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Thread: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

  1. #4101
    irontaino's Avatar Deadass B
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Is it really so crazy to think that a country such as the United States (who's entire history was 200 so years of slavery, de jure segregation, and the Jim Crow laws and only some 50-odd years of equal rights being enacted into law only through decades of protest) has institutions that favor the majority white population? After all, what do you think became of the police officers that beat the hell out of protesters demanding equal rights? What do you think happened to the politicians that fought tooth and nail to oppose the civil rights movement? The correct answer is they kept their jobs and influences future generations of law enforcement and lawmakers.
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  2. #4102

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    The privilege is derived from society no where else. Given that societies frequently place importance of race, especially historically, why does race seem like such an insane category when it comes to social privilege?
    Your first point is false. "Privilege" is as often derived from nature and good fortune as it is from "society". As to your second point, I'm well aware that throughout history the elite have deliberately disadvantaged certain ethnic groups to service their own interests. That doesn't mean that the groups which weren't/aren't a direct target of state sponsored racial exploitation were/are "privileged"; they too were/are often also disadvantaged and exploited. I believe, for example, that working men in industrial England during the early 19th century had poorer diets and a lower life expectancy than African American slaves laboring in the United States during the same time period.

  3. #4103

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    No it is not. Lumping hundreds of millions of people of different backgrounds, economic means, abilities etc. into a box and claiming that they have some sort of mythical privilege is nonsense. It really does amaze me that anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of history would believe that this garbage is anything other than yet another expression of elitist racialism.
    Utter nonsense. Broad characterization of a demographic have been made, can be made, and for some purposes, should be made. The idea that Whites, as a demographic, do not enjoy significant advantages over minorities is ridiculous.

  4. #4104

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Utter nonsense. Broad characterization of a demographic have been made, can be made, and for some purposes, should be made. The idea that Whites, as a demographic, do not enjoy significant advantages over minorities is ridiculous.
    I suppose you'll be popularizing the phrase "Jewish privilege" and "Oriental privilege" to reflect the greater educational, financial and health outcomes for people of Ashkenazi and East Asian backgrounds living in the United States then?
    Last edited by ep1c_fail; August 14, 2019 at 10:18 PM.

  5. #4105

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    I suppose you'll be popularizing the phrase "Jewish privilege" and "Oriental privilege" to reflect the greater educational, financial and health outcomes for people of Ashkenazi and East Asian backgrounds living in the United States then?
    No, because the context is not the same. Though I'm sure they have a different term for "Ashkenazi privilege" in Israel. Revisionist historians there are always criticizing the establishment. Obsession with semantics is not productive, especially when the term is useful to describe the racial dynamics in United States.

  6. #4106

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    Your first point is false. "Privilege" is as often derived from nature and good fortune as it is from "society".
    I mean, "privilege" in the term "social privilege" is specifically referring to, you know, privilege from society. That's the point.
    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    As to your second point, I'm well aware that throughout history the elite have deliberately disadvantaged certain ethnic groups to service their own interests. That doesn't mean that the groups which weren't/aren't a direct target of state sponsored racial exploitation were/are "privileged"; they too were/are often also disadvantaged and exploited. I believe, for example, that working men in industrial England during the early 19th century had poorer diets and a lower life expectancy than African American slaves laboring in the United States during the same time period.
    Of course, there are many metrics to social privilege of varying importance; coming from a wealthy family is a more potent privilege than having a certain skin color (though they each have different societal consequences). I haven't hear about the industrial worker diet thing before, but I have a hard time believe that even poor Englishmen in the 19th century was as bad or worse off than a literal chattel slave.
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  7. #4107

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Of course, there are many metrics to social privilege of varying importance; coming from a wealthy family is a more potent privilege than having a certain skin color (though they each have different societal consequences). I haven't hear about the industrial worker diet thing before, but I have a hard time believe that even poor Englishmen in the 19th century was as bad or worse off than a literal chattel slave.
    It's actually not that hard to believe when you become familiar with industrial history. Slaves were financial assets, urban workers were not. During the early period of the industrial revolution when regulations were virtually non existent, factory owners could work their laborers for 16+ hours a day in abysmal conditions and on wages so pitiful that they could barely afford to eat. If a worker died from malnutrition, disease (which was more common in tightly packed urban areas than it was in country) or from injuries sustained on the job, he/she could be replaced for a pittance. By contrast, slaves were reasonably expensive and their owners had a financial interest in keeping them healthy.

