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Thread: [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

  1. #1

    Default [Official] Faction Governments and Colonies

    The player guide is included in the EB II mod folder.

    2.35
    https://mega.nz/#!F2gRXDQC!5QRsqUFTe...Y7yKX9VQxOHxwE

    Adds the rest of the reforms and more Offices/Society. I also compressed the images so the file size went from 150MB to 30MB, that one should of been done a while ago.
    Last edited by Mantaprey; December 17, 2018 at 06:05 AM. Reason: Update 2.35

  2. #2

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Great to see somebody tackle this monster. Should be a big help for new players.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Hah, I was just working on something similar, but text based and only for Rome.

    Here's a few Rome things to note:

    1) It's spelled Pacificatio, like pacification without the final n
    2) Socii Italici makes it clear that it's Italy only, but Ius Latinorum and Muni don't necessary make it clear that the only path to them is to upgrade your Italy-only Socii.
    3) Maybe mention Province for non-Italy?
    4) What about Free Cities?
    5) There's a gotcha with the Level 3 Trade (Collegium Negotiatorum): Forum et Basilica requires LARGE city, so while Collegium only requires a city, you have to get up to LARGE to build it due to its prereq.

    Also, here's the problem I'm having: How do you make a free city, exactly?
    It looks like the requirements are:

    Have 40% or more of any one of these three: Eastern Imperial, Western Med Polities, Hellenistic Polities, or be in Illyria

    However, in my 2.04a campaign, I've just taken Segesta.

    It has 4k people and is a Large Town, so I can build a level 1 [Aedes] and a level 2 trade colony [Societas].
    But I need to hit 40% WM to build my Free City, and level 2 trade colonies only provide a culture boost up to 30%

    Furthermore, I can't build the Forum (level 3 market) in order to build the Forum et Basilica (level 4 market) that's needed for a level 3 trade colony [Collegium], which has a max of 45% WM, which finally lets me tick up to the requirements for Free City [40%]. Why not? Because it doesn't accept Regional Pacification, but only Roman Province.

    So it looks like what I have to do is build the Province, then get the city all the way up to 12k so I can get my Forum et Basilica and thus my level 3 trade colony, then wait for 40% WM, then demolish the Province building and remake Regional Pacification, then choose Free City.

    Wut.

    Maybe level 3 trade colony can be cut back to just a Forum? Or Forum et Basilica moved back down to minor city? Or are free cities supposed to be this hard? Because without faction barracks, a Province has absolutely no recruitable troops, unlike EB1.2 where you could get a couple levels of factional barracks and at least get some Rorarii or Accensi going. So unless you go for non-Romanized allied state, you're SOL unless you jump through all those hoops to get Free City, which then lets you get a select few regional troops.

    Unless I'm missing something?

    Actually, scratch that. It looks like Free City for Segesta is a dead-end recruitment-wise, anyway:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Code:
                    recruit_pool "illyrian infantry peltastai"  2  0.01  2  0  requires factions { f_rome, }  and hidden_resource illyria
                    recruit_pool "illyrian infantry hoplitai"  3  0.01  3  0  requires factions { f_rome, }  and hidden_resource illyria
                    recruit_pool "illyrian infantry peltophoroi"  2  0.01  2  0  requires factions { f_rome, }  and hidden_resource illyria
                    recruit_pool "illyrian cavalry hippeis"  1  0.01  2  0  requires factions { f_rome, }  and hidden_resource illyria
                    recruit_pool "eastern infantry archer"  1  0.01  1  0  requires factions { f_rome, }  and region_religion rel_c 40 and not hidden_resource illyria
                    recruit_pool "eastern infantry nizagan eranshahr"  2  0.01  2  0  requires factions { f_rome, }  and region_religion rel_c 40 and not hidden_resource illyria
                    recruit_pool "eastern infantry tabargane eranshahr"  3  0.01  3  0  requires factions { f_rome, }  and region_religion rel_c 40 and not hidden_resource illyria and not hidden_resource hr_river
                    recruit_pool "eastern infantry babylonian"  3  0.01  3  0  requires factions { f_rome, }  and region_religion rel_c 40 and not hidden_resource illyria and hidden_resource hr_river
                    recruit_pool "eastern cavalry asitaikoi hippeis"  1  0.01  1  0  requires factions { f_rome, }  and region_religion rel_c 40 and not hidden_resource illyria
                    recruit_pool "carthaginian infantry libyan"  3  0.01  3  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_g 40 and hidden_resource punic or hidden_resource libya
                    recruit_pool "carthaginian infantry liby phoenician"  2  0.01  2  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_g 40 and hidden_resource punic or hidden_resource libya
                    recruit_pool "carthaginian infantry libyan lonchophoroi"  3  0.01  4  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_g 40 and hidden_resource punic or hidden_resource libya
                    recruit_pool "carthaginian cavalry liby phoenician"  1  0.01  1  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_g 40 and hidden_resource punic or hidden_resource libya
                    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry akontistai"  1  0.005  1  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_h 40 and not hidden_resource illyria 
                    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry akontistai"  1  0.005  1  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_h 40 and not hidden_resource illyria and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
                    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  2  0.007  2  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_h 40 and not hidden_resource illyria
                    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  1  0.003  1  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_h 40 and not hidden_resource illyria and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
                    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry euzonoi"  2  0.01  2  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_h 40 and not hidden_resource illyria and event_counter ecThureosReform 1
                    recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippeis"  1  0.01  1  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_h 40 and not hidden_resource illyria


