Thread: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

  1. #3601
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    The Orthodox church was always involved with the military in all Orthodox countries, there were even cases of priests fighting for their homes on the front lines against the Ottomans and later the Austrians. The news from Russia is normal day-to-day.
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  2. #3602

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    The Orthodox church was always involved with the military in all Orthodox countries, there were even cases of priests fighting for their homes on the front lines against the Ottomans and later the Austrians. The news from Russia is normal day-to-day.
    Every christian nation has it's organised church in bed with it's military. Both the UK and America have military chaplains who serve alongside soldiers. Apparently it's only ok when WASPS do it apparently.

  3. #3603

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Came across this article about the deep involvement of the Russian Orthodox "Church" in Russia's military.

    Blessing the holy ICBMs: The Russian Orthodox Church and Putin - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists



    Reminded me of this passage in one of Martin Luther's books:
    If you really want to talk about the involvement of the Orthodox Church in Russian society, then the most important one of the past decade has been the rebounce of the Russian fertility rate, which in 1997 was as low as 1.22 and now it's up to 1.75. A 0.5 rebounce is incredibly rare and has no equivalent that I'm aware of in Western Europe, especially because it gets close to the 2.1 necessary to keep society stable.

    This is pretty important if you are Neocon who still thinks Russia will eventually bow down to the West. Even more if you compare that the Western solution to the same issue has been third world mass migration, with the resulting collapse of social cohesion.

  4. #3604
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Another idea Basil, how you could increase motherhood:

    Give them shiny medals:

    Bronze for 4-5 children
    Silver for 6-7 children
    Gold for 8 or more



    A organisation for young girls, where they learn to cook, wash clothes and learn to raise children.

    Laws, which prohibit women to work and make business of women dependent of the approval of their husbands.

    Germany 2017:

    1,57 fertility rate

    Better fertility rate in Russia has nothing to do with Orthodox Church, it has something to with the change from economical chaos of Jelzin to growing economy and more stable society in the Putin era.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; June 23, 2019 at 11:51 AM. Reason: fixed typo with "who" in "how" ^^
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  5. #3605

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Lol no. High fertility is strictly correlated with strong focus on traditional family roles.
    The 3 groups with the highest fertility rates in the Western world are Haredi Jews, Mormons and Amish people. What's the correlation between the 3? Rejection of decadent modern costumes and high focus on tradition.

    Germany's increase in fertility rate is simply due the fact that Merkel imported another high fertility group of religious people, aka Sunni Muslims. This will obviously be paid in the long term, as Germans go extinct and Sunni Muslims reshape Germanistan they way they like: stoning feminists and throwing gays off towers. Given that the latter groups strongly support the ethnic transition of Germany to a post-German society, they can only blame themselves for what's next. While I'm generally supportive of gay marriage and equal opportunities for women, I utterly despise when such causes are used to dismantle the backbone of our successful societies.

    Moving on, your side gets another well-deserved kick in the teeth:
    Salvini predictably walks free from the accusation of ''kidnapping migrants'' of the Dutch NGO Sea Watch, operated by far left no border extremists mainly from Germany.
    http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/topn...9ff793bc2.html

    Doesn't end there because we wouldn't want the commie garbage get away with it, wouldn't we? This German activist/human smuggler Pia Kemp is going on trial for aiding illegal immigration and risks up to 20 years in jail.
    http://www.general-anzeiger-bonn.de/...le4014887.html
    Salvini has nothing to do it with this, because everything happened during the Renzi/Gentiloni governments and she broke so many rules that even the left had to denounce her. If it were for me, she wouldn't even end up in a female prison. I'd let her spend some time alongside the migrants she smuggled to Italy and ended up raping Italian women. Time to teach your side a bit of responsibility for the consequences of your actions.

    Not enough obvious because evil people must be relentlessly fought until their complete annihilation and the treacherous pro-EU President Mattarella is now in deep trouble, because one of the Supreme Judicial organizations in Italy, which he's president of, is now involved in a massive corruption and clientelism scandal, which also involves members of the traitors of the center-left, Pro-EU party.
    Resignations have already started, though it'd be perfect if something came up against Mattarella himself, so that we can impeach him, jail him and the rest of the traitors.
    http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/poli...904c5c34d.html

  6. #3606

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    If you really want to talk about the involvement of the Orthodox Church in Russian society, then the most important one of the past decade has been the rebounce of the Russian fertility rate, which in 1997 was as low as 1.22 and now it's up to 1.75. A 0.5 rebounce is incredibly rare and has no equivalent that I'm aware of in Western Europe, especially because it gets close to the 2.1 necessary to keep society stable.
    That's all well and good, but why is the ROC involving itself in the business of the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    The Orthodox church was always involved with the military in all Orthodox countries, there were even cases of priests fighting for their homes on the front lines against the Ottomans and later the Austrians. The news from Russia is normal day-to-day.
    I don't think attending to soldiers' spiritual needs or picking up a rifle in self-defense is equivalent to the ROC's role in Russia's government. The ROC seems to exist for the primary purpose of imbuing the Russian government and its tyrannical and expansionist policies with religious legitimacy. At best, it's a devil's bargain; at worst, they're government agents who've co-opted the faith in order to further their own worldly aims.
    Last edited by Prodromos; June 23, 2019 at 12:15 PM.
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  7. #3607
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    As usual nonsense:



    Blue: former DDR
    Red: West Germany
    Black: both

    As everyone can see, except far rights, there is an trend of increasing births since 2010. It has nothing to do with the refugee crisis of 2015.

