Thread: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

  1. #5081

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    You sound pretty angry. Do investigations into systemic racism upset you that much?
    I see we've run out of rebuttals. I'll cash it in.

  2. #5082
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg just died.

    The Supreme Court announced her death, saying the cause was complications from metastatic cancer of the pancreas. The court, in a statement, said Ginsburg died at her home in Washington surrounded by family. She was 87.

    "Our nation has lost a justice of historic stature," Chief Justice John Roberts said. "We at the Supreme Court have lost a cherished colleague. Today we mourn but with confidence that future generations will remember Ruth Bader Ginsburg as we knew her, a tired and resolute champion of justice."
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  3. #5083

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    nhannahjones (1619 Project):
    "One thing in which the right has been tremendously successful is getting media to frame stories in their language and through their lens. The #1619Project does not argue that 1619 is our true founding. We know this nation marks its founding at 1776."
    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/sta...41913556283401

    Some of the replies are interesting (such as pulling up her twit comments stating that she is arguing that "1619 is our true founding").

  4. #5084
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    nhannahjones (1619 Project):
    "One thing in which the right has been tremendously successful is getting media to frame stories in their language and through their lens. The #1619Project does not argue that 1619 is our true founding. We know this nation marks its founding at 1776."
    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones/sta...41913556283401

    Some of the replies are interesting (such as pulling up her twit comments stating that she is arguing that "1619 is our true founding").
    No one should be surprised that Hannah-Jones contradicts herself on even the most fundamental of points. It is the predictable conclusion of her intellectual dishonesty.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Cope; September 19, 2020 at 02:17 AM.

  5. #5085

  6. #5086

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    And it appears that NYT Magazine has stealth edited its 1619 Project online version:
    "When the 1619 Project went to print in August 2019 as a special edition of the New York Times Magazine, the newspaper put up an interactive version on its website. The original opening text stated:

    The 1619 project is a major initiative from The New York Times observing the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding, and placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of our national narrative. [emphasis added]"
    ...
    "Without announcement or correction, the newspaper quietly edited out the offending passage such that it now reads:

    The 1619 Project is an ongoing initiative from The New York Times Magazine that began in August 2019, the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of our national narrative."

    https://quillette.com/2020/09/19/dow...s-memory-hole/



    Also nhannahjones appears to have deleted all of her twits from from between Nov. 29 2018 and Sept. 17 2020.

    https://twitter.com/nhannahjones?ref...Ctwgr%5Eauthor
    Last edited by Infidel144; September 21, 2020 at 07:19 PM.

  7. #5087
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    An implicit acceptance that they were peddling quackery?
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.


  8. #5088
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    An implicit acceptance that they were peddling quackery?
    No. It’s merely about adjusting the messaging to dodge substantive criticism. The goal remains the same. The latter’s imperviousness to fact belies its insidious dishonesty.

  9. #5089

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    And, in her twittings nhannahjones is arguing that the online version is just promotional material so it does not matter what it said, and notification about changes is not important.
    If that were the case, though, why change it...

  10. #5090
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Well I guess there is no truth huh.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.


  11. #5091
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    Donald Trump is inciting violence
    “His audience is tens of millions of people. Only a tiny percentage need to act to severely disrupt this country’s politics.”

    Back in July, I was emailing with Erica Chenoweth — a professor at Harvard and an expert on protest and political violence around the world — about her take on Trump’s response to the protests for racial justice. One thing she warned about was the emergence of “pro-state/far-right militias who engage in vigilante violence and terrorism, sometimes with coordination or collusion with the state.”

    This has happened in other times and places — think the Ku Klux Klan’s activities during Reconstruction, or neofascist militias in Italy in the mid-late 20th century. According to Chenoweth, such alliances between political parties and far-right militants sometimes work through escalation. Street fighting tends to increase “the desire for a law-and-order candidate” among certain segments population — and right-wing political factions reap the benefit.

    In the wake of the shooting deaths of two people in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and murder charges against a Trump-supporting, self-described militia member, Chenoweth’s warning is chilling — all the more so because of the president’s reaction.

