VH/VH SS.4 France Advice

[luckybeaver]

Hi all,

So I'm loving this mod (been playing it for a while) and I'm really struggling with France on VH/VH difficulty. I'm about 60 turns in and I'm basically at war on three fronts with no prospects of that ending anytime soon. At the beginning of the campaign I was able to take Tolouse, Lyon, Dijion and Metz in quick succession from the rebels. Ever since then however, I've been at endless war with Genoa (they want Tolouse), The HRE (they want Metz), and England (it's England). What's more, of the neighbouring factions that I'm not at war with, pretty much all have poor relations with me except Castille and Leon, who I've secured a marriage alliance with.

With wars on three fronts I've found my lines stretched paper thin and I've basically been forced into pulling heroic victories out of my ass every turn just in order to survive. Because of this, I haven't been able to develop a strong economy (I make roughly 2k a turn) which barely keeps me above water with constant retraining and economic/growth building construction. To make matters worse, due to the AI's bonuses on VH/VH, England and the HRE already have Fortresses (Caen and the line of Castles that the HRE get on the western front). As such, I'm not longer facing stacks of levy spears and archers, but rather men at arms, xbows and at least 4-5 mailed knight units (boggles my mind that the AI gets fortresses 60ish turns into a campaign- I've got high chivalry generals in my wooden castles and only now can I upgrade Angers and Bordeaux to castles).

What's more, because I have no money I can't sue for peace and England, HRE and Genoa have no interest in ceasing their hostilities anytime soon. Every time I win a battle I release prisoners, my international rep is Trustworthy and I haven't been the aggressor in any conflicts since the beginning of the campaign, yet everyone thinks I'm scum.

Having said all that, I'm wondering what you SS experts do when you play as France? I've searched for guides but I haven't been able to find ones for VH/VH. What are some general strategies or pieces of advice you may have for me (if any) on how I can salvage this mess? (I had an easier time playing the Crusader States!)

For the curious, I'm running SS with the bugfix compilation, next heir ancillary, RR is on, 2 turns per year and Savage AI.

Thanks for your time guys, cheers!

[Sint]

Which AI are you using?And did you build markets,roads and mines on your first turns in all settlements?How strong is Genoa and how many settlements do they have?

boggles my mind that the AI gets fortresses 60ish turns into a campaig

It's totally possible to do that I made Hamburg a fortress at turn 56 playing as the HRE.And I think a lot of people have done stuff like that even earlier.

Every time I win a battle I release prisoners

Don't?Really stop doing that.Kill them otherwise they will just come back....or ransom them,if they agree you get money if not you kill them=Win.

[luckybeaver]

Using Savage AI, no additional submods besides 2 turns per year, next heir, weaker heretics.

I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure Genoa has Marseilles, Milan, Genoa, and two other settlements (One of Sardinia or Corsica and another father in Italy). They aren't really a threat, they just keep churning out full stacks of Italian spearmen that, even though I can handle with minimal losses, force me to keep forces down south when I could otherwise use those troops/funds from disbanding them to upgrade my citites or support my northern fronts.

I also built roads/mines and markets in all my towns, basically all of my construction has been economic and growth focused.

Releasing prisoners has always done me well in my other campaigns where I use (or try to use) diplomacy. I've found kingdoms way more cooperative with you when you have a good reputation, and it's an easy way to gain full chivalry generals that I can use to increase settlement growth. I should clarify that, when I release prisoners, there aren't that many (I try to kill as many as I can through cav charges and missiles) and the majority of the prisoners I release are infantry that I can mow down with cav in a future battle. When I can get a hefty sum from the prisoners or they are powerful troops that I may struggle against in the future, I usually ransom.

[Sint]

Marseilles, Milan, Genoa, and two other settlements[..]They aren't really a threat, they just keep churning out full stacks of Italian spearmen that,

In that case I would counter attack if you can spare the troops.

Releasing prisoners has always done me well in my other campaigns where I use (or try to use) diplomacy. I've found kingdoms way more cooperative with you when you have a good reputation, and it's an easy way to gain full chivalry generals that I can use to increase settlement growth.

Hmm true but I prefer to have at least have my main General/s be dread based since it wins battles a lot easier and faster in large battles.Regarding your tactics do you use the standard hammer and amboss tactic?Or do you frontally charge?

Does England still have holdings on the continent or do they use ships to invade you?If they send naval invasion stacks it's often easy to just sink them before they land.

Overall if you can defend you can usually counter attack the AI most of the time.You can hold Cities and Castles with far less troops than they need to take them,especially if you kill the general.

I try to play slower in most campaigns ,but in Mods with agressive Ai and on VH it's far easier to just rush the enemy as fast as you can and take their holdings.The only real problem I see is the HRE since they can be a real pain if they are not at war with other factions.I would also try to take some of the HRe fortresses since the AI doesn't defend it's holdings very well.Waiting until they siege you and then sending an army with a balista or catapult to take their 3 unit garrsion fortress in one turn can really cripple the AI,since they often don't respond quickly enough.