    Usual far right fear propaganda nonsense of Eurabia and Great Replacement theory.

    More serious informations:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    WIESBADEN - The number of children born in 2017 was around 785.000, 7,000 fewer than in 2016. This decline is due to the slightly lower average number of children per woman. As reported by the Federal Statistical Office (Destatis), in 2017 the combined birth rate was 1.57 children per woman. The year before, it had reached the value of 1.59.

    The summarized birth rate is used to describe the current birth behavior. It indicates how many children a woman would receive in the course of her life if her birth behavior were the same as that of all women between the ages of 15 and 49 in the year under consideration. All information refers to live born children.

    For women of German nationality, the fertility rate of 1.45 children per woman in 2017 was only slightly below the 2016 level (1.46 children per woman). For women of foreign nationality, she fell from 2.28 to 2.15 children per woman.

    In the eastern German states (excluding Berlin), in 2017 the combined fertility rate was higher with 1.61 children per woman than in western Germany (without Berlin) with 1.58. The country with the highest combined birth rate of 1.64 children per woman was Brandenburg. The lowest birth rate of 1.48 children per woman was recorded in Berlin.

    The average age of mothers at the birth of the child was 31 months and 2 months in 2017, two months higher than in 2016. Mothers were 29 on the first child in 2017 and 10 months old on average. In the second child, the mothers were almost 32 years old, the third child almost 33 years. The mothers are still younger at the birth of their child in the eastern German states than in the west of Germany. For the first child, the age difference was 11 months (almost 29 years in East Germany compared to almost 30 years in West Germany).

    The question of the number of children who have actually been given to women over the course of their lives can be answered for female cohorts who have reached the end of the childbearing age, which statistically is set at 49.In 2017, the women of the year 1968 reached the end of the childbearing phase. So far, this year has given the lowest number of children measured to date, averaging 1.49 children per woman. In women of the following younger years, probably in the late 1970s, the final average number of children will be higher than in the 1968 vintage. In these years, the end of the childbearing phase is not yet reached. Nevertheless, the already achieved number of children per woman is already higher in some cases than in the year 1968, or it is foreseeable that it will be higher due to the current development.


    https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pr...8_420_122.html

    In financial year 2018, according to preliminary results, 787,600 children were born alive in Germany. This was 2,700 or 0.3% more than in 2017 (2017: 784,900).

    https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Ge...rgebnisse.html

    The relevant points are now:

    For women of German nationality, the fertility rate of 1.45 children per woman in 2017 was only slightly below the 2016 level (1.46 children per woman). For women of foreign nationality, she fell from 2.28 to 2.15 children per woman.

    In women of the following younger years, probably in the late 1970s, the final average number of children will be higher than in the 1968 vintage. In these years, the end of the childbearing phase is not yet reached. Nevertheless, the already achieved number of children per woman is already higher in some cases than in the year 1968, or it is foreseeable that it will be higher due to the current development.

    Obviously a good economical situation is more important for german women, which want to bear children. Its the last 10 yearrs constant rising.

    Women of foreign nationality get lesser children, the longer they live in Germany, they adapt to the situation here.

    Further:

    As everyone can see:



    Most foreigners are european white christians. So 50 % of the non german babys are at least european white christian.

    I fear, Eurabia only happens in the fantasy of the far right.

    So ignore their intentionally untrue propaganda.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; June 23, 2019 at 01:22 PM.
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  8. #3608

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    You posted a bunch of irrelevant data to disrupt the debate from something you don't want people to know.
    Let's stick to the important ones:

    Immigration helps bump German birth rate to highest in decades
    https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...st-in-decades/

    Which was my claim. Case closed. Patriots 1 Liberals 0

    Currently in Germany 1 in 5 is foreigner and it'll be 1 in 4 in the next generation, progressively diluting the German stock. Then it'll be 1 in 3, then 1 in 2, then Germans will be extinct. I think your side agrees that's a good thing.
    https://www.spiegel.de/international...a-1203143.html

    Patriots 2 Liberals 0

  9. #3609
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Posting some cherrypicked newspaper articles, which fit in the own simple minded world view, doesn't change facts from official statistics.

    Ignoring the fact, that births of german women are increasing, while births of non german women are decreasing (fell from 2.28 to 2.15 children per woman) and adapting to German Birthrates can't extinct the german population.

