Discussion and Debate Community Thread

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Yeah and it isn't comparable to the problem in the Middle East. Nor that which is being perpetrated by migrants. Get it?

[mishkin]

Yes, I think I finally get it: this has absolutely nothing to do with religion (a European Muslim is not more likely to abuse children than any other European), it's just a problem of abhorrent local customs in very specific regions.

[95thrifleman]

What I find interesting is this demand for muslims to have a higher standard of ethical behaviour than western societies and if they do not then "islam is evil"

Child marriage is legal in America, sex slavery is a serious problem in the UK within eastern european communities, paedophile gangs preying on prepubescent children are almost universaly white non-muslims but all the focus is on muslim gangs targeting 15-20 year olds.

[Prodromos]

Dhimmi logic:

Child marriage requires court approval in the US, therefore child marriage is legal and happens in the US.

Child marriage requires court approval in Saudi Arabia, therefore child marriage is illegal and doesn't happen in Saudi Arabia.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Yes, I think I finally get it: this has absolutely nothing to do with religion (a European Muslim is not more likely to abuse children than any other European), it's just a problem of abhorrent local customs in very specific regions.

Well if you want my honest opinion, it is pretty much irrelevant whether it is caused by religion or culture or social norms or poverty or whatever. What really matters is that it is being perpetrated by people from the MENA countries. So trying to figure out if this is caused by their religious doctrines isn't important. We know who is doing it, we know that they are in fact doing it, we even know how it happens and the why is not important.

Don't know if this is common among converts, if ISIS is any indication then maybe, but the Rotherham case etc were carried out by various people from places like Pakistan (majority), Afghanistan etc (426 suspects in all). What they all had in common is that they were Middle Eastern and Muslim.

[95thrifleman]

Well if you want my honest opinion, it is pretty much irrelevant whether it is caused by religion or culture or social norms or poverty or whatever. What really matters is that it is being perpetrated by people from the MENA countries. So trying to figure out if this is caused by their religious doctrines isn't important. We know who is doing it, we know that they are in fact doing it, we even know how it happens and the why is not important.

Don't know if this is common among converts, if ISIS is any indication then maybe, but the Rotherham case etc were carried out by various people from places like Pakistan (majority), Afghanistan etc (426 suspects in all). What they all had in common is that they were Middle Eastern and Muslim.

Since when was Pakistan middle east?

The UK has Arabian, Yemeni, African, Kosovo and west indies muslim populations yet the gangs are overwhelmingly pakistani have been involved in these rape gangs.

What does Pakistan (and India) have a problem with? Cultural attitudes that create a second class citizen status that allows for the rape and mistreatment of women.

[Mithradates]

this can be said about any illegal behavior in any part of the world. In europe, pedophilia and sexual abuse of minors are "common", although it is obviously prohibited.

The real difference is that in Europe you would get sentenced for it while in many countries the law is there because of international pressure, 21th century expectations etc. but the law is not being enforced irl.
It doesnt matter if its technically illegal.

[95thrifleman]

The real difference is that in Europe you would get sentenced for it while in many countries the law is there because of international pressure, 21th century expectations etc. but the law is not being enforced irl.
It doesnt matter if its technically illegal.

This is how the arabs deal with child rapists. Rape has been a capital offense in the middle east for centuries


The Saudis deal with Pakistani rape gangs by cutting their heads off

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1629659...a-rape-murder/

[mishkin]

Oda, you've gone from talking about specific rural areas to talking about MENA. Amazing generalization.

Nobody has raised arguments or data by which it can be said that a person, because of their religion, is more likely to be a pedophile or child abuser; Islam is not a religion of pedophiles and rapists, full stop (as far as I am concerned).

[Prodromos]

Article 2 of Saudi Arabia's Criminal Procedure Code:

No person shall be arrested, searched, detained, or imprisoned except in cases specified by the law. Detention or imprisonment shall be carried out only in the places designated for such purposes and shall be for the period prescribed by the competent authority. A person under arrest shall not be subjected to any bodily or moral harm. Similarly, he shall not be subjected to any torture or degrading treatment.

Well then, that settles it. There is no torture in Saudi Arabia. Whaddaya mean "torture is extremely widespread and systematic"? It's against the law. Any policeman who tortures detainees must be a rogue agent acting without government approval. Just report it to Internal Affairs and they'll swiftly put him in prison, I'm sure.

Frankly, I'm starting to believe people who say the Saudi government tortures people are just Islamophobic bigots, trying to slander a perfectly moral Islamic government, which by the way bans torture, unlike AmeriKKKa, where innocent Muslims are routinely tortured at Gitmo.



Oh Lord, deliver us from the ignorance of the dhimmi.

[mishkin]

the saudi regime is a criminal dictatorship, nobody is discussing that.

[95thrifleman]

the saudi regime is a criminal dictatorship, nobody is discussing that.

What seems to being discussed is "A muslim does something bad, ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL!" and "A christian does the same thing, ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL!"

[Prodromos]

And you don't think that criminal dictatorship's "ban" on child marriage, murder, rape, etc., is just for show? You really think the law in Saudi Arabia is the same in practice as on paper?

[Mithradates]

This is how the arabs deal with child rapists. Rape has been a capital offense in the middle east for centuries


The Saudis deal with Pakistani rape gangs by cutting their heads off

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1629659...a-rape-murder/

The Yemen video witch they were talking about:


You probably wont watch it so let me spoiler it to you, the guy who raped the 9 yo girl is still alive.

[mishkin]

the guy who raped the 9 yo girl is still alive.

Most catholic priests who abused children are still alive and exercising their profession. Injustices in one place, injustices in another, nothing new under the sun.

[Mithradates]

Most catholic priests who abused children are still alive and exercising their profession. Injustices in one place, injustices in another, nothing new under the sun.

This is how the arabs deal with child rapists. Rape has been a capital offense in the middle east for centuries

Looks like it is not.

You probably wont watch the video either so let me spoiler even more, the guy who raped the 9yo girl wasnt a priest or an imam, he is just a regular guy, a delivery driver, the practice is common in their society.

[mishkin]

Respectfully, you are not bringing anything new to this discussion.

[Mithradates]

Oh, I would love to bring new facts, but I only have these. Sorry, sometimes the world isn't what you would like it to be.

[PikeStance]

People are still conflating traditional attitude with religious beliefs. Yemen is probably one of the worse developed and more traditional societies you will find.

In Muslim culture, they often blame the female in cases of rape. This may be a shock to many, but that was not far back in Western history where the same attitude was prevalent. I do not recall the name of the movies, but it starts off with a young Irish girl raped by her boyfriend( or a friend who is male). She was sent essentially to a work prion run by some of the cruelest nuns ever. This was not ancient history either... 60's or 70s.... but these sorts of places di did not close until late 80s or 90s. Anyway, attitude towards rape is not as black and white as some of you would like to think it is.

[mishkin]

In Muslim culture, they often blame the female in cases of rape. This may be a shock to many, but that was not far back in Western history where the same attitude was prevalent.

Why you say "muslim culture"? Is it related to religion? Anyway, here (the christian western world), nowadays, you can still hear "she was dressing provocatively", "why she was there", etc.