questions, observations suggestions/possible solutions

[Rad]

I know there's a suggestion thread made into a sticky, but I'd like to start a discussion here and have more people involved rather than the usual 1-2 team members who give a quick and short reply, so I hope you'll pardon me for making a new thread.

First, the questions.

1. How many units do you folks intend to add? I know the approximate number that will enter 2.1, I am asking about the blessed final version.

2. Could you reveal something about the Thracian roster? How many units will it have, and what type? Will Epeiros be able to recruit them if it takes Pella or some other region?
Epeiros is my favorite Hellenistic faction - interesting position, awesome faction leader and an amazing Illyrian unit roster that makes it unique.

Observation.
Camilian Principes have very short spear reach... I'd post a screenshot, but I just had lunch and I am sleepy/lazy to do it. If you want, check for yourselves. I may add a picture later.
Back to the reach issue. That has to do with the fact that they're shown holding the spear mid-shaft. Holding spear mid-shaft is only required with the overhand grip. The Principes are shown using underarm grip, which is less demanding on the body and allows the spear to be held very close to the end of the shaft, giving extra reach. I will not go into the over-underarm debate. Both were used as far as I know.
I own a spear and I can confirm this. Even without the counter weight (sauroter, for example), I can hold the spear shaft quite close to the end if I use underarm grip. If I use overhand, I have to hold it quite close to the middle to get balance.

This is mostly a cosmetic issue, but we're trying to achieve historical accuracy. As a history enthusiast and aspiring reenactor, I feel it's my job to help out however I can, even if it sounds like nagging and nitpicking. I do not know if other underhand grip spear units have this issue, I haven't checked.


Suggestions.
1. Instead of having them physically be in Rome, why not give Roman FMs a "gone to Rome for the elections" trait the turn they have to be present in Rome? They'd have to be in a city to get it, and it would give them -100% movement points to simulate their departure. Maybe some negative management and/or command stuff as well.
I played a short campaign with SPQR, and constantly marching back to Rome was bothersome long before any major expansion. There has to be a a better way.

2. A possible solution to the neverending underhand/overhand grip war. It never really dies out, things just cool down for a while.
Give foot units that have only spears (hoplites, triarii, dacian light phalanx etc) BOTH! Yeah, you read it right, both! Both underhand and overhand grip, one as primary, other as secondary weapon. Make them do equal damage, so there isn't a gameplay difference. If you do that, you'll have a unit which shows mixed use of overhand and underhand grip, which is more accurate and looks better.


I'm done for the moment, may rant some more soon.


Rad

P.S.
Questions for all: How fast does EB2 run? How much do you wait for your turn, how much do battles take to load? Do you play on huge unit settings? My PC is ancient... I'll have to buy a new one soon, so I want to know if a good configuration makes the game smooth.

Rad

[QuintusSertorius]

I can answer your two questions:

1. How many units do you folks intend to add? I know the approximate number that will enter 2.1, I am asking about the blessed final version.

2. Could you reveal something about the Thracian roster? How many units will it have, and what type? Will Epeiros be able to recruit them if it takes Pella or some other region?
Epeiros is my favorite Hellenistic faction - interesting position, awesome faction leader and an amazing Illyrian unit roster that makes it unique.

The planned roster currently has 484 units in it - I think we can safely say we will use the full 500 unit limit by the time EBII is done. We certainly have no shortage of competing concepts for the remaining spaces, and even if the actual total is in movement at any one time as units are removed and others added, we intend to use them all.

You can see the Thracian roster as we intend it, at the moment (and since we're working on it right now, it could change), in the EDU's placeholders:
Thraikian Prodromoi (a medium cavalry type)
Thraikian Hippeis (a lighter, skirmisher type)
Thraikian Peltastai (high-quality skirmisher/medium infantry) - WIP
Thraikian Rhomphaiaphoroi (heavy infantry)
Thraikian Doryphoroi (levy spearman) - WIP
Thraikian Sphendonetai (levy slinger) - done

Epeiros, and indeed Makedonia, KH, Pergamon and the Bosporans will be able to recruit them as regional levies with the appropriate government in Tylis, Byzantion and Nikaia. Obviously the Getai will have access to them in the getai_confed. Any other factions will need an Allied government in those places to get Thracians. Some of those units will also be mercenaries.

