Discussion and Debate Community Thread

[Coughdrop addict]

I wonder if they want to be in Putin's good graces, or if they feel like they have to oppose support for Ukraine because it's a fairly successful Biden project. I.e. "Biden is doing it so it has to be bad" mentality.

Probably both.

It's no secret that the Republican elite wants to tear down the United States and rebuild it as a Russian satellite, with themselves as oligarchs. The Republican voters, on the other hand, are the most heavily propagandized people in history and have been so trained to hate anyone with a D next to their name that even if Biden called for the deportation of all citizens with Hispanic blood and the execution of anyone so much as suspected of being trans, they would still seethe with hatred for him.

[The spartan]

I'm gonna be honest, I think that is a bit of a reach. The "Republican elite", I'm thinking of people like Mitch McConnell, probably don't want to tear down the United States. Especially not to be a Russian puppet. The Republican elite instead made a Faustian bargain with radical populists, the Freedom Caucus gang for example, who probably do want to tear down the United States and rebuild it. They probably even want to structure the "new US" to be sort of like Russia, less democracy and more strong-man leadership, but I doubt they want to be Russian puppets either.

The Rightwing populists probably admire Russia, because I think they ultimately come from a place of illiberalism. There are strong beliefs that "this type of democracy", the modern US, is a failed experiment and we should knock it over and try again with stronger controls on the populace. Like Russia has.

[Coughdrop addict]

https://news.yahoo.com/tucker-carlso...171738398.html

"There is a lot of outrage over the end of frumpy, plus-sized, and lesbian M&Ms," Carlson also tweeted. "We accept full responsibility."
M&M's announced a pause on the brand's spokescandies in a statement on Twitter Monday, writing: "In the last year, we've made some changes to our beloved spokescandies. We weren't sure if anyone would even notice. And we definitely didn't think it would break the internet. But now we get it — even a candy's shoes can be polarizing."
The brand is replacing its spokescandies with actress Maya Rudolph.
Carlson previously criticized the brand's redesigned mascots, calling the brown M&M "less sexy" without her stilettos and slamming the rebranding of the green M&M from her go-go boots to sneakers.
In January 2022, Carlson said on his show that "M&M's will not be satisfied until every last cartoon character is deeply unappealing and totally androgynous until the moment you wouldn't want to have a drink with any one of them."

Ukraine? Defense? Covid? Environment? Mass shootings?

Republicans have no time for such frivolous nonsense when compared to the serious problem of no longer being able to fantasize about a cartoon M&M.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Oh my Gosh.

Now you have planted the picture of Carlson with a M & M bag in his hand doing stuff like Jason Biggs in American Pie.

[Coughdrop addict]

https://www.newsweek.com/kari-lake-w...-bills-1777290

ari Lake, the embattled former GOP gubernatorial candidate in Arizona, said she is asking the Republican National Committee (RNC) to pay for some of her legal bills as she fights the results of her election loss.

Why don’t republicans use their own money to pay their bills? Why do they always want handouts? They endlessly complain about other people getting "free money for being lazy", then they want other people to cover them for hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of dollars in lawsuits and lawyers' fees.

[Lord Thesaurian]

You know the American left has gone off the deep end when there’s so little daylight between Bill Maher and a generic Republican. Spoiler for hurty words.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=yysKhJ1U-vM

[The spartan]

when there’s so little daylight between Bill Maher and a generic Republican. Spoiler for hurty words.

Uhhhh...don't make the mistake of assuming someone who criticizes your opponents likes you or agrees with you. Maher thinks Republicans are bat- insane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo8t86Fi2JQ

[Lord Thesaurian]

Uhhhh...don't make the mistake of assuming someone who criticizes your opponents likes you or agrees with you. Maher thinks Republicans are bat- insane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo8t86Fi2JQ

I’d consider that retort an endorsement of his credibility then?

[The spartan]

Credibility about what? Maher is a political commentator, that's his job. He is rather bipartisan, if that's what you mean.

[Lord Thesaurian]

I’m glad you find the comparison between mainstream American left wing activists and Chinese communists to be bipartisan.

[The spartan]

When he is also calling American right wing activists the "American Taliban" then yeah, that seems pretty bipartisan. Unless you agree with one of his takes and not the other? What do you think bipartisan means?

[Lord Thesaurian]

When he is also calling American right wing activists the "American Taliban" then yeah, that seems pretty bipartisan. Unless you agree with one of his takes and not the other? What do you think bipartisan means?