    Its simple maths.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; June 23, 2019 at 01:59 PM.
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  10. #3610

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    Ignoring the fact, that births of german women are increasing, while births of non german women are decreasing (fell from 2.28 to 2.15 children per woman) and adapting to German Birthrates can't extinct the german population.
    Using just two years like that, you don't really have anything useful by which to make a prediction. You've got 1.80 > 1.86 > 1.95 > 2.28 > 2.15. That looks more like an upward trend so far. It could be just over a crest, but hard to say. It's dropped for single years before, but the trend has still been upward overall since 2004. And by the logic you're using, native German birthrates are also going down 1.46 > 1.45. Which I don't really buy, considering the statistics are based on the nationality of the mother and a large number of young foreign men willing to reproduce recently arrived without wives.

    The very slight upward trend of native German birthrates is still way below replacement rate. In other words, your population is going down the slump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  11. #3611

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen Sylva View Post
    Posting some cherrypicked newspaper articles, which fit in the own simple minded world view, doesn't change facts from official statistics.

    Ignoring the fact, that births of german women are increasing, while births of non german women are decreasing (fell from 2.28 to 2.15 children per woman) and adapting to German Birthrates can't extinct the german population.

    Its simple maths.


    Well, Sumskilz beat me to it, but apparently in liberal maths a stable 1.45 (fertility rate of German women, below the replacement level of 2.1) is higher than 2.15 of foreign women (in an uptrend).

    ''ITS SIMPLE MATHS''

    It's also simple grammar and your post fails at both.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; June 23, 2019 at 03:28 PM.

  12. #3612
    Ybbon's Avatar The Way of the Buffalo
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Calm down folks. Some posts deleted as off-topic and others for continuation. Do not go back to the accusations and counter post.

  13. #3613

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    SWEDEN YES
    Rapefugee culturally enriches little girl, claims he didn't know it was illegal.
    http://www.lokaltidningen.se/nyheter...r-5227501.html

  14. #3614
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    The funny thing is that population decline isn't even a long term problem. It would just increase again eventually. If you really wanted the population to be above recovery you would just give the populace some incentives to do so. Instead of importing tonnes of people which will just make the problem worse.

    The Left can't even Socialism anymore, it is amazing truly.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; June 25, 2019 at 07:02 AM. Reason: Unnecessary.

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  15. #3615

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Oh it's a bit more complicated than that. Most debt sustainability models were made decades ago during times of population growth, which results in larger GDP (but not share per capita), so they simply assumed that debt would be sustainable if population kept growing thus increasing gdp. Now it's not happening, so instead of dropping the model based on ''eternal growth'' they simply started drugging demographics.

    All of which is obviously ing retarded because that means population has to keep growing forever otherwise countries go bankrupt, meaning a 15, 20 bn population earth. These are the same people who suggest population control because of climate change.

    So the economic argument is retarded and once inserted in the broad social, environmental context it's even more retarded.

  16. #3616

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    A birthrate of 1.45 results in a population decline of 31% per generation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  17. #3617

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Germany has a net migration of something like 200k per year, they'll be ''fine''.

  18. #3618

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Well, you can't force people to have kids, nor should you try to. It's not the government's role to increase the national birth rate. If someone doesn't want to have three kids, that's really their right. Couples with below replacement level birth rates tend to be disproportionately left-wing and irreligious. Over time, they'll just remove themselves from society and religious conservatives will again predominate. The main problem facing Europe is the influx of foreigners. If you stop that, everything will be fine, long-term.
    Last edited by Prodromos; June 24, 2019 at 04:23 PM.
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  19. #3619

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Hm, the government (namely the parties in it) can and should provide a vision of society that focuses on self-preservation. Especially a conservative one, since it's the core of its values. Indeed, it can't force citizens, but nonetheless should encourage practices that lead to a happy and cohese society. I'd say most ''center-right'' parties in the past 30 years have been seduced by money and sold out on that one.
    You are right that left wingers tend to have less kids, if I recall correctly white libs in the US have the lowest fertility rate among all groups, but the problem remains: conservatives aren't making many either. Only diehard groups do. In the US the long term demographic trends says that at this rate Mormons and Amish will end up being half of the population by 2200. Fun times. Similarly Israel will be dominated by Haredi Jews. Europe lacks equivalents to that, unless you want to count Salafi Muslims.

  20. #3620

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    I don't have the numbers on me, but if religious conservatives typically have higher birth rates than average, and the average birth rate in European countries is 1.3-1.9, it seems reasonable to believe that the conservative Christian birth rate is at or above 2.1

    At least in America, the average birth rate is 1.77, but practicing evangelical Protestants and traditional Catholics have an average birth rate of 3, as do some smaller religious groups like Mormons and Orthodox Jews. I don't see why things would be different in Europe. There's surely more conservative Christians than Muslims.

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