Discussion and Debate Community Thread

[PointOfViewGun]

Yeah, let's make gross assumptions about people's private relationships based on our completely arbitrary rules of family building...

[swabian]

Yeah, let's make gross assumptions about people's private relationships based on our completely arbitrary rules of family building...

Was that directed at me? If so, what is the gross arbitrariness?

[PointOfViewGun]

Was that directed at me? If so, what is the gross arbitrariness?

Clearly not you. It's directed at people judging other people's relationship with hardly any knowledge of said relationship.

[Lord Thesaurian]

You mean Vanessa Paradis? Well, she was very supportive of Depp against Amber Heard's accusations and throughout the trial. What do you mean exactly by "abandoned"? I could be wrong, of course, but as far as I know, there were no bad feelings between Paradis and Depp when they divorced.

I’m referring to Depp’s testimony in court that his relationship with Heard began before he ended things with Paradis.

[Sir Adrian]

I think you both are wrong. The case doesn't really represent a blow against "#me too". This is being hawked around in the media like nobody's business by journalists who thrive on negative narrative sensationalism. The body of evidence is simply so overwhelming in favor of Depp, how does this therefore magically assume the rank of the one precedence that fells "#me too"? It doesn't.

It is not a precedence it's one isolated case and everything thereafter will be sorted out according to the evidence coming up in those cases. This wouldn't enable someone like Weinstein to sue a victim into oblivion. Women who really have been victimized (and are therefore encouraged, if not morally compelled to speak out) don't have to fear anything because of this case. It could be that this would intimidate victims after this case because of the show effect (which is the wrong reason and the culture of public trial always leads to these kind of ugly results), but something like this was almost guaranteed to happen anyways.

The "#me too" movement has to survive this, otherwise it isn't robust enough anyhow. A false accusation of libel by a wealthy alleged abuser against an alleged victim, accompanied by a lawsuit, is just as likely to backfire badly as it was before this case. The problem is public trials and the media frenzy about them in the US, not the outcome of this specific case.

Because for 4 years meetoo went all in on Amber Heard's story, they got Johnny Depp fired from movies, they got him blacklisted and they used her as the posterchild for thier activities. I agree with you about Winestein, but that metoo died in 2018 when it was hijacked by the feminazis, so much so that the movement's creator turned against it and called it a platform that facilitates misandry. The movement went from catching monsters like Weinstein to trying to get Aziz Ansari in jail for a bad date to #believeallwomen . They lost credibility and they put all their chips on Heard and now Heard beat the final nail in the coffin by being revealed as a liar.

[PointOfViewGun]

You guys are conflating Depp vs. Heard (in the general sense, not specific to the court case in USA) with the #MeToo movement just because their subjects are similar.

[Sir Adrian]

The truth about the Democratic party

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Mithradates]

Finally some common sense.

Fina stops transgender swimmers from competing in women's elite events

The new policy requires transgender competitors to have completed their transition by the age of 12 in order to be able to compete in women's competitions.
...
"Fina's approach in drafting this policy was comprehensive, science-based and inclusive, and, importantly, Fina's approach emphasised competitive fairness," said Brent Nowicki, the governing body's executive director.

[Prodromos]

It's possible that by allowing only those who complete their "transition" by age 12 to compete in women's competitions, they're only going to put even more pressure on younger children to begin the "transition" process.

[Mithradates]

It's possible that by allowing only those who complete their "transition" by age 12 to compete in women's competitions, they're only going to put even more pressure on younger children to begin the "transition" process.

To complete their "transition" by age 12 they need to start it in such early age that pressuring them is not even needed, they do what their parrents tell them to do. It is not the childrens choice, its their parrents decision.

Parrents who want their boy to transition and eventually become an athlete, the minority of a minority (and all of this should be illegal btw)

It is telling that the rules only apply to trans-women and ttrans-men are not even mentioned, at least the new rule will filter out all the male bodies from the women's competitions.

