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Thread: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

  1. #201
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    As the Pritanoi. Is it possible to build a Petty Kingdom Gov outside of Britain or are you limited to only building Migration, Allied State, Protectorate and Allied Governments?
    Petty Kingdom is Britain-only. Allied State is the highest form of government you can build outside of Britain.

  2. #202

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    I've been playing as the Saka, chipping away at the northeast corner of the map, and have been a bit unsure about which governments to make, mainly because when I take a new settlement I cannot tell if the "New Land" government (the Saka government, rather than the allied state one) will be at all upgradable.* I checked in the EDB, and one of requirements for upgrading the unsettled Saka government is
    Code:
    building_present hinterland_pastoral_city
    I then checked the descr_strat and found that this building is present in every historically nomadic territory, but in no settled territory. Now, the building does not seem to be something one can build, and as the building is "hinterland", it is likewise indestructible. As I understand it, this then means that unless a territory has the building "Pastoral Settlement" already present when you take it, it cannot be upgraded with the Saka faction government until the Saka have settled. Is this correct?


    *I know that in theory most should be further upgradable once I settle the faction, but I'm not that far yet and want to make sure I'm understanding the mechanics correctly.
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  3. #203
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    In pastoral regions, the Our Land (ie precursor) only upgrades to either Leader's Camp or Royal Camp. They in turn can upgrade to an Urban Land (after the Settled reform) in those pastoral regions which have been converted to settled ones.

    So yes, you can't build any factional government in non-pastoral regions until after you've settled. That's by design.

  4. #204

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    In pastoral regions, the Our Land (ie precursor) only upgrades to either Leader's Camp or Royal Camp. They in turn can upgrade to an Urban Land (after the Settled reform) in those pastoral regions which have been converted to settled ones.

    So yes, you can't build any factional government in non-pastoral regions until after you've settled. That's by design.

    Thanks QS. I thought as much when looking through the game files, but just wanted to be sure.
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  5. #205

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    I've returned to EB2 once again after a long hiatus once I noticed that 2.3 has been released... well done EB2 team!

    I have to admit that despite the player's guide, I am still very confused about hellenistic faction government and colony systems. Specifically, I love to play Baktria when I start the game up again after being away from it for a while.

    One of the things I mostly struggle with is wondering what should be available in any given province. I'll try to make my questions specific. For example, in my current game I recently took Taxila (in the province of Gandhara). Upon conquest the only option available to me was Tributary State and the following Allied Government options. At first I thought, no big deal, that must be all that is available here. But then when looking at the Gandhara province description I noticed that it states there are Public Order penalties for Basilike Arche (Royal Administration) which suggested to me that, if these penalties exist, then Basilike Arche should be able to be built here. However, Doriktete Ge (Baktrian military conquest) was not available to me.

    So the question is, what determines whether or not the Doriktete Ge is available for Baktria in a given province? Is there some requirement that needs to be fulfilled before it is an available option, or was my inference from the province description just an error and, in fact, Tributary State is actually the only option for this province?
    Last edited by Daelric; June 25, 2018 at 11:02 AM.

  6. #206
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by Daelric View Post
    I've returned to EB2 once again after a long hiatus once I noticed that 2.3 has been released... well done EB2 team!

    I have to admit that despite the player's guide, I am still very confused about hellenistic faction government and colony systems. Specifically, I love to play Baktria when I start the game up again after being away from it for a while.

    One of the things I mostly struggle with is wondering what should be available in any given province. I'll try to make my questions specific. For example, in my current game I recently took Taxila (in the province of Gandhara). Upon conquest the only option available to me was Tributary State and the following Allied Government options. At first I thought, no big deal, that must be all that is available here. But then when looking at the Gandhara province description I noticed that it states there are Public Order penalties for Basilike Arche (Royal Administration) which suggested to me that, if these penalties exist, then Basilike Arche should be able to be built here. However, Doriktete Ge (Baktrian military conquest) was not available to me.