I’m not sure I follow your rhetorical questions. Maher’s politics haven’t changed and he’s said as much himself. He’s a self-described left wing Democrat. Hence my comment. I would expect him to regurgitate basic left wing talking points, and “American Taliban” has been a favorite for at least as long as that episode of The Newsroom has been around. If you say it’s bipartisan of him to tell liberals they should look at what the Taliban is doing to Afghans to learn what “real oppression” looks like and lay off the anti-Americanism, I agree it ought to be. But I haven’t heard from any other prominent Democrats with that perspective, nor ones comparing liberals to Chinese communists. I definitely haven’t heard any saying the Democrat Party is a parody of itself “with their heads up their…..” led by people who have “gone mental.” He’s also the only prominent liberal today I’ve seen say LGBTQ identity is being socially transmitted by lefty pop culture that promotes dangerous medical experiments to confused kids who decide they are trans. That’s why I thought his take was unique.

[sumskilz]

I’m not sure I follow your rhetorical questions. Maher’s politics haven’t changed and he’s said as much himself. He’s a self-described left wing Democrat. Hence my comment. I would expect him to regurgitate basic left wing talking points, and “American Taliban” has been a favorite for at least as long as that episode of The Newsroom has been around. If you say it’s bipartisan of him to tell liberals they should look at what the Taliban is doing to Afghans to learn what “real oppression” looks like and lay off the anti-Americanism, I agree it ought to be. But I haven’t heard from any other prominent Democrats with that perspective, nor ones comparing liberals to Chinese communists. I definitely haven’t heard any saying the Democrat Party is a parody of itself “with their heads up their…..” led by people who have “gone mental.” He’s also the only prominent liberal today I’ve seen say LGBTQ identity is being socially transmitted by lefty pop culture that promotes dangerous medical experiments to confused kids who decide they are trans. That’s why I thought his take was unique.

I suspect his views are fairly common among center left Democrats, who would never admit to it in public, due to the social and financial risks. I know for certain that such individuals exist in academia, although they tend to speak about it in more polite terms than Maher, even in private. Plus, what he’s calling out is mostly a white people thing. Plenty of minorities are staunch Democrats, at least in their voting patterns, who don’t subscribe to the weird gender ideology.

For example:

More recently, a new, gender-neutral, pan-ethnic label, Latinx, has emerged as an alternative that is used by some news and entertainment outlets, corporations, local governments and universities to describe the nation’s Hispanic population.

However, for the population it is meant to describe, only 23% of U.S. adults who self-identify as Hispanic or Latino have heard of the term Latinx, and just 3% say they use it to describe themselves, according to a nationally representative, bilingual survey of U.S. Hispanic adults conducted in December 2019 by Pew Research Center.

[Cyclops]

Terrible news from Turkiye, hope all our fellow posters from there (and Syria) and their families are safe and well.

[Lord Thesaurian]

I suspect his views are fairly common among center left Democrats, who would never admit to it in public, due to the social and financial risks. I know for certain that such individuals exist in academia, although they tend to speak about it in more polite terms than Maher, even in private. Plus, what he’s calling out is mostly a white people thing. Plenty of minorities are staunch Democrats, at least in their voting patterns, who don’t subscribe to the weird gender ideology.

It’s ironic. Liberal Democrats have grown for years to become the largest share of the Party, dominating the Party’s institutional influence and narratives, but that trend is mostly a white one. Just a quarter of blacks describe themselves as liberal and half say conservative, in line with the general population, even though the vast majority vote Democrat. No wonder leftists see insidious “whiteness” everywhere they look.

[The spartan]

I’m not sure I follow your rhetorical questions. Maher’s politics haven’t changed and he’s said as much himself. He’s a self-described left wing Democrat. Hence my comment. I would expect him to regurgitate basic left wing talking points, and “American Taliban” has been a favorite for at least as long as that episode of The Newsroom has been around.

You would? Are you unfamiliar with Maher? This is far from the first time he has criticized the Left, and he typically goes the hardcore Liberal route, which I appreciate. Don't confuse Leftists and Liberals.

If you say it’s bipartisan of him to tell liberals they should look at what the Taliban is doing to Afghans to learn what “real oppression” looks like and lay off the anti-Americanism, I agree it ought to be. But I haven’t heard from any other prominent Democrats with that perspective, nor ones comparing liberals to Chinese communists.