[Cyclops]

Its tough and hurts TG people, and I sympathise with them and the women athletes who felt people they saw as having male advantages invading their sports, after they had to fight for centuries to get some woman's institutions. New tech and new possibilities are stressing our society, we need some good will and community here.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Meanwhile in the real world:

Sexual harassment and assault in the FIFO mining industry must The final report of Western Australia’s inquiry into sexual harassment of women in the mining industry makes shocking reading.

The resources industry must step up and take action to ensure that men on worksites stop sexually harassing and assaulting the women they work with.
The WA Parliamentary Inquiry has handed down a final report titled Enough is Enough from its inquiry into sexual harassment against women in the fly-in fly-out (FIFO) mining industry, with 24 recommendations which urge stronger action to better support female workers.
Minister for Resources and Northern Australia Madeleine King thanked the Western Australian Government and parliament for taking the lead to bring this appalling behaviour in the mining industry to light.
“Sexual harassment and sexual assault is abhorrent and should not be part of any modern workplace. It is entirely unacceptable and must stop,” Minister King said.
“The health and safety of workers in the resources industry is paramount and every worker has the right to be treated with respect in the workplace. Female workers need to know they are safe at work, and that they have the right to have rewarding careers in the mining industry without being subjected to sexual harassment and assault.
“Any case of sexual harassment is one too many. Sadly, the inquiry has found that sexual harassment and assaults are much too common for women who choose to work in the FIFO workforce.
“The Australian Government stands ready to help the resources sector stamp out sexual harassment, which has no place in the modern workplace.
“I will work with my Western Australian counterpart, Minister Bill Johnston, to support the findings of the inquiry and to make sure our mining and resources industries are safe and supportive workplaces for the women and men who work in our mines, gas and oil industries.”
Latest data from May shows Australia’s mining sector employs a record high 52,500 women among a record strong workforce of 302,600.
Women account for 18.9 per cent of the mining sector’s workforce – the highest level in history. The Productivity Commission in 2020 estimated that FIFO workers represented 63 per cent of the WA mining workforce, significantly higher than in other states.
The inquiry was told women accounted for 74 per cent of mining workers who reported sexual harassment at work.
An independent review by Rio Tinto found 28.2 per cent of women had experienced sexual harassment at the workplace, while 21 women reported actual or attempted rape.
In March 2020, the Human Rights Commission published the Respect@Work report, which recommended 55 actions for governments, industries and employers to create safer workplaces.
“Sexual harassment is a scourge in any workplace,” Minister King said.
“The Albanese government is committed to implementing all recommendations of the Respect@Work report, and to working with the resources industry to stamp out sexual harassment.”

Sexual harassment and assault in the FIFO mining industry must stop | Ministers for the Department of Industry, Science, Energy and Resources

I can't believe that the mining corporations have no qualified security officer in the Camps. Perhaps its time to force them with some laws...

[Cyclops]

Yeah its pretty bad. The Liberal Parliament we just voted out had staff ****s who were on women MP's desks and filming it, and one bloke is allegedly a rapist. So we're not really a PC paradise.

[Prodromos]

DeVos doesn't get enough credit.

Revelations Show Trump Immigration Policy Was Supposed To Be Harsher - Forbes

Stephen Miller’s Plan To Send ICE Agents To Identify Children To Deport At U.S. Schools: In a new book describing her years during the Trump administration, former Education Secretary Betsy DeVos revealed a plan by Stephen Miller to identify children at school for deportation under the pretext of checking for gang members. “There was also the overreach and bad ideas we stopped from occurring,” writes DeVos. “Stephen Miller, President Trump’s policy guru, summoned Nate and Ebony from my team to the White House for a discussion. After failing to properly clear them through White House security, Miller’s aides took them to a nearby restaurant (Cosi, for those who know the area) to have their meeting.

