies.
when playing as the ptolemies for example i keep a small campaign army near the capital consiting of the various guard units plus some mercenaries,for garrsion units i use mercenaries and small numbers of levies and profesional troops if locally available.
if campaign to conquer new lands or reclaim lost ones is imminent,my small army near the capital gets stiffined by local levies as it passes through provinces.

[Doulkus Pontikus]

In my Pontic campaign I used levies up until the reforms, due to lack of any serious infantry option.
So units like Pontic Doryphoroi, Katpatuka infantry and archers and euzonoi saw A LOT of action.
In my other campaigns I only used levies for garrison, so IMO their greatest stat is "free upkeep".

[Primative1]

I use them to bulk out my stacks early on and then as garrison troops when I can afford better in my field armies.