  8. #4108

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Though I'm sure they have a different term for "Ashkenazi privilege" in Israel.
    Just "Ashkenazi privilege" as in English because it's a very recent borrowing from American progressives:

    In light of the often-heated conversations surrounding intersectionality that have blossomed throughout the US in the past decade, a parallel rift has emerged within the American Jewish community – the alleged distinction between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews. This degree of separation serves as a frequent talking point for various Jewish influencers, namely pro-Israel activist, Hen Mazzig.[1] As a half Mizrahi, half Ashkenazi Jew myself, I hold the fixation on such discrepancies within the Jewish community as perilous against the backdrop of revived levels of global anti-Semitism.

    Throughout their time in Diaspora, Ashkenazi (immediate ancestors in Europe) and Mizrahi (immediate ancestors in the Middle East) Jews have understandably developed various unique traditions. For example, Gefilte fish represent an Ashkenazi delicacy not found among Mizrahim, just as Ashkenazim rarely indulge in Hawaij and Aden. That said, the one location in the world where both cuisine types tend to intersect is Israel – which brings us to the hottest point of contention:

    As the Islamic world and western left continue to frame Israel as a European colonialist outpost in the Middle East full of “white Jews” seeking to oppress “non-white Arabs”, an alarming chunk of the global Jewish community has fallen into the trap of divide and blame. Namely, provided the financial and political success of majority Ashkenazi Jews in the US and Israel, many Mizrahim and non-Jews have come to conflate Ashkenazim with white Europeans, almost a sort of ‘false Jew’ or, at the very least, Jews who are too removed from Israel and the Middle East to be considered legitimate or even at risk of oppression.

    This categorization of Ashkenazim as “privileged white people” is not only dangerous, as any kind of divide among the already minuscule world Jewish population facilitates the goal of those wishing to victimize us – furthermore, such a label is also inaccurate. After all, the synagogue shootings in Pittsburgh, PA,[2] and Poway, CA,[3] within the past year alone targeted communities of majority Ashkenazi Jews. In neither case did the white supremacist assailants choose to spare these Jewish individuals because of their skin tone or their ancestors’ residence in Europe. Moreover, the Jewish caricatures included in the recent Belgian street parade[4] specifically targeted Ashkenazi Jews living in Belgium, complete with the long-held stereotype of the large hooked nose, a physical trait also commonly observed throughout western media when portraying Arabs.[5] Unfortunately, however, the western left has taken to labeling Ashkenazim as “occupiers” and “fake Jews”[6] to claim indigeneity to the Levant, accusations that Mizrahim typically do not experience, despite the latter two groups’ proven common ancestry.[7]

    All that being said, we cannot deny the existence of Ashkenormativity in the US and Israel – the former due to the majority of American Jews being Ashkenazi, while the latter stems from the fact that most of Israel’s original founding fathers in 1948 were also Ashkenazim. Therefore, despite such Ashkenazi dominance in these circles, this tipped scale has everything to do with history and nothing to do with skin tone, especially since not all Ashkenazim have fair skin – two of the most notable examples being the well-known Ashkenazi actors, Jeff Goldblum and Oded Fehr.

    Thus, an issue arises when Mizrahi Jewish influencers such as Hen Mazzig strive to paint all Ashkenazim as a lump sum of Jewish privilege. When faced with the threat of white supremacy, the entire Jewish community worldwide – along with Muslims, such as the victims of the Christchurch atrocities[8] – must stand in solidarity, rather than creating victimhood hierarchies based on Diasporic discrepancies and perceived similarity to “white” Europeans.
    The Dangerous Myth of Ashkenazi Privilege

    The Times of Israel author only mentions Hen Mazzig by name, and he seems to be the original source and primary disseminator. That's probably accurate. I actually know Hen Mazzig from Seattle, so I know where he got his ideas. He was at the University of Washington when I was still there.

    It's as if he learned nothing:

    Hen Mazzig had been a member of Israel’s most left-wing party. But that didn’t prepare him for the sheer level of Israelaphobic craziness that he would encounter on campuses in the Pacific Northwest...

    And during a presentation in Seattle, I spoke about my longing for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. When I was done, a woman in her 60’s stood up and yelled at me, “You are worse than the Nazis. You are just like the Nazi youth!”

    A number of times I was repeatedly accused of being a killer, though I have never hurt anyone in my life.

    On other occasions, anti-Israel activists called me a rapist. The claims go beyond being absurd – in one case, a professor asked me if I knew how many Palestinians have been raped by IDF forces. I answered that as far as I knew, none.