“Over the din of patrons slurping lattes and crunching salads, Miller’s men described a plan to put U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents into schools under the pretext of identifying MS-13 gang members. The plan was, when agents checked students’ citizenship status for the alleged purpose of identifying gang ties, they could identify undocumented students and deport them. Not only was the prospect of this chilling, but it was also patently illegal. Nate and Ebony turned them down cold. But that didn’t stop Stephen Miller from subsequently calling me to get my thoughts on the idea. They were the same as Nate and Ebony’s: no. Just no.”

[Axalon]

In the meantime…

Yet more senseless and grand scale Islamist/jihadist slaughter in Africa (this month)… First the Owo-church-massacre in Nigeria - killing 40+ people (injuring another 61) - essentially because they were not Muslims. And then there were 2022 Bankass massacres that killed 132 people in total (injured unknown) basically because they were not Muslims as well (or not Muslim enough perhaps). Yet another apparently “glorious win” for Islam, I suppose…

Yesterday, in Norway there was another (suspected jihadist/islamist) terrorist attack as well, causing a nationwide trauma - the Oslo 2022 attacks - killing 2 people and injuring 20+ people - essentially because they were not Muslims (yet again). So, another “win” for Islam then? Needless to say that without the moronic mass-immigration forced upon Norway (and many other European countries) by self declared “goodhearted” politicians - this attack would probably never ever have happened in the first place. Or is it just me that draws that (politically incorrect) conclusion? After all, no Islam means no jihadists and that means no such related terrorist attacks are staged as a result – or did I get that all wrong?

- A

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

By far the most serious incident occurred in March when the Wagner Group is alleged to have been involved in a massacre in Moura, a village controlled by Islamist extremists, where between 350 and 380 men were killed over a four-day period.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sacres-in-mali

I guess the christian russian mercenaries killed them simply because they were black muslims with beard.

And the people in Oslo were killed because they were gay.

But it seems in the white christian US the future isn't golden for LGTBI+ people too.

2021

• March 11, 2021 – A transgender woman was attacked by Johnny Moreno, 23, with a skateboard in Costa Mesa, California. Moreno repeatedly hit the victim with his skateboard, and utilized homophobic slurs throughout the attack. Subsequently, Moreno threatened a passerby who called the police for assistance. Following the attack, Moreno was charged with assault with hate crime enhancement.^[269]
• March 20, 2021 – A 32-year-old transgender woman was stabbed during an attempted sexual assault in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. ^[270]
• March 22, 2021 – A gunman fired into a home of an unidentified victim with the intent to kill in Basin, Montana. The indictment for John Russell Howard includes that he wanted to, "get rid of the lesbians [and] gays."^[271][272]
• May 21, 2021 – The body of Poe Black, a 21-year-old transgender man, is found in an unincorporated area of Niland, California.^[273][274]
• July 5, 2021 – A gay man was brutally attacked after being lured on a date through Grindr by Daniel Andrew McGee in Eugene, Oregon. The victim suffered from a partially missing scalp, and was hospitalized as a result of the attack. McGee was charged with a hate crime as a result of his attack.^[275]
• August 6, 2021 – An unidentified gay man is attacked by four members of the Makarenko family. The Makarenko family accused the man of "making" the youngest son gay; the suspects were not charged until 2022.^[276][277]
• September 2, 2021 – Two unidentified men were brutally assaulted in a Bushwick, Brooklyn bodega by Christopher Clemente and Johnathan Carter. Both victims were hospitalized for multiple stab wounds and collapsed lungs.^[278]
• October 24, 2021 – Charlotte Osieczanek, a transgender woman, was attacked by three men during her late night shift at a convenience store. Osieczanek suffered a broken nose, shoulder, and orbital bones as a result of the attack, in addition to bodily bruising and abrasions. The three men were eventually charged for their roles in the attack.^[279]
• November 2, 2021 – Jenny de Leon, a Latina transgender woman, was found murdered in Tampa, Florida. de Leon was a frequent attendee of local PFLAG meetings.^[280]

