Thread: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

  1. #4461
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Eventually the humiliation becomes part of your every day experience and you dont even think about it

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  2. #4462
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Post around here more often so the experience is less embarrassing.
    I appreciate the message, but let's be honest; I am a bad debater and I can only contribute in few discussions, in which the same stupidities answered and refuted a thousand times come up again. Also, in each discussion that I read more than half of the messages are conspiracy stupidities, disguised opinions (because you can't appear in this forum as openly racist, homophobic, macho, etc.), and one liners designed to mock or provoke someone.

    Re: Post of the fortnight: Good debaters can try to raise their level a bit, the rest of us we keep posting the usual crap (some we try to quit). I know that all this is very negative and in principle not productive at all, but maybe some user wants to rethink their actions here. (Yes, I am talking to you. ) (Not you, Legio)
    Last edited by mishkin; March 03, 2020 at 04:26 AM. Reason: awesome english
    So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:16).

  3. #4463
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/scie...ates-1.2926375

    What are your takes on this Irish Times piece?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  5. #4465
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Alarmism. Not only that, he implies immigrants can't adopt the culture of the nation they are immigrating to.

  6. #4466
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Can’t or won’t?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  7. #4467
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Can’t or won’t?
    Both. He states that immigration will eventually "replace" the indigenous culture. That implies both won't and can't.

    Some of his statistics are ridiculous too. Like mentioning that by 2300 if population trends remained the same for the next over 200 years Italy would have only 1% of its population left. He then compares this to animals going extinct. Its kind of ridiculous. You can't predict population that far into the future.

  8. #4468

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Well the subheader is this,

    "How did we lose the will to replace ourselves and, knowing the demographic consequences of losing that will, can we reclaim it?"

    So I didn't have much hope to begin with and I was pretty much correct. This is the same sort of fear-mongering non-sense that attempts to use statistics and other numbers in an attempt to contrive a coherent argument. It obviously ignores many contextual factors on both the macro and the micro scale. One major point is that while it is true that immigrants have higher birth rates, many second generation immigrants will not. This pewresearch article is particularly informing, note the section that says "Nonmarital childbearing". Here is the relevant text,

    In what some scholars have described as a pattern of negative assimilation, 41% of second-generation women who recently gave birth were unmarried, compared with 23% of immigrant women who recently gave birth. The higher share of nonmarital childbearing among the second generation has been driven mostly by second-generation Hispanic women (52% of these women with a recent birth were unmarried). Among the U.S. population as a whole, 36% of women who recently gave birth were not married.
    Why specifically Latinos? Because latino immigrants is one of the largest immigrant groups in the United States, as well as one that's predominantly on the low end of the income bracket. Note that this characteristic of "nonmarital childbearing" is also shared with another prominent American demographic, albeit a non-immigrant one, African Americans. In short what this tells us is that birth rates are not just linked to immigration status, but wealth and education. Notably both categories which African Americans and Latinos tend to fall behind.



    Note that particularly in United States, the word "immigrant" is fairly meaningless in the sense that children of immigrants become more and more Americanized. Are Italian Americans still foreign? Are Irish Americans? Asian Americans? 2nd and 3rd generation Latino Americans? I could go on, but at a certain point ethnic demographics are fairly meaningless and tell you nothing about your ratio of "foreigners" to "natives". After all, some of the most conservative and American people I've met were naturalized citizens who believed in a nuclear family, tight border control, and low taxes. Additionally, here's a PBS article that talks about immigration where Hans-Peter Kohler (Ph. D. Sociology, Univ. of Penn.) specifically says, "I don't immigration has a big factor in this story. So, immigrant fertility adjusts relatively quickly to the U.S. native fertility. And I don't think changes in immigration policy, immigration flows had a big contribution to these recent declines in total fertility rates." I am inclined to agree from my anecdotal evidence. Do I know many 2nd generation immigrants who have lots of kids? Sure, a few. However, most of my class has no to very few children and were are all in our mid 20s.

    In my eyes, the most important thing for the government to do is to provide more avenues for assimilation and I would especially focus on the kids. Even in very conservative and religious households, children tend to become more liberal and American than their parents. I know people who became “less American” over time. A couple of my Indian friends become more involved with their Indian community and one of them became a pretty devout Sikh, but he also watches anime and studies Ninja stuff… And obviously everybody contributes to the work force in one way or another. Treating immigration as a problem of a zero-sum game is extremely short sighted.