    She triumphantly responded that I was right, because, she said, “You IDF soldiers don’t rape Palestinians because Israelis are so racist and disgusted by them that you won’t touch them.”
    Ex-Israeli Soldier Denounced On Us Campus for NOT Raping Palestinian Women

    His job in the army was as an officer coordinating with the UN, Palestinian Authority, and various NGOs to build schools, hospitals, and infrastructure for the Palestinians in the West Bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  9. #4109
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Is it really so crazy to think that a country such as the United States (who's entire history was 200 so years of slavery, de jure segregation, and the Jim Crow laws and only some 50-odd years of equal rights being enacted into law only through decades of protest) has institutions that favor the majority white population? After all, what do you think became of the police officers that beat the hell out of protesters demanding equal rights? What do you think happened to the politicians that fought tooth and nail to oppose the civil rights movement? The correct answer is they kept their jobs and influences future generations of law enforcement and lawmakers.
    Can you name some of these institutions?

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  10. #4110
    irontaino's Avatar Deadass B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Can you name some of these institutions?
    The entire criminal justice system, for starters. The current Republican party is another fun one.
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  11. #4111

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    "Female offenders of all races received shorter sentences than White male offenders during the Post-Report period, as they had for the prior four periods."

    Female privilege.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  12. #4112

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    "Female offenders of all races received shorter sentences than White male offenders during the Post-Report period, as they had for the prior four periods."

    Female privilege.
    Is it based on the same crimes? Or average sentences for overall?
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  13. #4113

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Is it based on the same crimes?
    Yeah, for the same crimes and "controlling for a wide variety of sentencing factors". More detail from the full report:

    As depicted in Figure 3, female offenders, regardless of their race, received sentences that were shorter, on average, than sentences for White male offenders during the Post-Report period. This finding is consistent with the differences observed in all prior periods. White female offenders received sentences that were 28.9 percent shorter than those of White male offenders in the Post-Report period, compared to 31.1 percent shorter during the Gall period. Black female offenders and Other Race female offenders also received shorter sentences than White male offenders during the Post-Report period, at 29.7 percent and 35.4 percent shorter respectively, compared to 33.1 percent and 34.6 percent in the Gall period, respectively. Hispanic female offenders received sentences that were 16.8 percent shorter than those of White male offenders during the Post-Report period, compared to 18.2 percent in the Gall period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  14. #4114

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Yeah, for the same crimes and "controlling for a wide variety of sentencing factors". More detail from the full report:
    Can you indicate the paragraph where it says they compare criminals being prosecuted for similar crimes with similar criminal histories?
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  15. #4115

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Can you indicate the paragraph where it says they compare criminals being prosecuted for similar crimes with similar criminal histories?
    The entirety of appendices B and C, pages 26 to 32.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  16. #4116

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    The entirety of appendices B and C, pages 26 to 32.
    They don't seem to have attempted to compare groups of similar context.
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  17. #4117

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    They don't seem to have attempted to compare groups of similar context.
    I don't know what you mean specifically. Appendix C lists the variables in the multivariate regression analysis. I'm sure there are reasonable criticisms to be made regarding what additional variables could be added, but keep in mind, this is the same data and methodology that's being used to claim that black males are receiving higher sentences than white males for the same crimes. The disparity in sentencing between females of any race and white males is three to four times greater than the disparity between white males and black males in most categories. For that reason, any variance in the data due to unaccounted for factors is more likely to disprove the claim that black males are over-sentenced relative to white males than it is to disprove that females of all races are significantly under-sentenced relative to white males. At least this is an apples to apples nationwide comparison that has been replicated several times.
    Last edited by sumskilz; August 15, 2019 at 07:15 AM. Reason: ...and methodology
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  18. #4118

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I don't know what you mean specifically. Appendix C lists the variables in the multivariate regression analysis. I'm sure there are reasonable criticisms to be made regarding what additional variables could be added, but keep in mind, this is the same data and methodology that's being used to claim that black males are receiving higher sentences than white males for the same crimes. The disparity in sentencing between females of any race and white males is three to four times greater than the disparity between white males and black males in most categories. For that reason, any variance in the data due to unaccounted for factors is more likely to disprove the claim that black males are over-sentenced relative to white males than it is to disprove that females of all races are significantly under-sentenced relative to white males. At least this is an apples to apples nationwide comparison that has been replicated several times.
    For starters, it doesn't consider attitude of the offender in court. It doesn't seem to consider past criminal history of the offender. It doesn't seem to consider how a particular crime is committed as well. It's like the pay gap. You need to compare people with similar work experience and skills doing the exact same job; criminals with similar criminal histories committing the same crime the same way.

