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Thread: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

  1. #21
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    3 things:
    How was your reputation as Portugal and how is it as Aragon?
    Did the Portugese general have the same traits as the Aragonese one?
    In both campaigns, does the settlement have exactly the same buildings?

    That all I can think about to explain the reason for now
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  2. #22

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    In short: No it's not faction specific. It depends on your factionleader, ruling generals, garrison, buildings, etc. as lifth said. Not on the faction.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    Have just started a new Portuguese campaign and am having this issue again.

    Specifically I have captured and exterminated issibilya, fully garrisoned, destroyed all population buildings, and before I can build a church+barracks the happiness is down to 70%.

    I wonder if it is because it is early in the game, and the units are weak? Is the garrison bonus calculated by unit stats? Meaning that upgraded units would have more if an pact?

    I captured it with militia but have since replaced half of that with superior/elite mercenaries. That plus low taxes, daily races, and I'm at 80% happiness.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    Quote Originally Posted by FatRod View Post
    Have just started a new Portuguese campaign and am having this issue again.

    Specifically I have captured and exterminated issibilya, fully garrisoned, destroyed all population buildings, and before I can build a church+barracks the happiness is down to 70%.

    I wonder if it is because it is early in the game, and the units are weak? Is the garrison bonus calculated by unit stats? Meaning that upgraded units would have more if an pact?

    I captured it with militia but have since replaced half of that with superior/elite mercenaries. That plus low taxes, daily races, and I'm at 80% happiness.
    I am almost sure garrison bonus is calculated by the total number of troops, not by stats nor units.

    It is possible that an enemy spy got inside, hire spies too and place them in that settlement to see if that's the case.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    Can spies do anything other than destroy buildings tho? I'd notice if they were doing that. They don't lower happiness just from being there do they?

  6. #26

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    Yep, that's what they do. Spies in a (enemy)city greatly increases unrest.
    Only assassins can damage buildings.
    Having spies of your own in your city helps prevent hostile spies/assassins enter and do damage.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    I don't think public order is that much of an issue anymore. For enemy capitals, you will need a good general and a bit of garrison, a spy or two, perhaps gallows or some of the right buildings. Enemy spies do increase unrest quite a bit actually. That's a thing I wanted to tone down a bit but I think it's hardcoded, I couldn't find the numbers anywhere.

    Oh and there is actually a difference between garrisoning peasant units and more advanced units. Peasants/very basic units and low spear militia only gives half the garrison bonus compared to other troops.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    Quote Originally Posted by MWY View Post
    Oh and there is actually a difference between garrisoning peasant units and more advanced units. Peasants/very basic units and low spear militia only gives half the garrison bonus compared to other troops.
    Any idea on how that is calculated MWY? Is it the quality or the stats?

  9. #29

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    For the units its just an attribute included in the peasantish units. Otherwise, only the amount of units garrisoned count.
    For the spys unrest, it's his subterfuge attribute that determines the amount of unrest.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    holding egyptian cities with the crusaders states is almost impossible: every 10 turns or so they rebel and i have to re-exterminate the city... i had tons of priests, spies and decent generals but i could not make it work, any tips? should i destroy buildings like ports and market places that lower law?

  11. #31

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    Yes. Destroy everything that lowers law. Build gallows. Races/Tournes can help aswell. Oh and preparing your invasion with a certain amount of priests to convert the region a bit beforehand helps aswell.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    So I took a look at this, besides the Unrest, some settlements just have a high base farming level meaning more population which means more Squalor, and harder to get garrison effect.

    Interestingly, happiness and especially health increase population growth rate, which also causes problems with Squalor and garrisons. Specifically, while:
    • 10% law (in building description) -> +5% Public order
    • 10% Happiness -> +1.75% PO (after squalor effect)
    • 10% Health -> +1.4% PO (after squalor effect)
    • 1% growth -> -9% PO (after squalor)


    One useful trick is to get someone with plague and then carefully** plague your cities, reducing their population without the need to reconquer etc. Also, going for max Law and minimum population (so as little Happiness, Health, growth as possible) and just putting tons of peasants in to keep it at Very High taxes may also work...

    My campaign amusingly turned into this population control simulator where I starve Italy (destroying farms....) but tax it at Very High forever.

    ** If you can sacrifice some small town or castle, keep some... Diplomats? And just keep on reinfecting it/them with plague then use them to control populations.
    Last edited by Alavaria; June 25, 2016 at 09:56 AM.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Alavaria View Post
    So I took a look at this, besides the Unrest, some settlements just have a high base farming level meaning more population which means more Squalor, and harder to get garrison effect.

    Interestingly, happiness and especially health increase population growth rate, which also causes problems with Squalor and garrisons. Specifically, while:
    • 10% law (in building description) -> +5% Public order
    • 10% Happiness -> +1.75% PO (after squalor effect)
    • 10% Health -> +1.4% PO (after squalor effect)
    • 1% growth -> -0.45% PO (after squalor)


    One useful trick is to get someone with plague and then carefully** plague your cities, reducing their population without the need to reconquer etc. Also, going for max Law and minimum population (so as little Happiness, Health, growth as possible) and just putting tons of peasants in to keep it at Very High taxes may also work...

    My campaign amusingly turned into this population control simulator where I starve Italy (destroying farms....) but tax it at Very High forever.

