Discussion and Debate Community Thread

[AqD]

Are you talking about China? You know who killed (they killed him?) the last emperor right? Really bad example.

He wasn't killed. He signed a pact with the republic ensuring his safety.

Commies didn't respect the pact and sent him to gulag.

Also he wasn't a Han emperor but a nomadic Manchurian oppressor. Chinese was always referred to Han exclusively until he cowardly surrendered Manchuria, Mongolia, Tibet and Xinjiang to the new republic and forced those people to join.

By the way, I don't think a French peasant lived much better than a Chinese peasant in the 18th century.

Did french peasants need to kneel whenever any government official passes by?

Did they get a beating whenever they are dragged to court? And tortured until admitting whatever crimes they were accused of?

Were they not able to afford meat outside of christmas?

Were French men required to shave a particular hairstyle or face punshiment of beheading?

[mishkin]

You have chosen a very bad example of how "the West" offered progress and enlightment to "the Easterners". Maybe you can choose another example or change focus.

A French peasant could be physically and sexually abused by any petty nobleman in the 18th century, and later as well.

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[sumskilz]

A French peasant could be physically and sexually abused by any petty nobleman in the 18th century, and later as well.

By the end of the 18th century, France had abolished feudalism and enacted universal rights for male citizens. While peasants weren’t legally equal prior to that nor were women afterward, both had certain rights and legal protections even if they weren’t always enforced. I can’t say that I know a lot about France during that period nor much at all about China, but if what AqD is describing is accurate, I’d say French peasants probably were much better off at the time, even if they were obviously much worse off than what we’re used to now.

[mishkin]

It's my fault we've gotten lost in legislative relativism.

You know who brought the notion of human rights and democracy to the rest of the world, give them a chance to wake up from centuries of serfdom and have a life beyond strugging to stay alive?

If someone wants to defend this (I am not saying that it is impossible to try to link classical Greece, the French Enlightenment, Marx and non-western cultures and their refusal to escape from misery) go ahead.

[AqD]

If someone wants to defend this (I am not saying that it is impossible to try to link classical Greece, the French Enlightenment, Marx and non-western cultures and their refusal to escape from misery) go ahead.

The very notion of human rights and freedom didn't exist in far east. Here is one example:

The most privileged class in Qing empire were bannermen (and women), the same race as the royal family or otherwise tribes / families who joined during the initial conquest. Their position was inherited by all family members and can never disappear. They had free land which they didn't need to farm, free handouts, free education in a country of illiterates, servant families (basically free slaves), and priority and advantages in government job recruitments.

Think they're happy? They can't quit. They were bound to their military banner, effectively imprisoned inside inner fortresses in walled cities all their life, and moved wherever their unit was assigned. They can't interact with ordinary people, they can't choose any job that's not provided by the government, and they can't travel anywhere without official reason and approval, and their children and children's children were all bound to the same fate, with no way out.

[mishkin]

Seriously, what are you defending? The moral or ideological superiority of "the West" over the "East"? Do you know how generic your comments are? Do you realize that you are choosing very specific dates and places and subjects to defend your Western supremacism?