Thread: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

  1. #6201

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

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    Exarch, Coughdrop addict

  2. #6202
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    On this day, the 20th anniversary of 9/11, no tears. Only early 2000s anti-Bush memes

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  3. #6203

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Never forget about how thousands of Americans were killed by Saudi terrorist attack, reports on which are still classified by US government for "greater good".

  4. #6204

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    I’d say speculating about the Saudi connection is less relevant than definitely surrendering to the group that gave bin Laden a base and has for the entire duration since maintained close ties with al Queda, on the 20th anniversary of the attacks.
    A Taliban official said that the group raised their flag over the Afghan presidential palace in a brief ceremony on Saturday — the same day the U.S. and the world marked the 20th anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks.
    The milestone anniversary takes place just weeks after the chaotic U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan and the return to power of the Taliban, the faction that sheltered the al-Qaida terror network founded by Osama bin Laden that carried out the attacks.

    The Taliban’s new Prime Minister Mohammad Hasan Akhund raised the flag in a ceremony at 11 a.m. local time to mark the official start of work by the Taliban’s 33-member caretaker government, said Ahmadullahh Muttaqi, multimedia chief of the group’s cultural commission.

    https://apnews.com/article/middle-ea...46bf312b3a8ac4
    But I suppose we can always depend on auth left and auth right to remind us we can’t be sad about 9/11 because America sucks.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  5. #6205

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Taliban offered to give him up if US government would provide evidence, so whole ordeal could have been easily avoided if Bush just... provided evidence. So Afghan war is more on Bush, neocons and US intelligence then it is on taliban, objectively speaking.
    Saudis are much more relevant then Taliban. Just like Taliban or ISIS, Saudi Arabia is a terrorist state and biggest funder of other terrorist groups (maybe only rivaled by CIA itself).
    It is interesting that both wings of globalist uniparty are actively simping for Saudis, despite the fact that they always went against US interests and killed thousands of American citizens in 911 attacks.

  6. #6206

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Low effort trolling and Taliban propaganda aside, the Taliban deflected US demands by asserting the Jews did 9/11, and the onus was on the US to disprove the conspiracy theory before American demands could even be discussed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    On 20 September 2001, US president George W. Bush, speaking to a joint session of Congress, tentatively blamed Al-Qaeda for the 11 September attacks, stating that the "leadership of Al Qaeda ha[d] great influence in Afghanistan and support[ed] the Taliban regime in controlling most of that country". Bush said, "We condemn the Taliban regime", and went on to state, "Tonight the United States of America makes the following demands on the Taliban", which he said were "not open to negotiation or discussion":[209][210]

    1. Deliver to the US all of the leaders of Al-Qaeda
    2. Release all foreign nationals that have been unjustly imprisoned
    3. Protect foreign journalists, diplomats, and aid workers
    4. Close immediately every terrorist training camp
    5. Hand over every terrorist and their supporters to appropriate authorities
    6. Give the United States full access to terrorist training camps for inspection

    The Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, Abdul Salem Zaeef, responded to the ultimatum by demanding "convincing evidence" that Bin Laden was involved in the attacks, stating "our position is that if America has evidence and proof, they should produce it". Additionally, the Taliban insisted that any trial of Bin Laden be held in an Afghan court. Zaeef also claimed that "4,000 Jews working in the Trade Center had prior knowledge of the suicide missions, and 'were absent on that day'." This response was generally dismissed as a delaying tactic, rather than a sincere attempt to cooperate with the ultimatum.

    On 7 October 2001, less than one month after the 11 September attacks, the US, aided by the United Kingdom, Canada, and other countries including several from the NATO alliance, initiated military action, bombing Taliban and Al-Qaeda-related camps.[224][225] The stated intent of military operations was to remove the Taliban from power, and prevent the use of Afghanistan as a terrorist base of operations.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  7. #6207

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    No, Taliban asked for evidence that bin Laden organized it and they offered to hand him in. I'm sure that if this was the case, Bush would have no problem presenting it. But he didn't , hence US government either lied about what happened or was incompetent.

  8. #6208

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    No, Taliban asked for evidence that bin Laden organized it and they offered to hand him in. I'm sure that if this was the case, Bush would have no problem presenting it. But he didn't , hence US government either lied about what happened or was incompetent.
    +rep if you have the guts to just come out and say it.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  9. #6209

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    To say what? I literally just said it - based on actual evidence and lack of thereof, Bush admin either lied (to cover up for its saudi sugar daddy), or US government and its military and intelligence were consistently run by chest-smacking morons. You get to pick, I personally think its combination of both

  10. #6210

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    You disappoint me.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  11. #6211

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    To say what? I literally just said it - based on actual evidence and lack of thereof, Bush admin either lied (to cover up for its saudi sugar daddy), or US government and its military and intelligence were consistently run by chest-smacking morons. You get to pick, I personally think its combination of both
    Osama bin Laden opposed the Saudi monarchy and criticized the KSA's relationship with the US (for which he was expelled from the country and had his citizenship revoked). The fact that he (and many of his allies) were Saudis doesn't mean that the KSA was responsible for 9/11 or that Bush attacked Afghanistan as a diversion.