2022

• February 17, 2022 – A 60-year-old gay man was tied up and assaulted with a wrench by Ethan Dickerson, his neighbor. Dickerson cited the victim's sexuality as the reason for the assault.^[281]
• March 19, 2022 – A 22-year-old man was attacked while riding a NYC subway train. The suspect repeatedly spat on the victim, then began to assault the victim when they tried to move.^[282]
• April 17, 2022 – James Garcia, a gay man, was attacked while walking his dog by Maurice Charles, 36 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. As a result of the attack, Garcia had to receive ten stitches.^[283]
• April 26, 2022 – An unidentified individual, throws a rock through the front door of the Pride Center VT office. It April remains unsolved and is being investigated as a hate crime.^[284]
• June 1, 2022 – An unidentified individual, 31, was stabbed on the New York City subway. The suspect started a verbal altercation with the victim, utilizing homophobic slurs. Subsequently, the suspect then stabbed the victim, before fleeing the station.^[285]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ed_States#2021

And now please people go on with THE MUH EVIL MUSLIM HATE SPEECH SHOW.

[Mithradates]

By far the most serious incident occurred in March when the Wagner Group is alleged to have been involved in a massacre in Moura, a village controlled by Islamist extremists, where between 350 and 380 men were killed over a four-day period.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sacres-in-mali

I guess the christian russian mercenaries killed them simply because they were black muslims with beard.

This was almost a good example for migrants who move to another country and then commit terrorism.
The problem with this example is that the Wagner Group are not random Russian people, they are mercenaries, and even amongst mercenaries they are one of the worst, and they are being paid to commit those crimes.
They commit the same crimes against christian Ukrainians too so no, they didnt kill those people because they were black muslims, they killed them for money.

And the people in Oslo were killed because they were gay.

But it seems in the white christian US the future isn't golden for LGTBI+ people too.

2021

• March 11, 2021 – A transgender woman was attacked by Johnny Moreno, 23, with a skateboard in Costa Mesa, California. Moreno repeatedly hit the victim with his skateboard, and utilized homophobic slurs throughout the attack. Subsequently, Moreno threatened a passerby who called the police for assistance. Following the attack, Moreno was charged with assault with hate crime enhancement.^[269]
• March 20, 2021 – A 32-year-old transgender woman was stabbed during an attempted sexual assault in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. ^[270]
• March 22, 2021 – A gunman fired into a home of an unidentified victim with the intent to kill in Basin, Montana. The indictment for John Russell Howard includes that he wanted to, "get rid of the lesbians [and] gays."^[271][272]
• May 21, 2021 – The body of Poe Black, a 21-year-old transgender man, is found in an unincorporated area of Niland, California.^[273][274]
• July 5, 2021 – A gay man was brutally attacked after being lured on a date through Grindr by Daniel Andrew McGee in Eugene, Oregon. The victim suffered from a partially missing scalp, and was hospitalized as a result of the attack. McGee was charged with a hate crime as a result of his attack.^[275]
• August 6, 2021 – An unidentified gay man is attacked by four members of the Makarenko family. The Makarenko family accused the man of "making" the youngest son gay; the suspects were not charged until 2022.^[276][277]
• September 2, 2021 – Two unidentified men were brutally assaulted in a Bushwick, Brooklyn bodega by Christopher Clemente and Johnathan Carter. Both victims were hospitalized for multiple stab wounds and collapsed lungs.^[278]
• October 24, 2021 – Charlotte Osieczanek, a transgender woman, was attacked by three men during her late night shift at a convenience store. Osieczanek suffered a broken nose, shoulder, and orbital bones as a result of the attack, in addition to bodily bruising and abrasions. The three men were eventually charged for their roles in the attack.^[279]
• November 2, 2021 – Jenny de Leon, a Latina transgender woman, was found murdered in Tampa, Florida. de Leon was a frequent attendee of local PFLAG meetings.^[280]