    Trump has repeatedly refused to condemn the 17-year-old militia member’s behavior, giving a partial and one-sided rendering of the violence that cast it as justifiable self-defense in a Monday night press conference. “He fell, and then they very violently attacked him,” the president said. “He probably would have been killed.”

    https://www.vox.com/2020/9/1/2140903...nce-incitement
    As KTSM 9 News previously reported, Cantrell is accused of destroying an almost 90-year-old statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, which was located in the center behind the main altar of St. Patrick’s Cathedral. The statue is estimated to be worth $25,000.

    According to an affidavit, Cantrell said that the statue was the wrong color. He told an officer who responded to the incident that Jesus was Jewish, so the statue should have a darker skin color, the affidavit stated. He denied destroying the statue, saying it fell on its own.

    He was rebooked on additional charges a few days after being arrested for the vandalism incident on unrelated charges to the church incident.

    Cantrell was charged with two counts of theft after an investigation found that he was responsible for the theft of a President Trump campaign sign and a Thin Blue Line flag from the yard of a central El Paso residence, each on separate occasions.

    The thefts occurred on Aug. 26 and Aug. 28, respectively.

    https://www.ktsm.com/crime/church-va...o-reduce-bond/
    ‘I’ve never had to think about my own safety in this way before’: Shaken by summer looting in affluent neighborhoods, some Chicagoans are moving away.

    The day after looting broke out two weeks ago, a Tribune columnist strolled through Gold Coast and Streeterville. Residents of the swanky Near North Side told him they’d be moving “as soon as we can get out.” Others expressed fear of returning downtown in the future.

    “There have been riots before, and looting,” Spun said. “It just seems to me now that the city isn’t doing anything about it. I don’t see this getting any better, and so I’d like to leave.”

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/real-...bwq-story.html
    King, who has been an outspoken supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement, tweeted his remarks on Monday. He noted that historians believe Jesus likely had the appearance of people who typically lived in the Middle East during his time, rather than the white man who is often depicted in Christian iconography.
    "Yes, I think the statues of the white European they claim is Jesus should also come down," King tweeted. "They are a form of white supremacy. Always have been."

    https://www.newsweek.com/white-jesus...r-says-1512674
    Ariel Atkins spoke outside a police station in the South Loop on 18th and South State Street on Monday, where protesters had gathered to call for the release of those who were arrested.

    "I don't care if somebody decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike because that makes sure that that person eats. That makes sure that that person has clothes," Atkins said, according to NBC Chicago.

    "That's reparations. That is reparations. Anything they want to take, take it because these businesses have insurance. They're going to get their money back. My people aren't getting anything."

    https://www.newsweek.com/black-lives...ations-1524502
    Quote Originally Posted by Letha Winston, Speaker at BLM Portland
    You [cops] think that you’re a good person because you have a gun. My comrades already know, I tell them every Thursday, right there in their face: I know you got a gun, but so do I. Go ahead and shoot me. I’ll shoot back. Am I lying, my comrades? ..... You [cops] need to be charged with murder. They need to hang you high. They need to send you to the electric chair, and let you fry like a piece of burnt bacon. [Cheers and applause]

    https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/...4424320077826?

    Despite apparently full confidence in a Biden victory in November, the MSM clearly isn’t backing down from this “Trump is a Nazi inciting fellow Nazis to do Nazi stuff” narrative based on curated public statements, with the GOP as a whole playing the role of sinister minions and corrupt enablers, and they’ve been on it since well before the virus or civil unrest were a thing.

    Meanwhile we have months of actual violence and looting across the country, mysterious criminal elements ambushing and firing on random cops in LA while “protestors” lay siege to the hospital baying for their blood, and the most expensive and destructive riots in modern US history, amid commentary from BLM activists explicitly calling for violence against police, referring to looting as “reparations” and depictions of Jesus as “white supremacy.” At a time when disinformation and espionage are a key security concern across the world, when will MSM, be it CNN or Fox, take a look in the mirror?

