Sending an army into foreign territories without being granted military access...

[AeroEngie]

Should be considered an act of war.

I'm tired of having dubious allies and neutral states invade my lands with the intent to siege my cities. If I dont want to lose favor among other countries or the Papacy, I have to wait for them to attack me before I can remove them.

But on the other hand, if one of my armies grazes the tip of a foreign territory, my relations with those people deteriorate.

CA should make the military access mean something to both the player and the AI. As it is, the computer has no reason to request or abide by it.

[Beld]

I agree.

Atleast make their movement across the territory really really slow or something.

I'm all for giving the AI some benifit of the doubt, but this has bugged me since RTW.

It wasn't AS bad then though, because you could get away with it yourself, to a greater degree than now.

[Ketzerfreund]

In Rome-TW I have been successful with establishing military access for both sides of an alliance only once throughout the years I've played. And I got the game shortly after release...
It's hopeless... In that respect, I fear that nothing has changed...

-Der Ketzerfreund.

[Vor]

I never once got given military access in RTW.

[Templer]

I usually have to give the faction large sums of money to get military access in RTW.

[Coey]

Military Access? pfff... My armies require no treaty to go forth and kick ass!

[Spartan156]

Yea!

[Cawyn]

I've picked up the habit of encircling those armies on my territory with peasant units. Want your soldiers back? Better declare war then.

[shadyrome]

to be honest i think they should make it like this, once u agree with alliance u should grant miltary access

[AeroEngie]

to be honest i think they should make it like this, once u agree with alliance u should grant miltary access

But that wouldnt do anything. Your "allies" would still send units into your territory and siege your cities whenever they want.

I should be able to decide who I trust enough to let into my lands... and what price they have to pay to cross.

I'm playing as Venice (VH/VH) right now and I have military access with 2 of my allies. I gave 5999 florins to France for military access and they 'happily accepted'. Sicily granted me military access for 'map information' and I think the message I received was 'readily accepted'. They were undersiege by Milan at the time and I raised the siege by attacking Milan's besieging force.

You must be allied with the faction first and if you are well perceived by them and have a good reputation with other factions you will have a better chance of success, also sending a good diplomat helps. If however you are constantly stabbing people in the back and violating your neighbors borders or breaking treaties, don't expect the faction you contacted to be happy about having one of your armies in their territories.

Ridiculous to expect a foreign power to be willing to just let you bring your armies into their lands without giving something in return. Build diplomatic ties and good relations first, then you may get your access. Also look at how generous your offer is, if it is 'demanding' or 'very demanding' don't expect them to agree. If they do happen to agree, your relations with them will likely worsen, only makes sense if you think about it.

I think you misunderstood me. I dont like the fact that other factions never need to request access to my land and frequently send troops into it without any penalty. Many times, they are setting up for an assault and I have no [politically viable] way to get them out without having to wait for them to attack me.

Disagree. Nothing stopping you from lowering your relationship with them into the pits. Note who crosses your border, then attack them, if you like. Nothing like having the freedom to access NI (Natural Intelligence), right?

In fact you have a huge advantage here... the AI doesn't get to even know that your relationship with them has deteriorated at all... at least they tell you.

But what if I dont want to go to start an offensive war? Or what if we have a mutual ally (Pope) that objects to me having troops in a foreign state? The computer has a strategic advantage by being able to do what it wants without being subjected to the same political penalties that the player has to deal with. We have this "Military Access" treaty that no one but the player has to abide by. Entering foreign lands should be interpreted as an act of aggression by both the player (like it somewhat is already) and CPU.

[OG Grenadier]

Well said dear fellow.

[happyho]

I'm playing as Venice (VH/VH) right now and I have military access with 2 of my allies. I gave 5999 florins to France for military access and they 'happily accepted'. Sicily granted me military access for 'map information' and I think the message I received was 'readily accepted'. They were undersiege by Milan at the time and I raised the siege by attacking Milan's besieging force.

You must be allied with the faction first and if you are well perceived by them and have a good reputation with other factions you will have a better chance of success, also sending a good diplomat helps. If however you are constantly stabbing people in the back and violating your neighbors borders or breaking treaties, don't expect the faction you contacted to be happy about having one of your armies in their territories.

Ridiculous to expect a foreign power to be willing to just let you bring your armies into their lands without giving something in return. Build diplomatic ties and good relations first, then you may get your access. Also look at how generous your offer is, if it is 'demanding' or 'very demanding' don't expect them to agree. If they do happen to agree, your relations with them will likely worsen, only makes sense if you think about it.

[The Border Reiver]

I agree with aero engie military access should mean something, either with the transgression trigger, or by adding another element to the diplomacy...saying "please remove your troops from my lands".

Military access worked perfectly in RTW & BI if you worked the AI correctly, and once agin it works fine in MTW2.

Think about military access like this. What kind of king will allow a fully armed international army to march through his lands, eating his produce?

Would you as a nations leader not find it a little disconcerting if you only had a marginal alliance? And moreover, would you not think it a little strange if a marginal ally gave you military access to his lands and wanted nothing in return?

The diplomacy works as it should in this game, it could have things added to it I agree, but it works nonetheless.

[Juggernaut]

I agree with aero engie military access should mean something, either with the transgression trigger, or by adding another element to the diplomacy...saying "please remove your troops from my lands".