    Nonetheless, trying to use this to undermine the fact that any black man is worse off in the eyes of judiciary and executive institutions of USA is a futile attempt at best, or a pathetic one at worst, to deflect from a reality. We have cops shooting 12 year old black kids because the kid held a toy gun while they try to subdue a white guy without hurting him who guns blazing killed a bunch of people. We have cops that see it in themselves to sue a black guy whose blood was spilled on their uniforms due to cops' brutal beating because the guy was trying to tell them that they had the wrong guy, which they did. There is enough data to know very well how blacks are treated with discrimination in USA. To try to hide that racism under the rug through such lowly tactics doesn't help the conversation much.
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  19. #4119

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    For starters, it doesn't consider attitude of the offender in court.
    That's correct, it does not. How would one quantify the attitude of the offender in court in order to control for it? I'd say that knowing that they did not tells us next to nothing. Maybe black males on average had a worse attitude in court than white males. Maybe females of all races had on average a better attitude in court than white males. It's possible it could skew the data, but that gap to make up is several times greater between females of all races and white males than it is between white males and black males.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It doesn't seem to consider past criminal history of the offender.
    From the report:

    As discussed above, the Commission’s 2012 Booker Report and its 2010 Booker Multivariate Analysis noted that judges make sentencing decisions based on many legal factors and other legitimate considerations, and that data regarding some of these considerations was not included in the Commission’s regression analyses because it was not readily available.32 One specific example concerned information about violence in an offender’s criminal history. As the Commission explained in 2010:

    [A] judge sentencing two offenders convicted of similar crimes with the same criminal history score under the federal sentencing guidelines might impose a longer sentence on the offender with a more violent criminal past than on the offender with a less violent, or nonviolent, criminal history. Similarly, a judge sentencing two offenders convicted of similar crimes might be influenced by the presence of violence in one case that was not present in the other case and was not reflected in the final offense level for those cases as determined under the sentencing guidelines.33

    To address this issue, the Commission examined cases in which the offender was sentenced in fiscal year 2016 and collected information about the types of prior offenses for which the offender had been sentenced, including both federal and state crimes.34 Using this data,the Commission determined whether the offender had ever committed a violent offense.35 This data was then included in the Commission’s regression analysis to assess whether adding the data had any effect on the demographic differences in sentencing that had been observed...

    As can be seen in figures 14 and 15, the addition of the variable indicating a prior conviction for a violent offense had almost no effect on the contribution of race and gender to the sentence of the offender after controlling for all other factors.
    Female privilege:



    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nonetheless, trying to use this to undermine the fact that any black man is worse off in the eyes of judiciary and executive institutions of USA is a futile attempt at best, or a pathetic one at worst, to deflect from a reality. We have cops shooting 12 year old black kids because the kid held a toy gun while they try to subdue a white guy without hurting him who guns blazing killed a bunch of people. We have cops that see it in themselves to sue a black guy whose blood was spilled on their uniforms due to cops' brutal beating because the guy was trying to tell them that they had the wrong guy, which they did. There is enough data to know very well how blacks are treated with discrimination in USA. To try to hide that racism under the rug through such lowly tactics doesn't help the conversation much.
    As soon as you use an absolute like "any black man" you are certainly wrong. An absolute can be disproven with a single counter example. Whereas, you're using anecdotes (from a statistical perspective) to support claims regarding overarching demographic trends. That would be two logical flaws back to back.

    I'm agnostic regarding the cause(s) of the moderate statistical difference in sentences between white males and black males, but I do note the hypocrisy in anyone who who would simultaneously dismiss the disparity between females and males which is several times greater. For example, the gap between black females and white males is several times greater than between white males and black males, so certainly it's not all about race. I got the impression it was being suggested that there may be valid reasons females receive such lower sentences, maybe so, but then why act as if it's unthinkable that the same could be true for different categories of males on a statistical level?