  12. #6212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Osama bin Laden opposed the Saudi monarchy and criticized the KSA's relationship with the US (for which he was expelled from the country and had his citizenship revoked). The fact that he (and many of his allies) were Saudis doesn't mean that the KSA was responsible for 9/11 or that Bush attacked Afghanistan as a diversion.
    Then Bush government would have no reasons not to provide evidence, but he didn't and documents in regards to Saudi involvement are still classified.
    Also KSA "denouncing" Osama doesn't mean much, CIA and other Western intelligence agencies have long history of providing aid to terrorists and then cutting the paper trail if such relationship comes to light.

  13. #6213
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Appealing to the majority doesn’t mean much given Americans would have preferred to leave a small force to support the Afghan government, and more now disapprove than approve of Biden’s performance. I draw the line at aiding, abetting, and surrendering to America’s enemies, who will continue to target and kill Americans.

    Shilling for Biden as though he’s done anything worth celebrating won’t change the facts.

    That’s entirely speculative, and doesn’t mean much, given the left derided Trump as the worst POTUS in modern history, if not ever.
    That's of course because he was. And it's of course by far not only the left. One must be living under a rock to not realize that.
    The fact that’s the best defense of Biden anyone can come up with shows just how miserably he has failed. Biden did not “stick to Trump’s peace deal.” Biden did his own thing, and deserves all the “credit.”
    I don't know how you manage to ignore the cognitive dissonance that just has to accrue in your mind, knowing that Trump wanted to leave Afghanistan just like Biden did, had he won the election.

    Let me also make use of this moment to state the obvious in casting doubt on the allegation that it's Biden's very own decision making and micromanaging that led to this result.

    I see the failure mainly with the former Afghan leadership. They should have been prepared for this after twenty years. They outnumbered the Taliban 4:1, had armored vehicles and attack helicopters and the advantage of fortifications. Their weakness and cowardice is so astonishing and absurd, it almost looks like they wanted this outcome.

  14. #6214

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    “ Trump would be worse because he’s the worst….it’s all the Afghans’ fault NATO ditched them in the middle of a civil war……Biden isn’t even in charge…….” And that’s the pro-Biden position lolol.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  15. #6215

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    “ Trump would be worse because he’s the worst….it’s all the Afghans’ fault NATO ditched them in the middle of a civil war……Biden isn’t even in charge…….” And that’s the pro-Biden position lolol.
    And still ignoring that you were against Trump pulling out.

  16. #6216
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    “ Trump would be worse because he’s the worst….it’s all the Afghans’ fault NATO ditched them in the middle of a civil war……Biden isn’t even in charge…….” And that’s the pro-Biden position lolol.
    I may be anti Trump (like many republican governors and senators are if i may remind you of that) but I'm overall certainly not "pro Biden". I'm very, very neutral on that so far and I'm stating that it isn't obvious at all that it is all Biden's personal fault. Right?!
    You're not pointing out any details, you're not giving any hypothesis as to what went wrong, you're just delivering a polemic remark that is supposed to be accepted as fact. Nobody even knows what you mean exactly except for some undifferentiated resentment against Biden's person. That's completely uninteresting. If you could care to point out in appropriate detail how and why mistakes were made that directly lead to Biden's person and not for example to US intelligence and military high command, I might very well change my mind, but that's not what you're doing.

  17. #6217

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    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    I may be anti Trump (like many republican governors and senators are if i may remind you of that) but I'm overall certainly not "pro Biden". I'm very, very neutral on that so far and I'm stating that it isn't obvious at all that it is all Biden's personal fault. Right?!
    You're not pointing out any details, you're not giving any hypothesis as to what went wrong, you're just delivering a polemic remark that is supposed to be accepted as fact. Nobody even knows what you mean exactly except for some undifferentiated resentment against Biden's person. That's completely uninteresting. If you could care to point out in appropriate detail how and why mistakes were made that directly lead to Biden's person and not for example to US intelligence and military high command, I might very well change my mind, but that's not what you're doing.
    The idea that Biden isn’t in charge in the first place and thus is not responsible for anything that happened is an even more damning indictment than anything I’ve complained about. I voted for him, so the allegation I’m somehow biased against him is especially rich.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; September 11, 2021 at 07:59 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  18. #6218
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    You're regarding the very fact that I have an opinion as proof for your polemic, oversimplified antagonisms. Do i have to explain why that is not satisfying?

  19. #6219

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    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    You're regarding the very fact that I have an opinion as proof for your polemic, oversimplified antagonisms.
    That’s an awfully ironic accusation.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  20. #6220
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    I see. You're not interested in any kind of debate, you just want to do a little peepee. Seriously, what a waste of space and time. EOD *shrug

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