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Thread: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

  1. #141

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    So. I have been reading over some threads here. Some people seriously think Trump is not a fascistoid moron or they (you?) just "support him" because they consider a Democrat administration could be even worse?
    Yes. And?

  2. #142
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Yes to what?

  3. #143

    Default Re: Obama for Cameron:"Cameron let Libya to become a s***show"

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    Merged due to insufficiency as an OP. ~Iskar

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/barack-obama-says-david-cameron-allowed-libya-to-become-a-s-show-a6923976.html




    A US president using such a language against a UK pm is astonishing. Basically Obama throws the responsibilty for the failure of Libya to Cameron. Right now there are thousands of Arab foreign "volunteers" in Libya ready to fight in case of western intervention. In other words the "best" thing the west can do is a Somalia scenario(a puppet regime depending on western aid and countless terrorists attacking all around the areas including Europe)
    He's right for once. It was Europe that kept lecturing the President on "Responsibility to Protect" civilians from tyrants. But once the dictator is out, Europe has no interest in nation building and creating a stable democracy.

    And he didn't single out anybody. He just casually mentioned that Cameron got busy with other stuff, and Sarkozy lost reelection, so all the people that supported the war wiped their hands off it.

    But what sealed Obama’s fatalistic view was the failure of his administration’s intervention in Libya, in 2011. That intervention was meant to prevent the country’s then-dictator, Muammar Qaddafi, from slaughtering the people of Benghazi, as he was threatening to do. Obama did not want to join the fight; he was counseled by Joe Biden and his first-term secretary of defense Robert Gates, among others, to steer clear. But a strong faction within the national-security team—Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Susan Rice, who was then the ambassador to the United Nations, along with Samantha Power, Ben Rhodes, and Antony Blinken, who was then Biden’s national-security adviser—lobbied hard to protect Benghazi, and prevailed. (Biden, who is acerbic about Clinton’s foreign-policy judgment, has said privately, “Hillary just wants to be Golda Meir.”) American bombs fell, the people of Benghazi were spared from what may or may not have been a massacre, and Qaddafi was captured and executed.

    But Obama says today of the intervention, “It didn’t work.” The U.S., he believes, planned the Libya operation carefully—and yet the country is still a disaster.


    Why, given what seems to be the president’s natural reticence toward getting militarily ensnarled where American national security is not directly at stake, did he accept the recommendation of his more activist advisers to intervene?


    “The social order in Libya has broken down,” Obama said, explaining his thinking at the time. “You have massive protests against Qaddafi. You’ve got tribal divisions inside of Libya. Benghazi is a focal point for the opposition regime. And Qaddafi is marching his army toward Benghazi, and he has said, ‘We will kill them like rats.’


    “Now, option one would be to do nothing, and there were some in my administration who said, as tragic as the Libyan situation may be, it’s not our problem. The way I looked at it was that it would be our problem if, in fact, complete chaos and civil war broke out in Libya. But this is not so at the core of U.S. interests that it makes sense for us to unilaterally strike against the Qaddafi regime. At that point, you’ve got Europe and a number of Gulf countries who despise Qaddafi, or are concerned on a humanitarian basis, who are calling for action. But what has been a habit over the last several decades in these circumstances is people pushing us to act but then showing an unwillingness to put any skin in the game.”


    “Free riders?,” I interjected.


    “Free riders,” he said, and continued. “So what I said at that point was, we should act as part of an international coalition. But because this is not at the core of our interests, we need to get a UN mandate; we need Europeans and Gulf countries to be actively involved in the coalition; we will apply the military capabilities that are unique to us, but we expect others to carry their weight. And we worked with our defense teams to ensure that we could execute a strategy without putting boots on the ground and without a long-term military commitment in Libya.


    “So we actually executed this plan as well as I could have expected: We got a UN mandate, we built a coalition, it cost us $1 billion—which, when it comes to military operations, is very cheap. We averted large-scale civilian casualties, we prevented what almost surely would have been a prolonged and bloody civil conflict. And despite all that, Libya is a mess.”


