Thread: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

  1. #6121
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    No, it isn't true. Several state governments have passed laws mandating that the state won't contract with businesses that boycott Israel. As far as I know, every legal challenge against these laws has been successful on first amendment grounds, but so far all the plaintiffs have been US citizens who are either independent contractors or small business owners, with the result generally being a change to the law so that it won't apply to such individuals.
    If you change the law, then it becomes rather useless. The point of these laws was to prevent independent contractors and business owners from boycotting Israel. So if the laws changed to not target them, then what is the point of the law anymore?

    If you tried to apply anti-BDS laws to large companies or corporations, they get struck down just as easily as the cases concerning small businesses and contractors.

  2. #6122

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    The reason why both sides of the Uniparty are confident in passing unconstitutional state laws is because average person doesn't have the moneybags to afford the lawfare that would potentially win the case if it gets appealed to SCOTUS.

  3. #6123

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    If you change the law, then it becomes rather useless. The point of these laws was to prevent independent contractors and business owners from boycotting Israel. So if the laws changed to not target them, then what is the point of the law anymore?

    If you tried to apply anti-BDS laws to large companies or corporations, they get struck down just as easily as the cases concerning small businesses and contractors.
    What are independent contractors and small business owners boycotting?

    Bamba?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Hamsas?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Filigree candle holders?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    There aren't really any Israeli consumer goods in the US for anyone to boycott, except kosher snacks and Judaica. In other words, stuff only Jews buy anyway. I suppose there is Sabra hummus, which is partially owned by an Israeli company, but produced in the US (and not very good compared to what they sell in Israel). The people who challenged these laws did so on principle, but big businesses aren't challenging the laws, so I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest these laws don't really have any tangible effect. They're about signaling.

    BDS doesn't really have any tangible effect on the Israeli economy in general. The main reason is because Israel's primary export is R&D. That is, Israeli companies own the patents to all sorts of high tech components. A business might be able to effectively boycott Israel if they vowed not to use any modern technology:

    The legacy of the Arab boycott also left the Israeli economy adept at dealing with such boycotts. Some Israeli firms are well versed in using third-country subsidiaries to bypass boycotts, where they still exist (such as in much of the Muslim world.) Much of the Israeli economy naturally grew to take advantage of opportunities that are less sensitive to boycotts.

    Today, the Israeli economy itself is far less susceptible to boycotts. A look at international trade data suggests that Israeli exports have evolved into being more unique and of higher quality, which implies that Israeli products cannot be substituted that easily by consumers. This means that successfully boycotting Israeli exports would be much harder today...

    In fact, the export basket of Israel has consistently moved towards high-technology goods, including semiconductors and other computer parts, as well as advanced machinery, pharmaceuticals and other products that are not easily replaceable. Banning Israeli goods would affect consumers in countries that currently import those goods, and it would be too complicated even for activists of the boycott movement themselves. View a video of a BDS rally, and there’s a fair chance the footage was taken on a device that utilizes Israeli technology: The boycott is broken before it begins.
    Since BDS began, Israel's GDP has doubled and foreign investment in the country has tripled. When a business decides to boycott Israel, they usually do so by refusing to do business in Israel, but then competitors just pick up the slack, competitors which are often Israeli owned companies, meaning again, there is no hit to the Israeli economy.

    Israel considers BDS a threat because of delegitimization, not because it's had any real economic effect, and these laws are just about pandering to people who care. BDS's only real success in the US has been in harassing Jews on campuses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  4. #6124
    Cookiegod's Avatar Civus Divus Ex Clibane
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz
    No, it isn't true. Several state governments have passed laws mandating that the state won't contract with businesses that boycott Israel. As far as I know, every legal challenge against these laws has been successful on first amendment grounds, but so far all the plaintiffs have been US citizens who are either independent contractors or small business owners, with the result generally being a change to the law so that it won't apply to such individuals.
    If you change the law, then it becomes rather useless. The point of these laws was to prevent independent contractors and business owners from boycotting Israel. So if the laws changed to not target them, then what is the point of the law anymore?