2022

• February 17, 2022 – A 60-year-old gay man was tied up and assaulted with a wrench by Ethan Dickerson, his neighbor. Dickerson cited the victim's sexuality as the reason for the assault.^[281]
• March 19, 2022 – A 22-year-old man was attacked while riding a NYC subway train. The suspect repeatedly spat on the victim, then began to assault the victim when they tried to move.^[282]
• April 17, 2022 – James Garcia, a gay man, was attacked while walking his dog by Maurice Charles, 36 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. As a result of the attack, Garcia had to receive ten stitches.^[283]
• April 26, 2022 – An unidentified individual, throws a rock through the front door of the Pride Center VT office. It April remains unsolved and is being investigated as a hate crime.^[284]
• June 1, 2022 – An unidentified individual, 31, was stabbed on the New York City subway. The suspect started a verbal altercation with the victim, utilizing homophobic slurs. Subsequently, the suspect then stabbed the victim, before fleeing the station.^[285]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ed_States#2021

And now please people go on with THE MUH EVIL MUSLIM HATE SPEECH SHOW.

Yep, in the white christian US the future isn't exactly golden for LGTBI+* people, still, I would chose the US and its "not so golden" future over something like the "pitch black" future in the Middle East.

*its "LGBTQIA++"

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

The two church massacres were in Burkina Faso and Nigeria, so no immigrant attack, so my comparison with the orthodox Wagner mercenaries in Mali was very valid.

And the Russian Orthodox Church under Kyrill is supporting russian wars and imperialism worldwide:

Russia is strengthening its presence in the continent through the church, which operates in line with Moscow's foreign policy.


