Discussion and Debate Community Thread

[Cope]

Yes, I read the last few pages.I can certainly see Vanoi's comments being accurate, especially within the broader context of Trump's presidency. This isn't exactly the first scandal of his presidency.

Then we're in agreement. Vanoi's comments were extremely accurate and in no way thoroughly contemptible. No evidence categorically debunking them was ever provided.

This doesn't answer my question. I'm not particularly interested about the "authenticity" of AOC. The authenticity of her argument, on the other hand, is much more important. The obsession with the nomenclature, and the inability to take it outside of World War 2 context reeks of phoniness, not concern for how we treat thousand of detained human beings.

Whereas deliberately deploying language which is strongly associated with the Holocaust for dramatic effect doesn't "reek of phoniness" at all.

[Gaidin]

It is no different to what Britain does. The reason I care about this at all is as with everything what happens in America today happens here tomorrow. I.e. British removal centres will probably be called ‘concentration camps’ which is utterly ing stupid.

Are you admitting, right here and right now, that Britain overcrowds their system, separates families, and doesn’t provide adequate medical care to whom is in it all with an eye towards a future policy?

I didn’t answer your vague as all hell article earlier because all it said was Britain has a deportation policy. It didn’t go into what Britain does to the people while they are going through that deportation system. That is on you as a Brit to figure out as a current event. Be myopic, or not.

I also find it interesting your only retort to my entire historical delving into this is a...dictionary entry. Bra...fracking...vo.

[Aexodus]

Since when did the migrsnt detention centres in america deliberately not have enough adequate facilities such as food and water?

[Basil II the B.S]

More liberal media against the Moon landing.... because it was done by males.
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1151494027809886213

We need to choose between scientifical progress and the liberal elite. They aren't compatible.

[Gaidin]

Since when did the migrsnt detention centres in america deliberately not have enough adequate facilities such as food and water?

Food doesn’t do anything about how sick quite a few have gotten. Nor does Tylenol. Now answer the question, are you leading yourself into saying Britain’s facilities are currently in a similar state.

If yes, do you just not give a because you’ll never be picked up?

[Aexodus]

Calm down mate. It’s not a concentration camp if they can’t cope with the overcrowding. It’s not a concentration camp unless they are deliberately putting people there with no intention of releasing them or giving them adequate resources. That hasn’t been proven.

[Gaidin]

Calm down mate. It’s not a concentration camp if they can’t cope with the overcrowding. It’s not a concentration camp unless they are deliberately putting people there with no intention of releasing them or giving them adequate resources. That hasn’t been proven.

He has upwards of 4 billion to cope with. He just won’t. He has a stated goal of deterrence of future refugees. Guess what that makes them.

Now, you’ve yet to answer your own stated question about your own country. Please do so now as a British citizen.

[Love Mountain]

Since when did the migrsnt detention centres in america deliberately not have enough adequate facilities such as food and water?

This country has an excess of financial and administrative resources to provide adequate facilities, or at the very least to give it a very good try.

Whereas deliberately deploying language which is strongly associated with the Holocaust for dramatic effect doesn't "reek of phoniness" at all.

The coverage detention centers have received and the conditions uncovered since then, make it painfully clear that the reality is more than sufficiently abhorrent to warrant comparisons to the Holocaust. Nazi Germany was an authoritarian regime following a hateful ideology. The horrors perpetrated by them are well document. On the flip side, a democratic republic that's not at war, and does not suffer from any kind of material shortage, allows its own government to pack and mistreat human beings, including children. As a cherry on top, here we are, debating nomenclature and just how appropriately it should be used in accordance to some arbitrary system of obscenity. Playing politics and accusing each other of playing politics, when the simple truth is that AOC pointed out and brought national attention to an on-going horrific event in the country.

But please, do go on discussing the virtues of semantic accuracy and how butchering it is a political travesty.

[Cope]

The coverage detention centers have received and the conditions uncovered since then, make it painfully clear that the reality is more than sufficiently abhorrent to warrant comparisons to the Holocaust.

