Discussion and Debate Community Thread

**Heathen Hammer** · March 26, 2020, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti

Certainly a mad lone wolf, had nothing to do with massive indoctrination by far right social media.

I guess we should blame most of recent conflicts and attacks on indoctrination by mainstream media and academia then.

**PointOfViewGun** · March 26, 2020, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by alhoon

Or so you think and I won't discuss it further.

Your posts indicate you didn't. I'm glad you don't wanna dance around that any more.

**mishkin** · March 28, 2020, 04:32 AM

The German word for when you are slightly depressed and your mother, slightly depressed, approaches you but you have to reject her?

**Morticia Iunia Bruti** · March 28, 2020, 07:31 AM

Distanzieren.

As adjective: "unterkühlt, reserviert".

But not necessary because of being slight depressed.

**Prodromos** · March 28, 2020, 11:39 AM

FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD - Toward a Social Ethos of the Orthodox Church

The Ecumenical Patriarchate of the Orthodox Church recently published an unprecedented document detailing the social teaching of the church. I was surprised by its strong and unequivocal language, but I guess it's well warranted in these times. The document has sections on a variety of issues, but I'm quoting a few sections related to current political events.

On nostalgia for the pre-modern past:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

§10 In many countries in the world today, civil order, freedom, human rights, and democracy are realities in which citizens may trust; and, to a very real degree, these societies accord persons the fundamental dignity of the liberty to seek and pursue the good ends they desire for themselves, their families, and their communities. This is a very rare blessing indeed, viewed in relation to the entire course of human history, and it would be irrational and uncharitable of Christians not to feel a genuine gratitude for the special democratic genius of the modern age. Orthodox Christians who enjoy the great advantages of living in such countries should not take such values for granted, but should instead actively support them, and work for the preservation and extension of democratic institutions and customs within the legal, cultural, and economic frameworks of their respective societies. It is something of a dangerous temptation among Orthodox Christians to surrender to a debilitating and in many respects fantastical nostalgia for some long-vanished golden era, and to imagine that it constituted something like the sole ideal Orthodox polity. This can become an especially pernicious kind of false piety, one that mistakes the transient political forms of the Orthodox past, such as the Byzantine Empire, for the essence of the Church of the Apostles. The special advantages of the Church under Christian rule may have allowed for the gestation and formation of a distinct Orthodox ethos within the political spaces inhabited by Orthodox Christians, but they also had the unfortunate additional effect of binding the Church to certain crippling limitations. Far too often, the Orthodox Church has allowed for the conflation of national, ethnic, and religious identity, to the point that the external forms and language of the faith—quite evacuated of their true content—have come to be used as instruments for advancing national and cultural interests under the guise of Christian adherence. And this has often inhibited the Church in its vocation to proclaim the Gospel to all peoples.

On nationalism and racism:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

§11 Thus it was that the Council of Constantinople in 1872 condemned “phyletism,” which is to say the subordination of the Orthodox faith to ethnic identities and national interests. A love for one’s own culture is an honorable sentiment, so long as it is a generous sentiment as well, allied to a willingness to recognize the beauty and nobility of other cultures, and to welcome exchanges between and fruitful intermixtures of all cultures. And patriotism can be a benign and wholesome feeling, so long as it is not mistaken for a virtue in itself, or for a moral good even when one’s country has become profoundly unjust or destructive. But it is absolutely forbidden for Christians to make an idol of cultural, ethnic, or national identity. There can be no such thing as a “Christian nationalism,” or even any form of nationalism tolerable to Christian conscience. This must, unfortunately, be emphasized at the present moment, on account of the unexpected recrudescence in much of the developed world of the most insidious ideologies of identity, including belligerent forms of nationalism and blasphemous philosophies of race. The crimes born of racial injustice—from the early modern rebirth of chattel slavery along racial lines to the later regimes of South African apartheid or legal segregation in the United States, all of which were enforced by violence both organized and random—are very much a part of the whole of modern Western history, of course; but racialist ideology as such is a toxic relic of the superstitions of the pseudo-science of the late eighteenth to early twentieth centuries. And, while genuine scientific advances (in such areas as molecular biology, genomics especially) have exposed the very concept of distinct races—or of separate genetic clades within the human species—as a vicious fantasy, with no basis in biological reality, the poisonous notion of race remains a part of the conceptual world of late modernity. There could be no greater contradiction of the Gospel. There is only one human race, to which all persons belong, and all are called as one to become a single people in God the creator. There is no humanity apart from the one universal humanity that the Son of God assumed in becoming human, and it embraces all persons without distinction or discrimination. And yet, sadly, the rise of new forms of political and nationalist extremism has even resulted in the infiltration of various Orthodox communities by individuals committed to race-theory. The Orthodox Church condemns their views without qualification, and calls them to a complete repentance and penitential reconciliation with the body of Christ. And it must be incumbent on every Orthodox community, when it discovers such persons in its midst and cannot move them to renounce the evils they promote, to expose, denounce, and expel them. Any ecclesial community that fails in this has betrayed Christ.