Late in 2021, the Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) decided to establish an exarchate in Africa. Two dioceses were established: one in North Africa, with its centre in Cairo, and the other in the south of the continent, with a see in Johannesburg.
Bishop Leonid Gorbachev, the head of the new exarchate, also runs the recently established Armenian diocese of the ROC.
This was an unprecedented decision by the canons of Orthodoxy, where there is fairly strict adherence to territorial jurisdiction: the borders of a church region, province, or a whole patriarchate are considered inviolable and those who violate them are liable to trial.
The Patriarchate of Alexandria currently oversees the entire continent of Africa. Its mission in the equatorial part of the continent is relatively young and dates back to the second half of the last century.
One hundred years ago, the Phanar and the Patriarchate of Alexandria struck a deal — recognising the former's responsibility for the Orthodox diaspora throughout the world in exchange for the responsibility of the church in Africa for the latter. The Russian Orthodox Church had always acknowledged this.
But now, the ROC insists that the Patriarchate of Alexandria has never extended its jurisdiction beyond Egypt.
The territory of the Patriarchate of Alexandria is twice protected by church law: by general principles of inviolability and a specific canon. A violation of these principles is akin to a gross violation of international law. This has the potential to open a Pandora's box of interchurch relations, endangering the entire architecture of modern Orthodoxy.
Russia's Africa ambitions
What was the reason for such a violation of the canons and the common Orthodox ethics of behaviour?The ROC hasn't made it a secret that its move is in response to the Patriarch of Alexandria recognising the autocephaly of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine (OCU).
But the Patriarchate of Alexandria had recognised the OCU in early November 2019, more than two years ago.
Gorbachev also stated that the Moscow Patriarchate would not leave Africa, and the church would only "strengthen and expand".
That is, even in the case of a hypothetical withdrawal of recognition of the OCU by Alexandria and, therefore, the elimination of the root cause of the conflict (according to the Russians), it would not be enough to end the Russian presence.
Thus, it is possible that Ukraine was only a pretext for church expansion. It is more likely that it is about the ROC's role within Russia's neo-colonial ambitions in Africa.
Moscow, which has established relations with African countries from the Soviet era, has signed a memorandum of understanding on space cooperation with Zimbabwe. State-backed corporations are extracting minerals, and various private military companies are protecting friendly regimes.
It is highly likely that the decision to establish an exarchate was agreed upon — or at least discussed — with the foreign ministry.
In this context, the church serves as a source of soft power; Russia is strengthening its presence in Africa with the informal institution of the church, which, nominally separate, is operating in line with the national foreign policy.
The Moscow Patriarchate has a whole range of activities in Africa, including includes the promotion of Russia in the region, building its positive image as well as denigration of the "collective West". Its role may also include spiritual support to various Russian mercenaries and lobbying in places where the Kremlin fails to achieve its goals.
The ROC is also using finances to support its mission. Orthodox priests used to receive a salary of about $100 from the Patriarchate of Alexandria, a reasonable sum by local standards. Moscow has doubled the salary. By the end 2020, 102 priests allegedly — the ROC has not published any names, personal records, or documents, keeping these priests secret — joined the ROC.
Consequences
The Patriarchate of Alexandria, a victim of Moscow's aggression on its ecclesiastical jurisdiction, asked Patriarch Bartholomew to convene the Synaxis of Pentarchy, a special council of the ancient Eastern Patriarchates, which can condemn the actions of the ROC.
There are three scenarios for sanctions against the Russians. The first two are personal sanctions that would be applied to different members of the clergy, from ordinary clerics (ROC priests in Africa — Andrei Novikov and Georgy Maximov) to members of the Synod and Patriarch Kirill himself. They could be stripped of their ministry for violating the canons.
The toughest scenario calls for institutional sanctions: the abolition of Moscow Patriarchate and liquidation of the ROC by annulling its autocephaly.
This could be done in the following way.
The fundamental document that established patriarchy in Moscow and recognised the autocephaly of the ROC was the charter of 1593, signed by the four Eastern Patriarchs. The modern Eastern patriarchs (or some of them) can simply revoke the signatures of their predecessors under this document, due to violations, and it will automatically become invalid.
Three of the five representatives of the Pentarchy have already recognised the OCU and been sanctioned by the ROC, meaning they have motives to condemn the ROC.
The other two — the Antioch (Syria and Lebanon) and the Jerusalem (Palestine, Jordan) — are neutral on the Ukrainian issue but may take a different stance on the ROC's moves in Africa.
The Bishops' Council of the OCU is scheduled to take place on May 24, but is unlikely to make any major decisions. Moscow is also planning to hold its own Bishops' Council, which it postponed from its scheduled date in May to autumn or winter. Formally, this is because of European sanctions, making it difficult for bishops to visit Moscow. But Patriarch Kirill of the ROC is also wary of facing rather uncomfortable questions from Ukrainian bishops.
The Russian Orthodox Church has instrumentalised the independence of the Ukrainian church and has shown that it is willing to do anything to attain its goals. Because of this, world Orthodoxy is entering a severe crisis that brings the threat of a new global schism.

https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/how...n-africa-57377

By the way its the same Kyrill, which was deleted from the sanctions list of the EU by veto of Putins best friend Orban, Fuhrer of facist, racistic, homophobe Hungary.

[Mithradates]

The two church massacres were in Burkina Faso and Nigeria, so no immigrant attack, so my comparison with the orthodox Wagner mercenaries in Mali was very valid.

Really? Are you saying that the Wagner mercenaries are commiting this crimes because they are Christians?

And the Russian Orthodox Church under Kyrill is supporting russian wars and imperialism worldwide:

Indeed, Kirill is a bad man.

[Prodromos]

Yesterday, in Norway there was another (suspected jihadist/islamist) terrorist attack as well, causing a nationwide trauma - the Oslo 2022 attacks - killing 2 people and injuring 20+ people - essentially because they were not Muslims (yet again).

Are you sure that's not fake news cooked up by some far-right propagandist? Because I've been reliably informed that mass shootings only happen in America. I just checked and automatic rifles are illegal in Norway and semi-automatic firearms are heavily restricted as well, so I doubt these kinds of weapons were used in any attack.