Another historically illiterate claim. That's a hat trick!

[Prodromos]

Trump officials pressing to slash refugee admissions to zero next year - POLITICO

The Trump administration is considering a virtual shutdown of refugee admissions next year — cutting the number to nearly zero — according to three people familiar with the plan.

During a key meeting of security officials on refugee admissions last week, a U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services representative who is closely aligned with White House immigration adviser Stephen Miller suggested setting a cap at zero, the people said. Homeland Security Department officials at the meeting later floated making the level anywhere from 3,000 to 10,000, according to one of the people.

The proposal for a near-shutdown of the refugee program is alarming officials at the Department of Defense, who don’t want to see a halt in admissions of Iraqis who risked their lives assisting U.S. forces in that country. The possible move comes after the Trump administration cut refugee admissions by a third this year, to 30,000.

If the administration shuts down refugee admissions, it would give President Donald Trump a powerful talking point as he makes immigration restrictions a centerpiece of his reelection campaign.

At the same time, it would strand thousands of people already far along in the process and damage the ability of resettlement agencies to process refugees in future years, according to advocates tracking the issue.

“In the long-term, it would mean that the capacity and the ability of the United States to resettle refugees would be completely decimated,” said Jen Smyers, a director with Church World Service, one of the nine U.S. resettlement agencies.

He's just against illegal immigrants, guys.

[Basil II the B.S]

Uh? Liberals push to extend the refugee status to anyone so that they can import as many people as they can and eliminate any difference between legal and illegal immigration, what should a conservative do?

[Prodromos]

The refugee program is separate from the asylum one. Trump has a lot of control over who gets accepted as a refugee. There's tens of millions of refugees in the world. A 0 refugee intake is anti-immigrant, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with being against illegal immigration.

[Basil II the B.S]

Hmm, 0 seems unnecessary and just bad. I do favour a significantly more detailed vetting and even a max yearly cap. We'll see. Politico tends to be an open borders advocate.

Edit, came across this thread on Twitter, I don't think Prod will like it but nonetheless.

https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/sta...76144079269893

Atkins is a liberal journo that states clearly the Democratic agenda.

The model is California.
1) Weed out white conservative Christians.
2) Talk about civil war is meaningless because conservatives won't dare.
3) The US are founded on white supremacy and he believes it's almost time to make white people pay the bill.
4) You don't get to have your own country, nor secession. You'll be a minority whether you like it or not.
5) Democrats are going to fix democracy by turning the US into a de-facto one party state. (Orwell alarm!)
6) ''Real'' America is urban, multiracial, multicultural, not white Evangelical.

Shots fired!

[Prodromos]

He's a moron, Basil. It's just wishful thinking.

Anyone with access to Google could tell him that the Republican party is at its strongest in a century, controlling 60% of state legislatures, the Senate, the presidency and the Supreme Court; and that Democrats only won the House in 2018 because 1) they had higher turnout than usual, relative to Republicans, and 2) the Democrats ran moderate candidates in red/purple districts. It wasn't exactly a communist transformation of the country.

2020 is a presidential year, so the millions of Republicans that stayed home in 2018 will turn out and vote. They could even take back the House.

Trump’s Electoral College Edge Could Grow in 2020 - The New York Times

I've been hearing this crap about the GOP's impending death since I was 13. The reality is a little different from the leftist fantasy.

[Basil II the B.S]

To be fair, I think that the Dems fetish for Hispanic immigration will backfire in the long run, because the day will come when Hispanics don't need White Liberals any longer.

[PointOfViewGun]

Edit, came across this thread on Twitter, I don't think Prod will like it but nonetheless.
https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/sta...76144079269893
Atkins is a liberal journo that states clearly the Democratic agenda.
The model is California.
1) Weed out white conservative Christians.
2) Talk about civil war is meaningless because conservatives won't dare.
3) The US are founded on white supremacy and he believes it's almost time to make white people pay the bill.
4) You don't get to have your own country, nor secession. You'll be a minority whether you like it or not.
5) Democrats are going to fix democracy by turning the US into a de-facto one party state. (Orwell alarm!)
6) ''Real'' America is urban, multiracial, multicultural, not white Evangelical.
Shots fired!