On refugees and immigrants:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

§66 No moral injunction constitutes a more constant theme in scripture, from the earliest days of the Law and the Prophets to the age of the Apostles, than hospitality and protection for strangers in need. “You shall not wrong or oppress the stranger, for you were yourselves strangers in the land of Egypt” (Exodus 22:21; cf. 23:9). “You shall treat the stranger who lives among you as one native-born, and love him as you do yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt” (Leviticus 19:34). “For the Lord your God . . . shows no partiality . . . He pronounces justice for the fatherless and the widow, and he loves the stranger, giving him bread and clothing; so you must love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt” (Deuteronomy 10:17–19). “Cursed is he who withholds justice from the alien” (Deuteronomy 27:19). “The Lord watches over the alien” (Psalm 146[145]:9). “But no stranger has had to live in the street, for I have opened my doors to the traveler” (Job 31:32). “Is not this the fasting I have required? . . . to bring into shelter the poor wanderer . . .?” (Isaiah 58:6–7) “I will be swift to prosecute . . . those who turn the alien away, but who do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 3:5). “Do not forget to be hospitable to aliens, for thereby some have unknowingly welcomed angels” (Hebrews 13:2). Christ, in fact, tells us that our very salvation depends upon the hospitality we extend to strangers: “Then they too will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you . . . a stranger . . . and not minister to you?’ And he will reply, ‘I tell you truly, insofar as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me’” (Matthew 25:44–45). These words must seem especially tormenting—and especially challenging—to Christian conscience today. The twenty-first century dawned as a century of migrants and refugees fleeing violent crime, poverty, climate change, war, drought, economic collapse, and asking for safety, sustenance, and hope. The developed world everywhere knows the presence of refugees and asylum-seekers, many legally admitted but also many others without documentation. They confront the consciences of wealthier nations daily with their sheer vulnerability, indigence, and suffering. This is a global crisis, but also a personal appeal to our faith, to our deepest moral natures, to our most inabrogable responsibilities.

§67 The Orthodox Church regards the plight of these displaced peoples as nothing less than a divine call to love, justice, service, mercy, and inexhaustible generosity... We call on the civil authorities, the Orthodox faithful and the other citizens of the countries in which they have sought refuge and continue to seek refuge to accord them every possible assistance, even from out of their own insufficiency.”[56] The Church therefore praises those nations that have received these migrants and refugees, and that have granted asylum to those who seek it. Moreover, it reminds Christians everywhere that such welcome is a biblical command that transcends the interests of secular governments. The modern nation-state is not a sacred institution, even if it can at times serve the causes of justice, equity, and peace. Nor are borders anything more than accidents of history and conventions of law. They too may have at times a useful purpose to serve, but in themselves they are not moral or spiritual goods whose claim upon us can justify failing in our sacred responsibilities to those whom God has commended to our special care. In our own time, we have seen some European governments and a great many ideologues affecting to defend “Christian Europe” by seeking completely to seal borders, by promoting nationalist and even racialist ideas, and by rejecting in countless other ways the words of Christ himself. We have seen nativist panic encouraged in Europe, in Australia, in the Americas. In the United States, the most powerful and wealthiest nation in history—one, in fact, born out of mighty floods of immigrants from around the world—we have seen political leaders not only encouraging fear and hatred of asylum-seekers and impoverished immigrants, but even employing terror against them: abducting children from their parents, shattering families, tormenting parents and children alike, interning all of them indefinitely, denying due process to asylum-seekers, slandering and lying about those seeking refuge, deploying the military at southern borders to terrify and threaten unarmed migrants, employing racist and nativist rhetoric against asylum-seekers for the sake of political advantage, and so forth. All such actions are assaults upon the image of God in those who seek our mercy. They are offenses against the Holy Spirit. In the name of Christ, the Orthodox Church denounces these practices, and implores those who are guilty of them to repent and to seek instead to become servants of justice and charity.