    Regarding fatal shootings:

    Abstract: Despite extensive attention to racial disparities in police shootings, two problems have hindered progress on this issue. First, databases of fatal officer-involved shootings (FOIS) lack details about officers, making it difficult to test whether racial disparities vary by officer characteristics. Second, there are conflicting views on which benchmark should be used to determine racial disparities when the outcome is the rate at which members from racial groups are fatally shot. We address these issues by creating a database of FOIS that includes detailed officer information. We test racial disparities using an approach that sidesteps the benchmark debate by directly predicting the race of civilians fatally shot rather than comparing the rate at which racial groups are shot to some benchmark. We report three main findings: 1) As the proportion of Black or Hispanic officers in a FOIS increases, a person shot is more likely to be Black or Hispanic than White, a disparity explained by county demographics; 2) race-specific county-level violent crime strongly predicts the race of the civilian shot; and 3) although we find no overall evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities in fatal shootings, when focusing on different subtypes of shootings (e.g., unarmed shootings or “suicide by cop”), data are too uncertain to draw firm conclusions. We highlight the need to enforce federal policies that record both officer and civilian information in FOIS.
    Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

    Abstract: The debate over possible bias in the use of deadly force has recently been exacerbated by highly publicized killings of African American males around the country. While much research has been conducted examining police behavior, little has been done to investigate the impact of race on police behavior. This article aims to answer this question: are white police officers more likely to use lethal force on minority suspects or people of a specific race? To answer this question, the authors construct a data set of all confirmed uses of lethal force by police officers in the United States in 2014 and 2015. They find that although minority suspects are disproportionately killed by police, white officers appear to be no more likely to use lethal force against minorities than nonwhite officers.
    Do White Law Enforcement Officers Target Minority Suspects?
    Last edited by sumskilz; August 15, 2019 at 12:00 PM. Reason: formatting
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  20. #4120

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    For starters, it doesn't consider attitude of the offender in court. It doesn't seem to consider past criminal history of the offender. It doesn't seem to consider how a particular crime is committed as well. It's like the pay gap. You need to compare people with similar work experience and skills doing the exact same job; criminals with similar criminal histories committing the same crime the same way.

    Nonetheless, trying to use this to undermine the fact that any black man is worse off in the eyes of judiciary and executive institutions of USA is a futile attempt at best, or a pathetic one at worst, to deflect from a reality. We have cops shooting 12 year old black kids because the kid held a toy gun while they try to subdue a white guy without hurting him who guns blazing killed a bunch of people. We have cops that see it in themselves to sue a black guy whose blood was spilled on their uniforms due to cops' brutal beating because the guy was trying to tell them that they had the wrong guy, which they did. There is enough data to know very well how blacks are treated with discrimination in USA. To try to hide that racism under the rug through such lowly tactics doesn't help the conversation much.
    Often, the similar types of shootings of white by cops simply don't get the same press coverage. The shooting of a white paraplegic who was armed only with a pen is not much less eregious than the shooting of a kid armed with a toy pistol. The shooting of a woman in her pajamas by a cop in a patrol car simply because he thought he heard a loud noise simply doesn't get the same press coverage. Just as many whites are shot and killed by police as blacks, and while that means as a percentage blacks were more likely to be killed, blacks were also by roughly the same proportion more likely to commit murder - slightly half the murders in the US are committed by African Americans. When dealing with African Americans police are statistically more likely to be dealing with a dangerous situation that with whites, and the police respond accordingly. You hear about African Americans killed by white cops, but you don't hear about blacks being killed by black cops, not because it doesn't happen, but because the media simply doesn't report it to the same degree. The fact is, there is no evidence that black are killed by white cops at a higher rate than black cops. Do I think there is a problem with how the police are trained, and that many cops panic and use unnecessary deadly force? Yes, but it is not confined to just blacks, it is just blacks are just more likely to be found in deadly situation than their white counterparts.

    Nothing shows the media bias than in the Martin shooting. Contrary to popular claims, years before the Martin shooting, the roles were reverse, with a black neighborhood watchman shooting an unarmed white student, and the black neighborhood watchmn was aquitted. And unlike Zimmerman, Roderick Scott was not even touched by the white student he shot, Scott shot multiple times, and deliberately armed himself before he left the safety of his house to confront the white student, and several eyewitnesses contradicted Scott's version of events. Yet Scott was aquitted nonetheless. By making everything about race, you are likely to actually delay addressing the root cause and addressing the real issues.


    Yes, there is still racism around, but concentrating on the handful of wrongful cop shootings while ignoring the other 99% of the shootings is not going to solve the main problem or promote good relationship between the races, just the opposite. The vast majority of African Americans are killed by other African Americans, and same is true for whites - most whites are killed by other whites.

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