    Mess is the president’s diplomatic term; privately, he calls Libya a “ show,” in part because it’s subsequently become an isis haven—one that he has already targeted with air strikes. It became a show, Obama believes, for reasons that had less to do with American incompetence than with the passivity of America’s allies and with the obdurate power of tribalism.


    “When I go back and I ask myself what went wrong,” Obama said, “there’s room for criticism, because I had more faith in the Europeans, given Libya’s proximity, being invested in the follow-up,” he said. He noted that Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, lost his job the following year. And he said that British Prime Minister David Cameron soon stopped paying attention, becoming “distracted by a range of other things.” Of France, he said, “Sarkozy wanted to trumpet the flights he was taking in the air campaign, despite the fact that we had wiped out all the air defenses and essentially set up the entire infrastructure” for the intervention. This sort of bragging was fine, Obama said, because it allowed the U.S. to “purchase France’s involvement in a way that made it less expensive for us and less risky for us.” In other words, giving France extra credit in exchange for less risk and cost to the United States was a useful trade-off—except that “from the perspective of a lot of the folks in the foreign-policy establishment, well, that was terrible. If we’re going to do something, obviously we’ve got to be up front, and nobody else is sharing in the spotlight.”


    Obama also blamed internal Libyan dynamics. “The degree of tribal division in Libya was greater than our analysts had expected. And our ability to have any kind of structure there that we could interact with and start training and start providing resources broke down very quickly.”


    Libya proved to him that the Middle East was best avoided. “There is no way we should commit to governing the Middle East and North Africa,” he recently told a former colleague from the Senate. “That would be a basic, fundamental mistake.”
    tldr Europe asks Obama to bomb Libya, Europe sits back and lets America do all the work, Europe cries like a little baby when told to fight their own battles and to finish the wars they started.

  4. #144
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    is going down in Brazil, surprised there isn't a thread on it right now



  5. #145
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    If its not related to Europe or USA we care little.

  6. #146

    Default Brussels Airport

    Since the thread is inevitable, I may as well make an OP that's less than 90% speculation:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35869254

    Two blasts are reported at Brussels Airport, and casualties including at least one death are reported by local media. The cause of the explosions is unknown.

    There is currently no known link between the arrest of Salah Abdeslam in Brussels four days ago, and this is likely to be a source of early speculation.

    The mudpit is not a newsticker and "Something's happened but nobody really knows anything" is not an OP. If you want this to be in its own thread again, expand this post and let me know. ~Iskar
    Last edited by Iskar; March 22, 2016 at 03:22 AM.

  7. #147

    Default Re: Brussels Airport

    this was certainly no electrical fire or anything of the sort, this could be a reaction to Abdeslam's new cell meeting a premature end in Molenbeek.

  8. #148

    Default

    There is nothing certain currently.

    Live stream. There are some graphic images.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-35869266
    Last edited by Iskar; March 22, 2016 at 03:20 AM. Reason: consecutive posts merged

  9. #149
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Brussels Airport

    War on terror goes great

  10. #150

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    What the ? How can my thread get redirected here? lol, alright, fine. Get the inevitable, far-right shitepost you deserve.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    It must be those Flemish seperatists... go back to sleep Ferrets. We have realy no other enemies!

    Attack in Brussels metro

    13dead
    Last edited by Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus; March 22, 2016 at 03:44 AM.
    454-480 Western Roman Politics (Article)
    There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. - W. Shakespeare
    We (...) have converted the miracles of science into a chamber of horrors -R. Hull

    USA knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it - F.J. Nepos
    You will be ruled by either a crown, a clown, or a crook, and democracy assures that you won't get the first one.



  12. #152
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    More than one subway station explosion ,Belgian under attack,and guess by who? I guess that Merkel babies are doing their job.
    This happened in a city under a high level alert,just imagine the future.
    Last edited by pajomife; March 22, 2016 at 03:36 AM.