    ** If you can sacrifice some small town or castle, keep some... Diplomats? And just keep on reinfecting it/them with plague then use them to control populations.
    althrough i have done the thing with the plague i think it's a bad way to play the game, that fact that you have to resort to such things, it's immersion breaking having to nuke your own settlements

    i think when pop gets too big settlements should simply get plague and not rebel, so public health buildings should keep the plague at bay and not the rebelions, it also dosent make sense when a city that is somewhere in the middle of my empire decides to go independent, i mean who in their right mind would rebel if their chance of succes is like 0.000000000000000000000001

  14. #34

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    The plague thing is amusing... I guess. It causes you all sorts of trouble though. However, plaguing enemy settlements well in advance of taking them can help (as does just killing everyone...) though be careful, the AI spies might pick up plague and run around constantly plaguing your side. Which is oddly realistic in terms of blowback though this isn't a biological warfare simulator.

    Also, you don't get any trade from the plagued settlement, which can be quite an income it. And infected troops etc... it's just really bad. Maybe in the security of your heartlands, which shouldn't need it though.


    However it starts to look to me like:
    • 6+ Base farming level: (Potentially lower, as well). Try to have minimal garrison (ie: 1 soldier). Make use of Law (Priority!), Happiness, Health, avoid things that give -Law as Law is worth like 2-3x as much as Happiness/Health. Avoid farming and +population growth, unless you can sustain at max taxes.
    • If you can VH taxes with 0 garrison: Go for it! However, in restricted settings like a Large Town or even City, this might not be possible (also if the city has a high unrest), otherwise
    • Middle ground: you have some tradeoff between a low-pop, law-only garrisoned settlement running higher taxes, or one that has 0 garrison and builds as much Law, Happiness, Health and takes whatever tax level works (if you can't even hold at Low tax, but you can with minimum pop then the choice is clear)


    Now figuring out if you are going for "0 garrison, max building" or "minimum pop, max taxes, Law+garrison only" is the trick
    Last edited by Alavaria; June 22, 2016 at 05:02 PM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    thanks but i just went back to using SS 6.4 settlement mechanics and i am done with, unrest is still something to be careful with but nowhere near like before

  16. #36

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    So do farms increase population on their own? Because that isn't listed in the description.

    If so I will raise all of the farms in my Eastern cities!

  17. #37

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    Quote Originally Posted by FatRod View Post
    So do farms increase population on their own? Because that isn't listed in the description.

    If so I will raise all of the farms in my Eastern cities!
    That bit about increasing farm output does indeed increase population growth and thus population. Check your settlement details: "farm upgrades built". Rather than destroy (since it takes a while to build) just leave them for last when you really are pushing for a settlement upgrade.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    I couldn't handle it, I just edited the settlements xml and lowered the Order Factors for squalor which was the biggest headache for me, turmoil and distance to capital (I'd conquer a city two settlements away from my capital and PO would be around 40% because capital distance which was ridiculous).

    I tried the spies and assassins method, had one huge city with 5 spies and an assassin and full garrison and it still wouldn't lower unrest and would constantly revolt (sacked it three times)


  19. #39
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    There might be something you're missing because you're not that far away unless you're in the steppes or have conquered that settlement from another culture.
    Which faction are you playing?

    Anyway, put a general with high chivalry. Destroy buildings decreasing public order and build the one increasing it. Lower the taxes might also help for the first few turns.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  20. #40
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Lowering unrest on conquered regions

    Quote Originally Posted by ShADoW View Post
    I couldn't handle it, I just edited the settlements xml and lowered the Order Factors for squalor which was the biggest headache for me, turmoil and distance to capital (I'd conquer a city two settlements away from my capital and PO would be around 40% because capital distance which was ridiculous).
    I understand this part slightly differently than Lifthrasir. I understand that "because of squalor, unrest and distatance to capital" you've had that low PO of 40%. If it would have been only because of the distance, then editing PO-squalor wouldn't help (and you say that you did it and it works).
    In my opinion: if such a city has a low PO, it's fully undestandable and legitimate. The game is indeed about keeping unrest in check. Historically, it was extremely difficult to keep cities under control and this factor reflects it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShADoW View Post
    I tried the spies and assassins method, had one huge city with 5 spies and an assassin and full garrison and it still wouldn't lower unrest and would constantly revolt (sacked it three times)
    Afaik: the numbers of spies/assassins doesn't matter. They serve only to deter foreign spies which rouse unrest. So if there're no enemy spies, it's the same if you have 5 or 0 own spies in the settlement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dekhatres View Post
    althrough i have done the thing with the plague i think it's a bad way to play the game, that fact that you have to resort to such things, it's immersion breaking having to nuke your own settlements
    I fully agree. The self-contamination is an obvious exploit of the player, it's completely un-historical, and it's among my home-rules what I don't do (similarily to using console commands, reloading after a botched up battle or changing the code just to make you life easier on something you can't cope with).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dekhatres View Post
    iit also dosent make sense when a city that is somewhere in the middle of my empire decides to go independent, i mean who in their right mind would rebel if their chance of succes is like 0.000000000000000000000001
    This I don't agree. It happened so often in history and so many new factions emerged due to apparently hopless rebellions. Actually, the business of the ruling parties was only to quell such insurgencies, very rarely to conquer other lands. So it's plausible. Also gameplay-wise it's good - it forces the player to keep garrions, which agains is very historical.

    Plagues in general: I think their effects are historically plausible concerning unrest (within the game logic, you need to have some sense of disbelief - see for instance the great Sid Meyers explainations). The plagued citizens are less likely to riot, they're simply ill. I'd rather add some nasty traits be got by the affected generals than changing the mechanisms.

    To my mind: the unrest issue is very well crafted in the SSHIP. It matters and it's very historical, but you still can handle. Well done.
    /(well, I'm saying this after having played over 200 turns with Poland, it may be different for another faction so I may change my mind in future /

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