    So the question is, what determines whether or not the Doriktete Ge is available for Baktria in a given province? Is there some requirement that needs to be fulfilled before it is an available option, or was my inference from the province description just an error and, in fact, Tributary State is actually the only option for this province?
    Baktria can't build factional governments outside of their core heartland until they are independent from the Seleukids.

  7. #207

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Baktria can't build factional governments outside of their core heartland until they are independent from the Seleukids.
    A ha! Is information such as this captured anywhere specific? It's a shame it's not included in the guide.

  8. #208

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    I'm not sure if the version of the guide I have is the newest (March 6th 2018), but I show in the paragraph near the bottom of the chart: "Satrap of Arche Seleukia" in red, and in black beneath it "Baktria starts as a Satrap of Arche Seleukia and can only build factional governments inside the Satrapy of Baktria (starting regions) and Allied Client Governments elsewhere)" then under Baktrian Kingdom beneath it, it mentions that you may govern outside the Satrapy of Baktria once you've gained independence. It might need to be slightly more explicit there that it means unlocking factional governments / that you would need to smash your allied governments and remove the client ruler (to avoid Interloper traits) and build the now-available factional chain.

  9. #209

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by myarta View Post
    I'm not sure if the version of the guide I have is the newest (March 6th 2018), but I show in the paragraph near the bottom of the chart: "Satrap of Arche Seleukia" in red, and in black beneath it "Baktria starts as a Satrap of Arche Seleukia and can only build factional governments inside the Satrapy of Baktria (starting regions) and Allied Client Governments elsewhere)" then under Baktrian Kingdom beneath it, it mentions that you may govern outside the Satrapy of Baktria once you've gained independence. It might need to be slightly more explicit there that it means unlocking factional governments / that you would need to smash your allied governments and remove the client ruler (to avoid Interloper traits) and build the now-available factional chain.
    Okay, yes, I see what you mean... that makes sense now! Thanks for your help!

  10. #210

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    I think the "build allied governments now, replace them with factional governments later" strategy is one that will be common to a lot of factions. There are many factions that aren't independent at the outset, limiting build options, or that need a crucial reform, or that need to settle in order to access higher-tier or more widely available governments. However, as a rule of thumb, when I'm not sure about how things work the first thing I do is open up the EDB and see what the requirements are there. It's all pretty straightforward and explicit once you are halfway familiar with the files, and then you know for sure how it works because the EDB is what's defining the mechanics for these buildings. For example, for that first tier of Baktrian government the EDB says the following:

    Code:
    building govbaktria
    {
        religion rel_h
        levels baktriaprec baktria1 baktria2 baktria3 baktria4 baktria5 baktria6 baktria7
        {
            baktriaprec requires factions { f_baktria, } and not  building_present govallied and event_counter ecBaktriaKingdom 1 or  hidden_resource baktria
    ...
    ...
    The requirements there make it more clear that either the government must be in Baktrian home territory (i.e. hidden_resource baktria) or Baktria must have become independent (i.e. ecBaktriaKingdom 1).

    Anyway, as a general rule I think it's good to always have a look at the game files when something is unclear.
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  11. #211

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Yeah. As a roleplaying note, I tend to wait until the client ruler dies as that means I don't have to conveniently off him in battle. Except I tend to do that more for slow assimilation of territories. For Baktria, because the independence event is designed for a mere 60 turns and client rulers can easily live 200 (=50 years) or more, what I tend to do is avoid conquering non-Bactria land and focus entirely on the missions. I think one mission is for Alex-Eschate which might need to start out as allied initially (it's been too long since I played them) but in those cases I tend not to actually recruit a ruler. Baktria can be a long slow wait for your culture to come up unless you love unrest and working with tons of regional troops, so I try to avoid any other waiting tasks like "Will this client ruler ever die?" on top of all the "Ok we made 3% culture progress over the past 4 years, let's check again in another 4. Cmon 49%."

  12. #212
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by myarta View Post
    Yeah. As a roleplaying note, I tend to wait until the client ruler dies as that means I don't have to conveniently off him in battle"
    A related question: is it possible to move the Client Ruler to another city? (ie you recruit him in one, he rules for some time, you decide this city to convert, so you move the (perhaps aging now) client ruler to another city where he's needed?