  13. #153
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    This is a discussion forum, not a newsfeed. If there is too little information to form a hypothesis and craft an OP, I suggest you refrain from posting OPs consisting of links accompanied by a lack of information (lest you are craving for a Defying Moderation infraction).
    "Non i titoli illustrano gli uomini, ma gli uomini i titoli." - Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi
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  14. #154

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Another attack! Just a minute ago! How many terrorists live in this f***ng capital?! 13 dead +35 severly injured!
    454-480 Western Roman Politics (Article)
    There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. - W. Shakespeare
    We (...) have converted the miracles of science into a chamber of horrors -R. Hull

    USA knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it - F.J. Nepos
    You will be ruled by either a crown, a clown, or a crook, and democracy assures that you won't get the first one.



  15. #155
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Still better to be in be in Belgium than in Syria.

  16. #156

    Default Re: Brussels Airport

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    War on terror goes great
    other than Bush's crusade, it kinda is going great though. we're killing a lot of them in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya, and they can only do so much damage back. take for example these Brussels attacks, dozens killed? white people in the US kill that much over the weekend and more, you don't hear a thing about that being terrorism though, one of them is actually suing Uber for causing his rampage and mental anguish. how cute

    of course, a few of these militants might chimp out when their cell is getting picked off and the net is closing all around them, that much is expected, but another 9/11 is just unlikely, and so far, right-winger whites are outdoing jihadists when it comes to kill count, so even smaller jihadist incidents are becoming more shrug-worthy in the grand scheme of things

    the War on terror is going great because that daesh casualty list of officers/leaders/VIPs keeps growing and it's huge, and that list doesn't even include al-qaeda or taliban or hezbollah & other iranian jihadist groups, or al-shabab. it's like whack-a-mole, it's great, i don't think anybody in daesh wants to be "second in command" or "third in command" anymore, if you get my drift LMAO, how many "second in commands" have they had anyway?
    Last edited by snuggans; March 22, 2016 at 04:40 AM.

  17. #157

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Absurd reaction by staff on this. One of the biggest political events that will happen this year, and it's been relegated to this neglected general discussion thread. Staff will be rewarded with another mess of far-right screaming, good ing luck to them.

  18. #158

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    This is a discussion forum, not a newsfeed. If there is too little information to form a hypothesis and craft an OP, I suggest you refrain from posting OPs consisting of links accompanied by a lack of information (lest you are craving for a Defying Moderation infraction).
    I understand this, but inevitably the passage of time and more info arising could have rendered your decision obsolete. Could I humbly ask you to reconsider?
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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  19. #159

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    The war on terror is going great? 15 years later we have a caliphate and terrorism acts only became must more frequent + many more countries (Syria and Libya f.e.) are affected
    454-480 Western Roman Politics (Article)
    There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. - W. Shakespeare
    We (...) have converted the miracles of science into a chamber of horrors -R. Hull

    USA knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it - F.J. Nepos
    You will be ruled by either a crown, a clown, or a crook, and democracy assures that you won't get the first one.



  20. #160
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    Default Re: Brussels Airport

    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    other than Bush's crusade, it kinda is going great though. we're killing a lot of them in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya, and they can only do so much damage back. take for example these Brussels attacks, dozens killed? white people in the US kill that much over the weekend and more, you don't hear a thing about that being terrorism though, one of them is actually suing Uber for causing his rampage and mental anguish. how cute

    of course, a few of these militants might chimp out when their cell is getting picked off and the net is closing all around them, that much is expected, but another 9/11 is just unlikely, and so far, right-winger whites are outdoing jihadists when it comes to kill count, so even smaller jihadist incidents are becoming more shrug-worthy in the grand scheme of things

    the War on terror is going great because that daesh casualty list of officers/leaders/VIPs keeps growing and it's huge, and that list doesn't even include al-qaeda or taliban or hezbollah & other iranian jihadist groups, or al-shabab. it's like whack-a-mole, it's great, i don't think anybody in daesh wants to be "second in command" or "third in command" anymore, if you get my drift LMAO, how many "second in commands" have they had anyway?
    Yes we have murdered hundreds of thousands of muslims. We are doing great. I am proud for this

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