  12. #5092

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Despite apparently full confidence in a Biden victory in November, the MSM clearly isn’t backing down from this “Trump is a Nazi inciting fellow Nazis to do Nazi stuff” narrative based on curated public statements, with the GOP as a whole playing the role of sinister minions and corrupt enablers, and they’ve been on it since well before the virus or civil unrest were a thing.
    I have a variety of people I've known for decades in my FB feed who alternate between defending the rioting and looting or claiming it is all white supremacists or trump supporters or 'fifth columnists' doing it.

  13. #5093
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    I have a variety of people I've known for decades in my FB feed who alternate between defending the rioting and looting or claiming it is all white supremacists or trump supporters or 'fifth columnists' doing it.
    The standard double think that says “the protests are peaceful and if they aren’t it’s Trump’s/society’s fault” wouldn’t be any more problematic than politics as usual on its own; most people can see through that well enough (I hope). As we’ve seen, however, the narrative is increasingly enforced by a troubling integration of mass media, corporate interests, and political activists that creates a sort of immune system which instinctively ostracizes and punishes anyone who is perceived as a threat/useful antagonist to the Party narrative. Truth is secondary to correct ideological goals, an at times Trumpian trend the MSM has declared a unique threat to civilization, even while actively propagating their own variety. We’re seeing this elsewhere, and if we’re supposed to be on guard against foreign interference seeking to undermine our Republic, the domestic category ought to be no less concerning.

  14. #5094
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    An interesting article describing how certain governments, such as the British one, spent millions to improve the public image of the Syrian opposition. The author's commentary is not impartial, but the leaked documents and data that he cites still gives an accurate picture of the programme's structure and goals. Private firms and contractors were generously paid by the authorities to produce propaganda material, to establish a network of "charismatic" activists and influencers and to advice the rebels about how they should soften up their message, in order to make it more appealing to Syrian civilians and Western audiences.



    I understand the geopolitical concerns of the Foreign Affairs Ministry, but I doubt tax-payers would be very happy about the fact that public money was funnelled to profit-seeking companies, in order to white-wash groups that were offten affiliated with al-Qaeda's Syrian branch. Apparently, even respectable outlets, like BBC Arabic and al-Jazeera, were manipulated by these subterfuge tactics. Let's hope that journalists will be more skeptical and critical about the information they receive, especially if it originates from rather shady sources.

  15. #5095

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    Apparently, even respectable outlets, like BBC Arabic and al-Jazeera, were manipulated by these subterfuge tactics. Let's hope that journalists will be more skeptical and critical about the information they receive, especially if it originates from rather shady sources.
    Couldn't help but chuckle at the highlighted part. BBC and AJ are state-owned propaganda arms of their governments - so them whitewashing violent theocratic movements simply reflects the policies of their own governments, proving that in case of UK they simply don't care if potential regime they'd prop up is objectively much worse then original regimes and its alleged transgressions.

  16. #5096
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    It is public knowledge that London, Washington, Paris and Berlin advocated for regime change in Syria and that they supported ambiguous rebel factions (many of which were suspected Islamist groups) in pursuit of that objective.

  17. #5097
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    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    I am the troll whisperer

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Internet Troll and Disinformation Quiz

    The quiz presents users with 8 profiles, each of which includes both profile information and a brief selection of posts from a single social media account. The user is asked to decide if the content comes from an authentic account or a professional troll. Each question is followed by some tips that might help in the future, as well as the opportunity to explore more details.

    While fake accounts are created for a variety of reasons, the troll accounts and posts in this quiz have all been linked to Vladimir Putin’s troll factory, the Internet Research Agency, based in Saint Petersburg, Russia. Many foreign and domestic actors, however, have learned from the Russians and have begun to use some of their tactics. These include operations in Iran, China, and around the globe.
    Make sure to read the Full Analysis on each profile, too.
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  18. #5098
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYT 4 months ago
    Deutsche Bank also helped Trump find buyers for condos in his properties, according to people familiar with the arrangements. When he partnered in 2006 with a Los Angeles developer to build a Trump-*branded resort in Hawaii, *Deutsche Bank organized get-*togethers in London and elsewhere to connect Trump and his partners with wealthy clients — including some from Russia — who used anonymous shell companies to buy units in the Waikiki hotel complex.