Note there are also two units missing from the Illyrian roster at the moment, namely the Thureophoroi and Thorakitai.

[Rad]

Max number of units? Haven't counted how many the game has already, but the job sounds both scary and exciting. Good luck!

Thracian roster sounds like the EB1... Rhomphaiaphoroi are nasty hitters, Peltastai are my favorite unit from there. What about Triballoi and Agrianian assault infantry? The first were Thracians, the second Illyrians with some Thracian influence.
The Area of recruitment sounds very good, but it could include Pella.

Illyrian Thureoporoi and Thorakitai? What will be the difference from the existing spear+javelin Illyrian hoplites... apart from maybe more armor for Thorakitai?

Questions for all: How fast does EB2 run? How much do you wait for your turn, how much do battles take to load? Do you play on huge unit settings? My PC is ancient... I'll have to buy a new one soon, so I want to know if a good configuration makes the game smooth.

[QuintusSertorius]

Max number of units? Haven't counted how many the game has already, but the job sounds both scary and exciting. Good luck!

Thracian roster sounds like the EB1... Rhomphaiaphoroi are nasty hitters, Peltastai are my favorite unit from there. What about Triballoi and Agrianian assault infantry? The first were Thracians, the second Illyrians with some Thracian influence.
The Area of recruitment sounds very good, but it could include Pella.

Illyrian Thureoporoi and Thorakitai? What will be the difference from the existing spear+javelin Illyrian hoplites... apart from maybe more armor for Thorakitai?

With the autumn release, we'll be somewhere in the region of 230 units.

Triballi, Galathraikes and Agrianians are all still planned (though they may not look the same as their EB1 equivalents). There are more Getai units as well.

Pella isn't currently considered part of the hidden_resource thrakia; I'll check what the thoughts are there.

At the very least, the Thureophoroi would have a different javelin (better attack from using an ankyle) and shield, with a different spear attack. The Thorakitai would have a heavy javelin and heavier armour in addition to those changes.

Questions for all: How fast does EB2 run? How much do you wait for your turn, how much do battles take to load? Do you play on huge unit settings? My PC is ancient... I'll have to buy a new one soon, so I want to know if a good configuration makes the game smooth.

For me personally, it takes 3-5 minutes between turns, battles take about 90 seconds to load. I play on Huge Unit settings, with all the graphics turned down, especially things like shadows, which I don't much care about anyway.

[Rad]

With the autumn release, we'll be somewhere in the region of 230 units.

Triballi, Galathraikes and Agrianians are all still planned (though they may not look the same as their EB1 equivalents). There are more Getai units as well.

Pella isn't currently considered part of the hidden_resource thrakia; I'll check what the thoughts are there.

At the very least, the Thureophoroi would have a different javelin (better attack from using an ankyle) and shield, with a different spear attack. The Thorakitai would have a heavy javelin and heavier armour in addition to those changes.



For me personally, it takes 3-5 minutes between turns, battles take about 90 seconds to load. I play on Huge Unit settings, with all the graphics turned down, especially things like shadows, which I don't much care about anyway.

More than double the current number?! WOW! Just wow.

Will the new Illyrians be tied to Hellenistic reforms? Will they replace some current unit (I hope not)?

I haven't timed my turns, but it's approximately equal to yours. I started doing jumping jacks while I wait. Can't hurt.

[z3n]

Keep in mind its also to do with your cpu and hard drive.

I wait significantly less at 30s/10s turn time/load.

[Rad]

Keep in mind its also to do with your cpu and hard drive.

I wait significantly less at 30s/10s turn time/load.

You lucky bastard! What's your configuration?

