[Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

[Jervaj]

I never did although felt tempted to do it in the past but given that this is now their limtiating factor more reason not to do it. I really like the diea of having a core region where you are the strongest "The League" and then your spehere of influence with allies and cities under the leagues influence.

[Wolfgang von Zweibrücken]

It's the main Carthaginian post-reform government type.

I see, interesting

Kleruchy, Council and Barcid Capital.

Gotcha, thanks

I have no idea, that should not be possible. Where is your game installed?

I have my steam folder outside of program (x86), as suggested in the installation instructions, with EBII in the medieval II>mods folder. Since it doesn't break the game I'll just leave it instead of reinstalling, I was mostly just curious if it was intentional or not; I thought it was intentional because Gadir starts the game with both Oligarchy and Democracy saying "this has been constructed" in the building-viewer, at least in my install

Edit: In the settlement details, it only shows one government-building (Allied Democracy) in Gadir, but in the building-viewer it says both have been constructed (as if one were the precursor to the other)

I don't know if the recruitment pools stack (i.e. having both Democracy and Oligarchy built gives you both pools) because I haven't played a QH campaign long enough to hit max units in my allied cities, so I will keep an eye out for that.

[QuintusSertorius]

I have my steam folder outside of program (x86), as suggested in the installation instructions, with EBII in the medieval II>mods folder. Since it doesn't break the game I'll just leave it instead of reinstalling, I was mostly just curious if it was intentional or not; I thought it was intentional because Gadir starts the game with both Oligarchy and Democracy saying "this has been constructed" in the building-viewer, at least in my install

Edit: In the settlement details, it only shows one government-building (Allied Democracy) in Gadir, but in the building-viewer it says both have been constructed (as if one were the precursor to the other)

I don't know if the recruitment pools stack (i.e. having both Democracy and Oligarchy built gives you both pools) because I haven't played a QH campaign long enough to hit max units in my allied cities, so I will keep an eye out for that.

OK, no that's just the Building Viewer showing all the previous levels of a building - they're not actually there. I thought you meant there was an icon on your available construction options for another Allied Government type. It's a hardcoded part of the display - it shows all previous levels in a building tree, whether or not it's actually possible to build them there.

[Julio85]

Hello!

Is there any Gov's and Colony on the Indian faction?

[Jervaj]

Have some more questions.

Why roman colonies decrease public order when the WM culture is high? Shouldnt it be the opposite like the other colonies that give unrest when your culture there is low?

Then another question I have...this is more a mechanical thing. Has been discussed if the local colony conversion should be reduced or removed? I think that feature makes them not appealling at all. You get improved recruitment without spending colony points but they have all the other disadvantages of colonies increasing unrest and farming loss. And the fast conversion away from your culture means that unrest is increasing overtime and that you will also lose factional recruitment and whenever you want to convert them back again it will take you longer to be able to get the best upgrades and troops that come from your factional roster.

Really they seem more a hamper than a benefit in mid/long term. I have never been a situation where I want to build them and Im usually destroying the ones I start with.

[QuintusSertorius]

Hello!

Is there any Gov's and Colony on the Indian faction?

Mantaprey appears to have forgotten Taksashila.

They can build Native Colonies after independence.

Have some more questions.

Why roman colonies decrease public order when the WM culture is high? Shouldnt it be the opposite like the other colonies that give unrest when your culture there is low?

I don't know; I would guess it's something to do with increasing Romanisation leading to the people thinking they have a right to participation and representation in Rome.

Then another question I have...this is more a mechanical thing. Has been discussed if the local colony conversion should be reduced or removed? I think that feature makes them not appealling at all. You get improved recruitment without spending colony points but they have all the other disadvantages of colonies increasing unrest and farming loss. And the fast conversion away from your culture means that unrest is increasing overtime and that you will also lose factional recruitment and whenever you want to convert them back again it will take you longer to be able to get the best upgrades and troops that come from your factional roster.