By "Democrats" do you mean politicians? Because they obviously won't be that cutting with their rhetoric. There are Democrat pundits, usually Liberals, who criticize the Left. You could also look streamer and commentator Destiny, who is a Liberal and criticizes Leftists all the time. But he vehemently opposes Rightists.

But see, this is where I think you have your logic all backwards. You see Maher criticizing the Left and assume that if Bill Maher of all people is criticizing the Left, well , the Left must have gone super crazy for that to happen! But in reality, it's probably more disturbing that mainstream Conservative pundits are not calling out the Right. What, does the Right not have insane talking points to criticize? Of course they do. They just had a flare of anti-Semitism not that long ago, but Conservatives let that slide. That's how crazy I think the Right has gotten. If you cannot articulate criticisms your opponents have of "your side" in good faith, you are almost certainly a partisan hack.

[Lord Thesaurian]

You would? Are you unfamiliar with Maher?

Are you? I’ve rarely seen someone try so hard to explain away a basic observation because it offends your partisan views while insisting I’m the bad faith partisan. If there’s an angle here to like or dislike, it’s Maher’s not mine.

People say to me sometimes, ‘Have you changed?’ No, it’s just that five years ago no one was talking about defunding the police, I never heard that phrase five years ago. That’s not me changing, that’s things changing. I’m reacting to it as I’ve always been. Letting three-year-olds decide what gender they are, this wasn’t something five years ago,” he said. “Free speech, you know, used to be a left-wing thing that we were proud and owned, and now that seems to be under attack [by the left].

If that’s true and his position that liberals have become “loony” extremists is bipartisan, there’s no reason for you to dispute anything I’ve said.

[The spartan]

Are you?

Moreso than you, apparently, that's why I've known Maher has criticized the Left for years and you expected him to be parroting Leftists talking points.

I’ve rarely seen someone try so hard to explain away a basic observation because it offends your partisan views while insisting I’m the bad faith partisan. If there’s an angle here to like or dislike, it’s Maher’s not mine.

What observation did I explain away? His opinions there are a bit hyperbolic, the CCP is a whole different beast, but it fits within his purview as a Liberal pundit. Criticizing the Left is fine, I do it myself. I was saying your observation that Maher has "little daylight" between him and a "generic Republican" is absolutely ridiculous. He hates Republicans.

If that’s true and his position that liberals have become “loony” extremists is bipartisan, there’s no reason for you to dispute anything I’ve said.

He doesn't say "Liberals" anywhere there. Liberals =/= Leftists. You said that Maher was practically a "generic Republican" and that meant the "American left has gone off the deep end". Your understanding of Maher is fundamentally wrong, he isn't a hardline Leftist who has turned on other Leftists because he suddenly discovered he doesn't agree with them. He has always been a Liberal. And not to deride him or anything, I am a Liberal as well who agrees with him more often than not, but he is a pundit. He says pundit things.

[Muizer]

Terrible news from Turkiye, hope all our fellow posters from there (and Syria) and their families are safe and well.

Indeed. Just hoping the best for our members and their relatives and friends and wishing courage and perseverance to all those still waiting to be rescued as well as the people doing the rescue and recovery work. It's a great tragedy and a reminder we have enough misery to contend with, without the machinations of ambitious and greedy people adding to it further.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Mores I than you, apparently, that's why I've known Maher has criticized the Left for years and you expected him to be parroting Leftists talking points.

He does parrot leftist talking points, because he’s a self-described liberal leftist.

I was saying your observation that Maher has "little daylight" between him and a "generic Republican" is absolutely ridiculous. He hates Republicans.

Hence the irony of a liberal leftist calling his own Party extreme and stupid.

He doesn't say "Liberals" anywhere there. Liberals =/= Leftists

This is stupid.

You said that Maher was practically a "generic Republican" and that meant the "American left has gone off the deep end".

He said himself the left has gone off the deep end and has made the rounds among conservative talk shows discussing his agreement with conservative talking points Democrats would call “extremist” and “bigoted” and “dangerous.” Which is saying something given he is a liberal leftist.

Your understanding of Maher is fundamentally wrong, he isn't a hardline Leftist who has turned on other Leftists because he suddenly discovered he doesn't agree with them. He has always been a Liberal. And not to deride him or anything, I am a Liberal as well who agrees with him more often than not, but he is a pundit. He says pundit things.

I already quoted him plus gave several examples. He’s a self-described liberal leftist. Your gatekeeping is completely irrelevant.