  13. #213
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    A related question: is it possible to move the Client Ruler to another city? (ie you recruit him in one, he rules for some time, you decide this city to convert, so you move the (perhaps aging now) client ruler to another city where he's needed?
    No, not without some tinkering with traits via the console. Client Rulers are coded for the place they were originally recruited only, and removing them from that place turns them into Imposters.

  14. #214
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    No, not without some tinkering with traits via the console. Client Rulers are coded for the place they were originally recruited only, and removing them from that place turns them into Imposters.
    This is how it should be. This is just another great detail of the EBII.

    A few more questions:
    - what if I just leave the client ruler in the wilderness and don't care about him (and rebuild the city in a colony style)? Any negatives?
    - are there scripts for accidental CR rebellions in the cities, just to simulate historical (and sometimes frequent) instances them rebelling?
    - in this vein: my CRs seem to have quite high loyalty (I've got a small Pergamon state), why not to give them a very low loyalty so that they rebel outside the settlements?

    I also wondered about the number of generals/family members. I've got 3 provinces, 6 FMs, 2 CRs and 1 princess, and the game gave both a child and offers a general for the princess. After 82 turns it seems the CRs don't fully prevent from getting new FMs: the offer for a marriage is repeated every ca. 5 turns, and I got 2 children in between. My FM and FL are, however, single and I didn't any marriage offer.
    I'll see in the future how if it keeps on working like this.
    EDIT: once I got to 7-8 provinces, the engine started to offer me adoptions every turn, despite I have 7 FMs and 5 CRs.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; July 09, 2018 at 01:00 AM.

  15. #215

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    After I build the 3rd and final tier of settler colonies as Carrthage, I am still able to build the first tier of local military colonies. Is that intentional, or some sort of oversight?



    Looked through the guide, could not see an answer.
    Last edited by Rad; July 05, 2018 at 09:41 AM.

  16. #216
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    After I build the 3rd and final tier of settler colonies as Carrthage, I am still able to build the first tier of local military colonies. Is that intentional, or some sort of oversight?



    Looked through the guide, could not see an answer.
    Intentional. You'll note you can't build it up any higher than the first tier in any place that has the pre-reform governments.

  17. #217

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Thank you. So, the idea behind it was that even though the main manpower source comes from the settlers, the locals are still contributing?
    Last edited by Rad; July 05, 2018 at 01:49 PM.

  18. #218

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Intentional. You'll note you can't build it up any higher than the first tier in any place that has the pre-reform governments.
    In that case, how precisely do the Trade Colony/Settler Colony/Government/Local Colony buildings interact for Carthage? It's a bit confusing to me.

  19. #219

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivir Baggins View Post
    In that case, how precisely do the Trade Colony/Settler Colony/Government/Local Colony buildings interact for Carthage? It's a bit confusing to me.
    To clarify this and help:

    Carthage has one of the best colony setups I have used. As you prepare to go to the Kluerchy reform, build the 2nd colony building everywhere you want massive recruitment. I put them in all cities in Spain and North Africa except the 4 that give you Council Administration... Carthage, Atig, Adrumet and Lilibum.

    When the reform hits, destroy all the governments in those cities and replace them with Punic Kluerchys. Once the Kluerchys are installed, you can build the 3rd tier local colonies next to your 2nd tier Carthaginian colonies.

    The result is that you get a truly impressive array of recruitment. 6+ recruitment slots per city per turn. you can raise massive Spanish and African armies in a matter of turns.

    When you whip Rome, she is already prepared for Kluerchys because she was Western Mediterranean just like Carthage.

    If you put the 3rd tier Carthaginian colony, you can only get the 1st tier native. only do this in the 4 council admin cities. 2nd tier settler colony and 3rd tier local gives you maximum recruitment. and paved roads everywhere.

  20. #220

    Default Re: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    In my current Baktrian campaign I built an Metropolis like more than 20 turns ago and I haven't earned any colonists from it. Isn't it supposed to produce colonists each 16 turns?

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