  9. #4469
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    What are your takes on this Irish Times piece?
    The Emeritus Professor of Biochemistry either doesn't know how statistics work or he intentionally misrepresents their data. His arbitrary assumption that trends will remain the same for hundreds of years is completely baseless and reminds me of the Nature's historical gaffe, when it predicted that female athletes will eventually surpass the records of their male colleagues. Of course, nothing of that sort ever happened or is going to happened. Europe experienced a sudden population growth because of industrialisation and urbanisation. The same occurred to the rest of the world lately in the middle and late 20th century. As population increases reach their limits and societies transit into service-orientated economies, fertility rates and even absolute numbers will decline, until they stabilise into a new average that more suitably corresponds to the general conditions.

    The irony is that fertility rates have already been declining in most parts of the Earth (not to mention East Asia, where the situation is much more extreme than Europe), since urbanisation and industrialisation has already produced its fruits, while women are progressively integrated into production. Middle East itself has already experienced a quiet demographic revolution, so the prospect of the an Islamic Crescent expansion seems to weaken continuously. Finally, his narrative about culture looks Manichean and seems to be inspired from largely discredited theories of the last century. In any case, popular culture is more inspired from financial and political supremacy, as Santa Claus and the Chinese Dragon can confirm, not by sheer numbers. Given that the balance of force will not be changed by the infusion of south hemisphere proletarians, I would argue that it's more probable to see Iranian imams eating croissants for breakfast than French cathedrals being orientated towards Mecca instead of Jerusalem.

  10. #4470

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Funnily enough Abdul, particularly in China, migrant female workers (women from the countryside) were the first choice workers in China's factories as it started its industrial boom in the 70s-80s. Women's "natural" compliance, more precise motor skills (from knitting? lol), and lower wages made them the most sought out labor commodity in China. Unfortunately, as women's tendency to migrate back to their hometowns after earning money, their dwindling numbers as more factories sprung up, and their desire to start families caused a labor shortage that forced factories to employ more and more men.

    As we all know, there is actually a shortage of women rather than men in China. We may actually see a trend of women's participation in the labor force eventually decrease rather than increase as China moves up the value chain and continues to suffer from a shortage of women.

  11. #4471
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    @Aexodus.

    1 - Marry your old time neighbour, ignore brown skinned non christian girls.

    2 - Make of your "culture" something appealing to newcomers.
    So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:16).

  12. #4472
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    @Aexodus.

    1 - Marry your old time neighbour, ignore brown skinned non christian girls.
    Excuse me. What is this supposed to mean.

    2 - Make of your "culture" something appealing to newcomers.
    Why the quotation marks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  13. #4473
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Excuse me. What is this supposed to mean.
    Do your part, have a progeny of pretty white children.

    Why the quotation marks.
    Dont know what you could call your culture. Football, tea, Robbie Williams and beer?
    So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:16).

  14. #4474
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    @Aexodus.

    1 - Marry your old time neighbour, ignore brown skinned non christian girls.

    2 - Make of your "culture" something appealing to newcomers.
    Finally some advice to live by.

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Do your part, have a progeny of pretty white children.
    Ahh yes, the fourteen ten words.

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  15. #4475

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    TsTs, what has happened with the good ol' "Mom and Dad, this is Casey. Casey, this is my Mom and Dad. Now show me T...!" ?

    In dark and sad times we live. I like it.
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  16. #4476

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Ops i did it again...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Saudi Prince Detains Senior Members of Royal Family


    Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has detained a brother of the king, a former crown prince and a cousin, royals who may have been seen as threats to his rule.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/06/w...gtype=Homepage

    In my opinion Saudi Arabia is going into a dark future with a paranoid king, which is striking hard against real or possible threats to his rule.
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  17. #4477
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    I think Saudi Arabia has been in a dark future it's entire existence.

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  18. #4478
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Every time I see a "userwhatever88" I am tempted to ask him. Surely they all have very obvious and innocent explanations. Probably most of them were born in 1988.
    So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:16).

  19. #4479
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    I wonder if anyone with that username has ever had a slow realization of why everyone seems to hate and distrust them at first.

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  20. #4480

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