    If you tried to apply anti-BDS laws to large companies or corporations, they get struck down just as easily as the cases concerning small businesses and contractors.
    So you'd rather change the first amendment? You do realise that it is the hallmark of a free society that people generally get to decide what they want to spend their money on, including on their own sets of morals. Why you are against this most fundamental freedom is beyond me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The reason why both sides of the Uniparty are confident in passing unconstitutional state laws is because average person doesn't have the moneybags to afford the lawfare that would potentially win the case if it gets appealed to SCOTUS.
    It's a fairly standard tactic around the world. Sometimes it's done simply as a stop gap measure. E.g. if memory serves me correctly Germany did that not long ago, with the law simply being in effect until they got stopped. But you are right that if a blatantly unconstitutional law is allowed to stay in effect long term, then that is no longer simply a dirty trick, but a sign of institutional weakness/corruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  5. #6125

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    So you'd rather change the first amendment? You do realise that it is the hallmark of a free society that people generally get to decide what they want to spend their money on, including on their own sets of morals. Why you are against this most fundamental freedom is beyond me.
    At no point was it suggested that the 1A be repealed or replaced.



  6. #6126

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    It's a fairly standard tactic around the world. Sometimes it's done simply as a stop gap measure. E.g. if memory serves me correctly Germany did that not long ago, with the law simply being in effect until they got stopped. But you are right that if a blatantly unconstitutional law is allowed to stay in effect long term, then that is no longer simply a dirty trick, but a sign of institutional weakness/corruption.
    In liberal democracy you only have rights as far as you can afford legal expenses on proving that you indeed do (or have agency that will do it on your behalf for you), rendering the very framework on which society is built as faulty and unreliable.
    I agree that it isn't specific party's fault (both act this way because they legally can), its the inherent problem with liberal democracy, which always tends to stagnate and "evolve" into a more authoritarian oligarchy, where "freedoms" still exist on paper but severely limited to majority of population.

  7. #6127
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    So you'd rather change the first amendment? You do realise that it is the hallmark of a free society that people generally get to decide what they want to spend their money on, including on their own sets of morals. Why you are against this most fundamental freedom is beyond me.
    What the hell are you talking about? You don't need to change any amendments. Anti-BDS laws already violate the 1st Amendment.

  8. #6128

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    President Joe Biden has followed through on a campaign pledge by introducing a moratorium on new oil and gas leasing on federal lands and waters. With nearly 25 percent of U.S. oil and gas production coming from federal lands, the policy shift may have significant implications for future investment and production. The backlash from oil and gas producing states will be fierce and lawsuits have already begun, but the Biden administration views this policy as a key part of its climate agenda and is unlikely to change course.

    https://www.csis.org/analysis/biden-...and-gas-policy
    U.S. President Joe Biden's top aides are pressuring OPEC and its allies to boost oil output to tackle rising gasoline prices that they see as a threat to global economic recovery.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...bc-2021-08-11/
    Sen. Jon Tester, D-Montana, was one of just eight Democrats to vote with Republicans to pass the amendment from Sen. Kevin Cramer, R-ND, to the resolution prohibiting a ban on fracking.

    The amendment passed 57 to 42.

    Meanwhile, another amendment calling for an end to President Joe Biden’s moratorium on oil and gas leases on federal lands was rejected along party lines by a vote of 50 to 49.

    https://www.kfyrtv.com/2021/08/11/fr...atorium-fails/
    The Biden Admin is doing their best to crush domestic energy while calling on OPEC to increase production. Americans need to remember this in 2022-4. If Republicans don’t run on it they’re fools.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
    “To live without faith, without a heritage to defend, without battling constantly for truth, is not to live but to ‘get along’; we must never just ‘get along’.” - Pier Giorgio Frassati

  9. #6129
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Race and ethnicity highlights:


    • The White population remained the largest race or ethnicity group in the United States, with 204.3 million people identifying as White alone. Overall, 235.4 million people reported White alone or in combination with another group. However, the White alone population decreased by 8.6% since 2010.
    • The Two or More Races population (also referred to as the Multiracial population) has changed considerably since 2010. The Multiracial population was measured at 9 million people in 2010 and is now 33.8 million people in 2020, a 276% increase.
    • The “in combination” multiracial populations for all race groups accounted for most of the overall changes in each racial category.
    • All of the race alone or in combination groups experienced increases. The Some Other Race alone or in combination group (49.9 million) increased 129%, surpassing the Black or African American population (46.9 million) as the second-largest race alone or in combination group.
    • The next largest racial populations were the Asian alone or in combination group (24 million), the American Indian and Alaska Native alone or in combination group (9.7 million), and the Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone or in combination group (1.6 million).
    • The Hispanic or Latino population, which includes people of any race, was 62.1 million in 2020. The Hispanic or Latino population grew 23%, while the population that was not of Hispanic or Latino origin grew 4.3% since 2010.

    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...ce=govdelivery

    I'm curious, how this will influence future party programs.
    I'm no barbie doll I'm not your baby girl
    I've done ugly things and I have made mistakes
    And I am not as pretty as those girls in magazines
    I am rotten to my core if they're to be believed
    So what if I'm no baby bird hanging upon your every word?
    Nothing ever smells of roses that rises out of mud


    Garbage - Why do you love me


  10. #6130

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    If the Republican were smart, they'd have coopted the Latinos by now, since for all intents and purposes, they have about the same values.

    Tactically, they've gone full gerrymandering to make up the deficit; strategically, they seem to be sitting tight to see if Typhoid Donnie blows itself apart by the mid terms or the next Presidential primaries.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  11. #6131

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    The fast food restaurant was set on fire the day after Brooks’ killing, and people protesting police brutality camped out at the site during the weeks that followed. Makeshift barricades had been set up in the area by members of the Bloods street gang who were protesting the killing of Brooks. Willis said Brooks was also a member of the gang, but lawyers for his family said they had no knowledge of such an affiliation.

    Authorities said armed men had been blocking roads and turning some drivers away. As the driver of the SUV Secoriea was riding in approached the barricade, armed people began walking toward the vehicle and signaling that the driver couldn’t pass, according to officials.

    “We are alleging that Mr. Conley fired into the car when it failed to stop and respect their barricade and that led to the tragic killing of Secoriea Turner,” Willis said.

    Willis said both men are accused of manning the barricade and encouraging the commission of various crimes as part of their participation in the Bloods, including aiming a firearm at at least two other people in a car the same day Secoriea was killed.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...-girl-79447954
    To recap, here’s how many protesters showed up to lionize the drunken gang member who failed a breathalyzer test, stole a police officer’s taser, and fired on him while fleeing the scene:



    Here’s how many showed up to protest when his fellow criminals created an autonomous zone run by insurgents and killed a child for daring to cross their border:



    The lawlessness in this country is designed. How long until we the people demand to put a stop to the leftist shills who created it?


    More from woke racists running this clown world:

    Posey said she tried to enroll her daughter in a second grade class at Mary Lin last year but was met with resistance from the school.
    "When the principal reached out to me, I had already given her the selection for our children and she tried to sway me into one of the other two classes, the 'Black classes' — that was her phrase for the classrooms," Posey said.

    She said at the start of the last school year there were six second grade classes at Mary Lin Elementary. She claims all Black students were separated from White students and put into two of the six classes.

    "When she first told me, I was taken aback, I didn't understand. I asked her for more clarification. I was like, 'What do you mean? What is that? We have those?'"