    Some senior executives discussed the potential pitfalls of the Trump relationship. It wasn’t only the not-*insignificant risk that Trump would default on loans. The bankers also talked about Trump’s well-*documented ties to the organized-*crime world — he had done business with people in or affiliated with the mob in Atlantic City and New York — and the possibility that his real estate projects were laundromats for illicit funds from countries like Russia, where oligarchs were trying to get money out of the country. “Everyone in the real estate business was involved in ‘flight capital,’ ” a top executive told me. But the loans looked profitable, the relationship felt valuable and the concerns went unheeded.

    One reason all these files could be so illuminating is that the bank’s relationship with Trump extended well beyond making simple loans. *Deutsche Bank managed tens of millions of dollars of Trump’s personal assets. The bank also furnished him with other services that have not previously been reported: providing sophisticated financial instruments that shielded him from risks and outside scrutiny, and making introductions to wealthy Russians who were interested in investing in Western real estate. If Trump cheated on his taxes, *Deutsche Bank would probably know. If his net worth is measured in millions, not billions, *Deutsche Bank would probably know. If he secretly got money from the Kremlin, *Deutsche Bank would probably know.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/m...ank-trump.html
    Quote Originally Posted by NYT now
    Among the key findings of The Times’s investigation:
    * Mr. Trump paid no federal income taxes in 11 of 18 years that The Times examined. In 2017, after he became president, his tax bill was only $750.
    * He has reduced his tax bill with questionable measures, including a $72.9 million tax refund that is the subject of an audit by the Internal Revenue Service.
    * Many of his signature businesses, including his golf courses, report losing large amounts of money — losses that have helped him to lower his taxes.
    * The financial pressure on him is increasing as hundreds of millions of dollars in loans he personally guaranteed are soon coming due.
    * Even while declaring losses, he has managed to enjoy a lavish lifestyle by taking tax deductions on what most people would consider personal expenses, including residences, aircraft and $70,000 in hairstyling for television.
    * Ivanka Trump, while working as an employee of the Trump Organization, appears to have received “consulting fees” that also helped reduce the family’s tax bill.
    * As president, he has received more money from foreign sources and U.S. interest groups than previously known. The records do not reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/27/u...takeaways.html
    So......I’m lost here. NY (State, City, Times, you name it) and the DNC have been building up Trump’s taxes to be the smoking gun for any number of crimes and corruption. I mean hell, I assumed they at least had ample reason to infer a fraction of the stuff they did based on some matter of fact related to AML/ABC laws. If this is supposed to be the big reveal, shouldn’t NYT be too embarrassed to run it at all? Why before the election?

    MSM is dutifully calling it a bombshell which just makes it even more pathetic IMO, like, they really think they can gaslight everyone about their own report? I figured Trump was dodging taxes as he more or less bragged about it half the time. I assumed the main reason he didn’t want to disclose them is because he’s probably a Ponzi type hustler who’s one rubber check away from broke (every contractor in NYC knows that), and it would give Democrats a car to chase. Sure enough.

  19. #5099

    Default Re: Discussion and Debate Community Thread

    I wonder how they got his tax forms.

  20. #5100

    Default The Slide of Civilization into Anarchy.

    It's amazing how fragile our Civilization is; enter Mr. P and his oligarchs and finally the "useful idiot" ("idiot') or as some would refer to him as the devil's spawn. Fortunately for civilization, the useful idiot remains an idiot and will not succeed (my opinion). I expect the Russian bots and trolls will latch onto this with ever claw at its disposal. And for those Russian bots and trolls: Karma is what it is.

    -Merged with the chat thread. ~Abdülmecid I
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; October 03, 2020 at 04:11 AM. Reason: Clarification added.

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