**irontaino** · April 01, 2020, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer

I guess we should blame most of recent conflicts and attacks on indoctrination by mainstream media and academia then.

Recent attacks such as?

**Coughdrop addict** · April 02, 2020, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by irontaino

Recent attacks such as?

The awful "A right-winger wasn't given his way" attack and the terrible "A right-winger was forced to tolerate the existence of people with different opinions" conflict immediately spring to mind. And how could you forget the horrific toll of the Bowling Green Massacre?

**Lord Thesaurian** · April 02, 2020, 07:23 AM

Hi guys,

Don’t forget to vote/nominate posts for the POTF

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/foru...ht-Competition

**mishkin** · April 02, 2020, 02:36 PM

Appreciated

**Morticia Iunia Bruti** · April 03, 2020, 01:21 PM

Venezulean patrol boat sunk after ramming german arctic cruiseline ship

In the early morning hours of the 30th of March 2020 (local time), the cruise vessel RCGS RESOLUTE has been subject to an act of aggression by the Venezuelan Navy in international waters, around 13.3 nautical miles from Isla de Tortuga with 32 crew member and no passengers on board.

When the event occurred, the cruise vessel RCGS RESOLUTE has already been drifting for one day off the coast of the island to conduct some routine engine maintenance on its idle voyage to its destination, Willemstad/ Curaçao. As maintenance was being performed on the starboard main engine, the port main engine was kept on standby to maintain a safe distance from the island at any time.
Shortly after mid-night, the cruise vessel was approached by an armed Venezuelan navy vessel, which via radio questioning the intentions of the RCGS RESOLUTE’s presence and gave the order to follow to Puerto Moreno on Isla De Margarita. As the RCGS RESOLUTE was sailing in international waters at that time, the Master wanted to reconfirm this particular request resulting into a serious deviation from the scheduled vessel’s route with the company DPA.

While the Master was in contact with the head office, gun shots were fired and, shortly thereafter, the navy vessel approached the starboard side at speed with an angle of 135° and purposely collided with the RCGS RESOLUTE. The navy vessel continued to ram the starboard bow in an apparent attempt to turn the ship’s head towards Venezuelan territorial waters.

While the RCGS RESOLUTE sustained minor damages, not affecting vessel’s seaworthiness, it occurs that the navy vessel suffered severe damages while making contact with the ice-strengthened bulbous bow of the ice-class expedition cruise vessel RCGS RESOLUTE and started to take water.
Ready to support anytime, the RCGS RESOLUTE remained for over one hour in vicinity of the scene and reached out to the Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre (MRCC) Curaçao. This is an international body which oversees any maritime emergencies. All attempts to contact those on board the navy ship have been left unanswered.
Only after receiving the order to resume passage full ahead by the MRCC and that further assistance is not required, the RCGS RESOLUTE, currently safely moored in the port of Willemstad, continued sailing towards her destination at Curaçao. A full investigation into the circumstances surrounding the incident will now be carried out.

https://www.columbia-cs.com/statemen...lute-incident/

Pirates of the Caribbean with Captain Eduardo Gorrión^^