Really they seem more a hamper than a benefit in mid/long term. I have never been a situation where I want to build them and Im usually destroying the ones I start with.

Outside of the former Persian Empire, there's no conversion. They just block Hellenistic colonisation. Within the former Persian Empire, they are sometimes the better option if Hellenistic colonisation gives you little of value. There are marginal places where a helcol gives very little, and a polis not much more, making it a waste of resources to invest there.

Furthermore, they are of greater benefit to the non-Hellenistic factions who can build them - Hayastan, Nabatu, settled Saka/Pahlava - who want Eastern Imperial culture.

[Jervaj]

I don't know; I would guess it's something to do with increasing Romanisation leading to the people thinking they have a right to participation and representation in Rome.

I thought that was represneted already by the second tier goverment having the unrest penalty when WM was high, that makes sense. But I dont get it from the colonies themselves.

Outside of the former Persian Empire, there's no conversion. They just block Hellenistic colonisation. Within the former Persian Empire, they are sometimes the better option if Hellenistic colonisation gives you little of value. There are marginal places where a helcol gives very little, and a polis not much more, making it a waste of resources to invest there.

Furthermore, they are of greater benefit to the non-Hellenistic factions who can build them - Hayastan, Nabatu, settled Saka/Pahlava - who want Eastern Imperial culture.

Thats true for the other factions (although Nabatu only wants Eastern Imperial temproarilly). However given that those territories already have cultural struggle having it there as a hellenistic faction seems a rough call as even if the troops are strictly better it can be difficult to keep the city in check.

Theres a way to know without having to check the files everytime where the colonies give conversion? Maybe checking the building browser in winter or something?

[QuintusSertorius]

I thought that was represneted already by the second tier goverment having the unrest penalty when WM was high, that makes sense. But I dont get it from the colonies themselves.

I don't know, to be honest, I'd have to go ask someone.

Thats true for the other factions (although Nabatu only wants Eastern Imperial temproarilly). However given that those territories already have cultural struggle having it there as a hellenistic faction seems a rough call as even if the troops are strictly better it can be difficult to keep the city in check.

Theres a way to know without having to check the files everytime where the colonies give conversion? Maybe checking the building browser in winter or something?

Nabatu wants EI as well; they go Arid Nomadism>Eastern Tribal>Eastern Imperial. The latters is "Hellenised eastern administration" which is exactly what they should have. But it's supposed to be a potentially bad trade for Hellenistic factions; look at the cautionary tale of Raphia, where those Egyptians the Ptolemies trained as a phalanx revolted and triggered 50 years of unrest.

Yes, building browser in the winter is one way to go, or else this line from the EDB:

religion_level bonus 1 requires factions { f_makedonia, f_kh, f_epeiros, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_baktria, f_hayasdan, f_pontos, f_parthia, f_pergamon, f_gandhara, f_nabatu, f_saka, f_sauromatae, f_bosporan, f_carthage, f_numidia, f_saka, f_sauromatae, } and not region_religion rel_c 60 and event_counter ecReligionUpdate 1 and hidden_resource anatolian or hidden_resource baktria or hidden_resource caucasus or hidden_resource eastern or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource ioudaioi

[Mantaprey]

Taksashila are in. I have had that feeling for a long time now that i have forgotten something.

[Jervaj]

Ah, you changed the Nabatu, they dont go hellenic anymore. Good good. Like to have some more EI jeje.

Yeah, I know the Raphia story. Guessed all the time that eas the type of thing that local colonies represented. But as story tell us is terrible anf I doubt will get much use by the player and can give problems to the AI hehe

[QuintusSertorius]

Taksashila are in. I have had that feeling for a long time now that i have forgotten something.

Thanks for updating, this is an absolutely invaluable resource for new and existing players.

Ah, you changed the Nabatu, they dont go hellenic anymore. Good good. Like to have some more EI jeje.