Military access worked perfectly in RTW & BI if you worked the AI correctly, and once agin it works fine in MTW2.

Think about military access like this. What kind of king will allow a fully armed international army to march through his lands, eating his produce?

Would you as a nations leader not find it a little disconcerting if you only had a marginal alliance? And moreover, would you not think it a little strange if a marginal ally gave you military access to his lands and wanted nothing in return?

The diplomacy works as it should in this game, it could have things added to it I agree, but it works nonetheless.

Problem here is that the allied AI who DOESN'T have millitary access to you are marching into your lands anyway.

[HorseArcher]

Problem here is that the allied AI who DOESN'T have millitary access to you are marching into your lands anyway.

Not just that, but at least I want to see one AI faction asking me for military access.

Or for hostile entry, the Pope should have some saying to it, as well as my allies.

[sabremookie]

I agree. This is one of the biggest flaws in the game. Right now I have a French Army camped outside my castle. It has 15 units of soldiers. I am on turn 20 of my campaign. They just asked me to give them 50 florins for 2 turns of they will attack. I called their bluff, but they did not attack.

So now they are just camped there and I cannot do anything about it!!

Argh! In medieval times if the French had marched an army up to an English castle it would have been "total war".

And then if they threatened to attack!

But no, now I sit there staring at them while they manuever other units to attack me! This is BS!!!!!!!!

[The Border Reiver]

Yes I agree, it would be nice for the AI to ask before marching on your lands.

[dearmad]

Should be considered an act of war.

I'm tired of having dubious allies and neutral states invade my lands with the intent to siege my cities. If I dont want to lose favor among other countries or the Papacy, I have to wait for them to attack me before I can remove them.

But on the other hand, if one of my armies grazes the tip of a foreign territory, my relations with those people deteriorate.

CA should make the military access mean something to both the player and the AI. As it is, the computer has no reason to request or abide by it.

Disagree. Nothing stopping you from lowering your relationship with them into the pits. Note who crosses your border, then attack them, if you like. Nothing like having the freedom to access NI (Natural Intelligence), right?

In fact you have a huge advantage here... the AI doesn't get to even know that your relationship with them has deteriorated at all... at least they tell you.

[Ambrosius]

its not so much that the AI will waltz all over your lands without military access, its that they get NO PENALTY.

if you continually cross AI lands, your relations with them will drop right down to abysmal, and you start to lose favor with the pope.
the AI? they can do anyting they want, even blockade all your goddamn ports, and still stay at 100% standing with the pope. its absolutely rediculous... i was playing a milan campaign and venice and HRE blockaded all my ports. i couldnt do a damned thing about it without losing all my papal standing and being excommunicated.

blocakding someones port or sieging someones city should result in excommunication for the AI. its absolute BS that it doesnt, and they are free to #%@$ with your trade all they like and you cant do anything about it.

[Sher Khan]

The way I see it, I don't think it's that big an issue. See, the level's of relationship between two countries (Abysmal-Perfect) simply mark how friendly the AI is towards the player. Obviously, a good ally won't try to march over your lands, and if he does, he either has a good reason (chasing an enemy) or intends to break his alliance and attack your country.

We, being human players, don't require labels like 'Abysmal' for how we feel towards a nation. So, it's totally up to the player to decide what action to take.


In short: if you see an army on your lands, you get ticked off. This is the equivalent of the 'transgression' message the AI will send you. Of course, this means nothing unless the AI decides to do something diplomatically by breaking ties, or by directly attacking you.

Realise, you too can do the same. If you see an allied army on your lands, but you feel that it has no business there, they've already made a transgression in your point of view, and you, the player, will act accordingly. Just like the AI, you would have your diplomat ask the AI to break the alliance or ceasefire aggreement, taking you two back to neutral. After that, you're free to become the aggressor against nations without looking like a backstabber to other nations.

Take, for example, my Turkish campaign. The Byzantines, Egpytians, Venitians, and Russians are all my allies at the start. However, Constantinople backstabs me and launches a surprise attack on a small stack that's besieging some rebels. I promptly annihilate them, take the castle, then divert all attention to crushing the low-life, backstabbing scum. After I push them off of Anatolia, I use my spies to search out their activities and I send small skirmishing armies to hunt down Byzantine forces that are attacking my friends. This raises my reputation with other nations (I now have a military access treaty with Russia) and I push back the Greeks to Durazzo.

Next, Egypt decides the Levant is not enough in their greedy conquest and starts moving armies over my borders, clearly with the intent to 'enjoy my lands and my women.' I immediately have my diplomat break our alliance and launch a pre-emptive strike. My reputation never suffers. In fact, the French and Portugese are now my new allies, replacing the perfidious Byzantines and the slimy Egyptians.

Some 200 turns later, I have yet to have anything but perfect relations with Russia. While keeping rebel towns as buffer zones between us, we respect each other's territories and crush our mutual foes. I periodically send them a few florins, and they return the favor. I even feel comfortable giving them military access to my lands (they gave me that right earlier). Now, after centuries have passed, I've never known a better ally than Russia. They never attack me, or do anything to piss me off. I send stacks their direction to help fight the Danes and Polish, and they sent me a few armies to help in the wars against the HRE and Milan.



This is, of course, just a sample of what you can do with good diplomacy. I may just be lucky of course. Still, I've never seen a better AI ally than my Russian friends. We even share family members now (and princesses ).