    Posey asserted that the school has retaliated against her and her husband for what they've done. She said real change is needed at the school, but that the APS and the U.S. Department of Education are dragging their feet in rectifying the matter.

    https://www.yahoo.com/now/atlanta-mo...120000261.html
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; August 13, 2021 at 09:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
    “To live without faith, without a heritage to defend, without battling constantly for truth, is not to live but to ‘get along’; we must never just ‘get along’.” - Pier Giorgio Frassati

  12. #6132

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    How international scam artists pulled off an epic theft of COVID benefits

    Rufai’s case offers a small window into what law enforcement officials and private experts are calling the biggest fraud ever perpetrated against the United States, a significant portion of it carried out by foreigners.

    Russian mobsters, Chinese hackers and Nigerian scammers have used stolen identities to plunder tens of billions of dollars in COVID benefits, spiriting the money overseas in a massive transfer of wealth from American taxpayers, officials and experts say. And they say it’s still happening.

    Among the ripest targets for this cyber theft have been jobless programs. The federal government can’t say for sure how much of the more than $900 billion in pandemic-related unemployment relief has been stolen, but credible estimates range from $87 to $400 billion–at least half of which went to foreign criminals, law enforcement officials say.
    Ignore List (to save time):

    Exarch

  13. #6133

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    If the Republican were smart, they'd have coopted the Latinos by now, since for all intents and purposes, they have about the same values.
    When Republican values are that only whites are real Americans and all others, Latinos in particular, are dangerous sub-humans out to harm America, it's kinda hard to become inclusive. If they tried to reach out to Latinos, their white base would abandon them as "race-traitors" and become full-on Nazis.

  14. #6134

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    The only similarity between contemporary American Republicans and social-nationalist leaders of Central Europe in 30s is that they both breathe air and drink water. Its funny how Democrats fail at even understanding their opponents and use tried and rather dumb woke propaganda, the only result being making actual race-based groups rise in popularity.
    It seems that radlibs are pretty much a different side of same coin as neocons, both failing to address key issues that plague American society in particular and West in general.

  15. #6135

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    They're both looking for simple answers, and think authoritarianism is the way to resolve their issues in their favour.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  16. #6136

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Democrats are more pro-authoritarianism then Republicans. Its just that Democrats don't see it when they are the ones doing it.

  17. #6137

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Methodology tends to be the same, the goals differ a little.

    Essentially, both want to be gatekeepers to societal norms.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  18. #6138

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    The point is that if GOP was authoritarian, then they'd simply purge opposition, force Big tech to bend the knee or have their companies taken from them, then do the same to media. Instead GOP literally campaign s on preserving the right of Big Tech to deplatofrm them, which is pretty much irrational opposition to authoritarianism, the very opposite of what Democrats accuse GOP of.

  19. #6139

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    They'd have used covid to go full nazi and demand martial law, declare anyone exercising their constitutionally guaranteed rights under the first amendment to be terrorists that need to be stripped of their rights, summarily arrested, imprisoned and sent to Gitmo, as gutless communazis are wont to do...

  20. #6140

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    When then-President Barack Obama released five Taliban commanders from the Guantanamo Bay prison in exchange for an American deserter in 2014, he assured a wary public the dangerous enemy combatants would be transferred to Qatar and kept from causing any trouble in Afghanistan.
    In fact, they were left free to engineer Sunday’s sacking of Kabul.

    After raiding the presidential palace in Kabul, a group of armed Taliban fighters told Al Jazeera that they were arranging to bring back their Gitmo-paroled leadership from Qatar upon securing the capital. One unidentified fighter, who blasted America for “oppressing our people for 20 years,” claimed he had also been locked up at the Guantanamo Bay facility. It’s more evidence Gitmo catch-and-release policies facilitated the fall of Afghanistan to the enemy Washington vowed to crush after 9/11.

    https://nypost.com/2021/08/16/taliba...swap-by-obama/
    I remember when this happened. That POS Bergdahl. Up to that point, I’d never seen such borderline treasonous behavior from a POTUS. Now we’ve come full circle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
    “To live without faith, without a heritage to defend, without battling constantly for truth, is not to live but to ‘get along’; we must never just ‘get along’.” - Pier Giorgio Frassati

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