Basil makes 6 claims, only number 4 and 6 is true. This is a nice case of mixing some truth with outright lies. It's slander. It's pathetic.

[NosPortatArma]

To be fair, I think that the Dems fetish for Hispanic immigration will backfire in the long run, because the day will come when Hispanics don't need White Liberals any longer.

Count your blessings, it could be much worse. Atleast latinos are christians, so they won't change USA completely beyond recognition.

[Basil II the B.S]

That's one of the reasons but not the only one. It also depends on how religious new generations are, and they tend to be less because Catholicism in this moment of history is a weak religion. I don't really expect them to turn conservative any time soon though. Maybe in 15-20 years.
A noteworthy example is this:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/49611...l-hank-berrien
Mexicans are much more against immigration than Americans, who are rather split on the issue. Hispanics in the US are in favour of it simply because of tribal preference. Liberals who believe that Mexicans will welcome African immigrants or Middle-East Muslims are clueless. They were actually shocked to see such results and the poll was actually paid for by WaPo.
Want to know what's more hilarious about this? This is what liberals predicted in case of Trump victory.
http://worldif.economist.com/article...world-v-donald


The exact opposite of what's happening.

The other reason that libs are discounting is that mass migration doesn't help integration, it helps self-segregation among ethnic lines, and replication of countries of origin. This happens everywhere, it's a lot worse in Europe than in the US. However, LatAm countries are not Common Law ones and it shows in terms of institutional culture. Pretty much all of them are dysfunctional one way or another. Sure, American meddling didn't help, but even when there's little, dictatorships pop up on regular basis. You see how Brazilians switch without a problem from far left Lula to far right Bolsonaro. That's more typical for instance of the country of origin of the original colonials of South America, the Spanish, the Portuguese and the Italians (half of Argentina has Italian blood and there are large numbers in Uruguay and Brazil).

So here's how I see it playing: some crazy Dem wins next year or in 2024, they do immense damage to the country, it basically turns into a banana republic for a decade. Then Hispanics will turn on White Liberals and go for a typical LatAm authoritarian solution.

[sumskilz]

The other reason that libs are discounting is that mass migration doesn't help integration, it helps self-segregation among ethnic lines, and replication of countries of origin. This happens everywhere, it's a lot worse in Europe than in the US.

So the other day, Thursday that is, I was talking to an Arab girl who I initially assumed was Arab Israeli. Turns out she's from Germany, born and raised in München, she came to Israel to study at TAU. The reason being, I'll just quote her: "I wanted to study in Arabic because I never really learned German and English good, because my whole family speaked Arabic."

What the kind of operation are they running over there? I get how she could get to primary school without learning German, but how would she get through it without learning German? I have a suspicion that she somehow went to an Arabic speaking school in Germany, because otherwise I can't see how she would have met the requirements to get into the university.

[NosPortatArma]

So the other day, Thursday that is, I was talking to an Arab girl who I initially assumed was Arab Israeli. Turns out she's from Germany, born and raised in München, she came to Israel to study at TAU. The reason being, I'll just quote her: "I wanted to study in Arabic because I never really learned German and English good, because my whole family speaked Arabic."

What the kind of operation are they running over there? I get how she could get to primary school without learning German, but how would she get through it without learning German? I have a suspicion that she somehow went to an Arabic speaking school in Germany, because otherwise I can't see how she would have met the requirements to get into the university.

Took a stroll in a immigrant part of town the other day. Walked past a school, CCTV and also arabic and somali signs everywhere. Walked into a restaurant, had to order my kebab in english, there was arabic television on, arabic posters inside. Then I walked home to Sweden again, after visiting what felt like kurdistan or something Yeah, it's not suprising they don't learn the language. Literally NO demand is made on them to learn it. Signs are in their language, their whole neighborhood is in their language, they get education in their own language, they have right to translators..