Yeah, I know the Raphia story. Guessed all the time that eas the type of thing that local colonies represented. But as story tell us is terrible anf I doubt will get much use by the player and can give problems to the AI hehe

It's still potentially useful, just that it comes with a sting in the tail in certain areas. Sure you get native phalanxes and some awesome local cavalry, but it may also cause more unrest than you want to deal with. That's exactly the sort of problem the Seleukids and Ptolemaioi faced in trying to manage their empires.

[Tactics Mayers]

What are the kinds of buildings that affect the rate of conversion for the Nabateans? The towns of Dedan and Bostra are stalled due to the Arid Nomadism not dropping to 50% and wondering how to make the ability to build large farms appear.

[QuintusSertorius]

What are the kinds of buildings that affect the rate of conversion for the Nabateans? The towns of Dedan and Bostra are stalled due to the Arid Nomadism not dropping to 50% and wondering how to make the ability to build large farms appear.

Nomadic farms should increase Eastern Tribal (and thus reduce Arid Nomadism) for Nabatu.

[Tactics Mayers]

Nomadic farms should increase Eastern Tribal (and thus reduce Arid Nomadism) for Nabatu.

I've managed to build three large farms at the required cities and still nothing happens. Do I need to have the Arid Nomadism Culture reduced to 50% in all these cities?

[QuintusSertorius]

I've managed to build three large farms at the required cities and still nothing happens. Do I need to have the Arid Nomadism Culture reduced to 50% in all these cities?

Nothing happens in what respect? What are you trying to do? If you're after the settled reform for the Nabatu, your Faction Leader needs to have the Settled Trait, and not have Nomad as well.

Rekem needs to have had the nomadic Large-Scale Farming, Bostra and Dedan need the settled version of Large-Scale Farming (which requires a City). There's no religion-linked element to the reforms at all.

[Tactics Mayers]

Nothing happens in what respect? What are you trying to do? If you're after the settled reform for the Nabatu, your Faction Leader needs to have the Settled Trait, and not have Nomad as well.

Rekem needs to have had the nomadic Large-Scale Farming, Bostra and Dedan need the settled version of Large-Scale Farming (which requires a City). There's no religion-linked element to the reforms at all.

Please forgive me for not reading the fine print. Didn't read that I need my Faction leader to have a certain trait. I'll just install an heir with the settled trait when the Faction leader dies.

[QuintusSertorius]

Please forgive me for not reading the fine print. Didn't read that I need my Faction leader to have a certain trait. I'll just install an heir with the settled trait when the Faction leader dies.

No need to apologise, I'm not sure if it's on the diagram in the OP. It's a new requirement, having sorted out those two particular Traits (and as long as they haven't reached the last one on either scale, you can "train" it in the direction you want). For the Imperial reform, you need an FL with Philhellene.

[svramj]

What is the significance of a Tribal government for Taksashila ?
They're allowed only with India where there's 35+ pastoral nomadism. Why only in India?
It's later not upgradable and eventually pastoral nomadism decline which leads to public order penalty.

[Tactics Mayers]

I've gotten 50% Hellnistic Politics for Scythiapolis as the Bosporan Kingdom yet I don't see the Nomadic Satrapy gov in the build list. How much culture do I need. Also, only Panadris and Scythapolis can be coverted into a city?

[QuintusSertorius]

What is the significance of a Tribal government for Taksashila ?
They're allowed only with India where there's 35+ pastoral nomadism. Why only in India?
It's later not upgradable and eventually pastoral nomadism decline which leads to public order penalty.

It's basically an old, pre-reform, local style of government.

I've gotten 50% Hellnistic Politics for Scythiapolis as the Bosporan Kingdom yet I don't see the Nomadic Satrapy gov in the build list. How much culture do I need. Also, only Panadris and Scythapolis can be coverted into a city?

You need >45% and to have converted Skythiapolis to a city.

Yes, only Paniardis and Skythiapolis are convertible nearby, though Uspe isn't that far. Klepidava is already converted.