[Hummer]

Wow, that's quick, mine starts out with 1 minute early campaign, by turn 100, I'm at 3 minutes per turn.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Same here.

SSD.

[paulus]

I like the zero movement points, in a city, to stand for an election. We've discussed several ideas (including, I think, yours) for resolving that particular issue (and maybe one has already been implemented in un-released builds), but it is something we plan to address.

The over-under idea is a fun one and we may think about it, but generally we'll probably prefer to show an alternate weapon or something. But it's a nice idea to chew on!

Thanks for the compliments to the Illyrian roster, and you'll love the additional units we're planning to add to it.

[Rad]

Suggestion: How about NOT throwing the player into debt from the start? I know it's supposed to motivate expansion, but all it does is annoy me and make me blitz. I'd much rather build up my economy and/or army in relative peace than worry about AIMF knocking on my door.

[QuintusSertorius]

Suggestion: How about NOT throwing the player into debt from the start? I know it's supposed to motivate expansion, but all it does is annoy me and make me blitz. I'd much rather build up my economy and/or army in relative peace than worry about AIMF knocking on my door.

Then stop playing on VH campaign difficulty where the AI hates you, and disband units at the start, rather than blitz. The issue here is your own behaviour, which is within your power to change.

[Rad]

That's it, that does it! You brought spite into the play! I'm starting a new VH/VH campaign on huge unit settings... as soon 2.1 comes out... and I get a PC which can handle it.. and I get the free time... oh God, it's never going to happen

[Rad]

Question.
Are some new officer models being made for 2.1?

[Sylon]

Not that I know of. Why do you ask?

[Rad]

Not that I know of. Why do you ask?

Officers add to the "feel" of the unit, they make them look more organised and realistic.

Suggestion.
If able, add more officer units. There could be various officers depending on the unit type and faction ... commander, junior commander, standard bearer, chieftain, champion, musician etc.

P.S. Please remove all mentioning of "studded leather armor" from the Getai unit descriptions, and/or other units. "Studded leather armor" did not exist, it is a fantasy/hollywood creation, fathered by the biker/rocker look, born by low budget costume designers.
Instead, just say leather armor, which did exist

[HaHawk]

1. Instead of having them physically be in Rome, why not give Roman FMs a "gone to Rome for the elections" trait the turn they have to be present in Rome? They'd have to be in a city to get it, and it would give them -100% movement points to simulate their departure. Maybe some negative management and/or command stuff as well.
I played a short campaign with SPQR, and constantly marching back to Rome was bothersome long before any major expansion. There has to be a a better way.

I really hope this is considered and expanded on. Negative management/command (increased unrest?) would be a good trade-off as well; the trait could even be supplemented by an ancillary to represent the "deputy governor" in place of the said FM while he is away in Rome... I wonder how feasible this is? I personally don't mind a little extra micromanagement, but for the majority of players I would imagine that this more streamlined approach could be a welcome change.

[Rad]

Some negative traits, yes. But not too much. I doubt any magistrate would leave a complete idiot to watch things... oh wait, history tells us otherwise xD

To me, the trait looks a lot like the "winter campaign restricted" one, so I think it's doable.

[Rad]

Questions.

Where does one find the province description texts outside of the campaign map? I would like to read them.
Will factions like the Lougiones, Saka and Sarmatians get some love in the new release? They're really short of units atm.

[QuintusSertorius]

Questions.

Where does one find the province description texts outside of the campaign map? I would like to read them.
Will factions like the Lougiones, Saka and Sarmatians get some love in the new release? They're really short of units atm.

They're not easy to read given the format, but they're in the data\text folder, I think in the export_buildings.txt. Or if you look in the data\text\xml folder, there's one called province_descriptions.xml.

The Germanic roster is getting pikemen, and there's also the intent to add Lugi-Balts and Bastarnae. The only new units the Sauromatians will get are the Skythian regionals already previewed; nothing new for the Saka unless we have sudden movement on their cataphracts.