PS:Oh and you're playing the early campaign?

[Competizione]

Genoa are s. That pretty much sums up that entire faction.

As for a viable starting strategy with early France:
- Ally with HRE, Scotland and Aragon as early as possible
- Metz, Lyon and Toulouse should be your priorities. Capture Dijon, Antwerp and Rennes if you have the chance. Leave Bruges to Scotland.
- Go full on war with England and Genoa

With Savage AI, starting alliances tend to hold for quite a while. So you'll definitely have 50 turns where you can exclusively focus on dealing with Genoa. To be honest, the easiest way to survive in Europe the first 50 turns is to make an alliance bloc.

[LuckyPistol]

Trade Metz for peace with the HRE, that should really lighten your load. If Scotland isn't at war with England, try to convince them to start one (sometimes works)

It's odd Genoa is giving you trouble and Venice isn't doing anything about it, but all you can really do at this point is hang in there until either England or Genoa gets excommunicated. Alternatively you can call a Crusade and your enemies will sacrifice parts of their invading forces to go on it.

[Boogie Knight]

I've only played France on H/H late campaign, but I can tell you what worked for me. It was really rather simple; ally with everyone behind your neighbours. In my game that meant Scotland, Poland, Venice and Aragon. My main antagonists other than the English (who due to a very early marriage alliance with Scotland, a successful dash for Bruges and them being excommunicated were only ever a minor threat) were the Spanish (Castile & Leon). I was able to ally myself with Aragon fortunately (though as I remember they demanded a hefty sum) to deal with that front. I never properly went to war with the HRE though I'm not sure why; I believe it's because they became embroiled in a war with Denmark early on and suffered a crusade, plus my alliance bloc rather dissuaded them from starting anything overt after that, though we did enjoy a cold war fought with agents. I allied with Venice for a short time as well and between us we drove Genoa from the continent but last time I touched that game my alliance with Venice was starting to look a little shaky, probably because we quickly came to share a border.

I don't know how much of that will help you. As mentioned Crusades can be a life-saver, I think that's what gutted the HRE for me. For that reason I'd advise you to keep on the good side of the pope, make the occasional donation for your sins when you can spare the cash and, insofar as is possible, try to follow his orders. Releasing prisoners is not something I ever do, but having gained that trustworthy reputation you may find it easier to secure alliances. I'd recommend you try Denmark, I'm not sure but they might still occasionally invade England in SS 6.4 and, unlike Norway, they shouldn't invade Scotland (I could be completely wrong on that though...). I hope this helps somewhat.

[k/t]

standard hammer and amboss tactic?

[lolIsuck]

Like Boogie Knight said, the HRE's biggest thread can usually be neutralised with an alliance bloc. I generally ally Denmark, Poland and Venice, they're overall safe options as you generally won't encounter them early in game. They all border the HRE though and if your relations with these nations is good they can be helpfull against the HRE, even if not all decide to go to war with them.

For Genoa, try capturing Marseille, it will make it easier to block Genoese armies and gets you some money upon capture. You may have to scrape together an army but it does decrease the Genoese threat and brings in a few thousand florins to invest in your economy.
I've personally never had much trouble with England. If you kick them off the continent they'll get pretty predictive, landing a stack near Caen every few turns so either leave an army to kick them back into the sea there or build a navy to feed the fish. Alternatively hope for the Norwegians or Danes to invade them or an early incarnation of William Wallace.

The HRE is probably more work as there's not really a way to create a bottleneck that allows you to stop their armies. You'd have to break them or hope they fall out of favour with the Pope.

[Elro]

I often play as France and I usually go that way :&nbsp;<br>- ally with hre / Aragon / Venice early on (usually works), hre first though.&nbsp;<br>- get rid of the English while going for Toulouse / Metz asap. If I can I grab Lyon on the way down&nbsp;<br>- peace with England once I got Caen back and then utterly destroy Genoa. they mostly field crappy spearman so even cavalry is effective.&nbsp;<br><br>Then ususlly I keep allied with Europe and wait / ask for a crusade in Egypt and keep expanding there.&nbsp;<br>Works pretty well for me most of the time.&nbsp;<br><br>Oh and try to get on ERE as fast as possible else they'll streamroll everyone. Usually do it once I'm done with Fatimids&nbsp;<br><br>

[Grabbin_Megroin]

Whenever I play as France I always immediately ally with the HRE, that way I don't have to worry about the Eastern Front and I can focus on England, Genoa, and the Spanish factions. Basically what you gotta do right away is build as many troops (even peasants) as you can right off the bat, and make sure you're using all your generals in your armies as the early heavy cavalry will be very useful. Take Rennes, Caen, and as many rebel provinces as you can, and then move straight on into England before they become powerful.