    Here it is filtered for just rel_g, since Segesta isn't in Illyria, and the whole point is I'm building up WM:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Code:
                    recruit_pool "carthaginian infantry libyan"  3  0.01  3  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_g 40 and hidden_resource punic or hidden_resource libya
                    recruit_pool "carthaginian infantry liby phoenician"  2  0.01  2  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_g 40 and hidden_resource punic or hidden_resource libya
                    recruit_pool "carthaginian infantry libyan lonchophoroi"  3  0.01  4  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_g 40 and hidden_resource punic or hidden_resource libya
                    recruit_pool "carthaginian cavalry liby phoenician"  1  0.01  1  0  requires factions { f_rome, } and region_religion rel_g 40 and hidden_resource punic or hidden_resource libya


    So, yeah. Free City only works if you're building WM if you're in punic or libya or illyria. So Segesta is totally unrecruitable on the Regional Pacification chain, it seems, except ships.
    LMK if I'm missing something.

    Maybe this is part of the Autumn plan, where Marian allows Legion recruitment in Segesta and other near-Italy but not-flagged-Italy provinces?
    Hopefully we can get some lower tier Roman troops before Marian pops, but that might not be part of the plan?
    Last edited by myarta; August 07, 2015 at 04:47 AM.

  4. #4
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Great stuff.

    Note Huge Cities are no longer disabled. I'm not sure they ever were.

  5. #5
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    For Pahlava you should mention that player should choose to build Royal Tribe or Allied Tribe depending on traits of his FMs. There are huge penalties if for example a member of one of royal tribes attempts to govern a city that has an Allied Tribe government (he becomes an interloper). This only matters until after the reform, but it takes good 200 turns to get the cities to the right size for Pahlava's reform to take place.

  6. #6
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    That is awesome. +rep.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Very well done. I hope you keep this updated as seeing a picture is often worth a thousand words as in the case of all these different government types.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    If this is updated to include all the Allied governments, it would answer a large percentage of questions that new players have. Thanks!

  9. #9
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mantaprey again.You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mantaprey again.






    Well anyway, well done as usual.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    May God bless your soul. But I still the Roman system incredibly confusing...

  11. #11

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by Architect of Doom View Post
    May God bless your soul. But I still the Roman system incredibly confusing...
    Perhaps this will be simpler:

    Anywhere in Italy:
    Regional Pacification -> Socii Italici -> Ius Latinorum -> Municipum

    Anywhere not in Italy:
    Regional Pacification -> Free City [3 free upkeep, recruitable local troops] OR Province [No recruitment]
    A Free City can further upgrade to a Province, but don't do this unless you're OK with losing the ability to recruit in the province.

    Further: You need culture points to make upgrades along the Italy chain
    To get culture points, you build military colonies in Italy.

    These are offered on turn 21 and then every 16 turns after that, and it's popped up as an advisor message.


    To get from Socii to Ius, you need 60% culture. This means you need the 2nd level of military colony, the Colonia Latina Minora, since that raises culture up to 60%
    To get from Ius to Muni, you need 80% culture. No further action is required, because the Ius building raises culture. Just wait.

    What counts as Italy? These seven places, arranged N to S:
    Arretium, Ariminum, Rome, Capua, Arpi, Tarentum, Rhegion



    The trade colonies [Aedes/Societas/Collegium Negotiatorum] are used outside of Italy to raise culture %, but there doesn't seem to be much point to this since you can't use that culture for anything, except Free City once you get 40%, but even there unless it's in a particular region it won't offer useful troops. I'm omitting those details as irrelevant and for clarity.

    ETA: Raising your culture points outside Italy at least helps reduce unrest, though at this time there are recruitment or building goals it helps with.


    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by myarta; August 13, 2015 at 05:07 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by myarta View Post
    Hope that helps.
    It did, thanks.

  13. #13
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    The trade colonies [Aedes/Societas/Collegium Negotiatorum] are used outside of Italy to raise culture %, but there doesn't seem to be much point to this since you can't use that culture for anything
    They are crucial and I build them often even before the government building itself. The more of a province is of your culture, the less it wants to revolt from you.

    I think devs shuld add cultural conversion to Provincia Romana, by the way, there'd be some upside to the absolute and eternal lack of recruitment there.
    Last edited by delra; August 08, 2015 at 01:15 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    In fact Provincia Romana does have conversion

    We will either find a way, or make one.


  15. #15

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Great stuff.

    Note Huge Cities are no longer disabled. I'm not sure they ever were.
    What was 'HugeCremove.bat' ? don't need to keep that thing around anymore?

    For Pahlava you should mention that player should choose to build Royal Tribe or Allied Tribe depending on traits of his FMs. There are huge penalties if for example a member of one of royal tribes attempts to govern a city that has an Allied Tribe government (he becomes an interloper). This only matters until after the reform, but it takes good 200 turns to get the cities to the right size for Pahlava's reform to take place.
    I will remember this it will be in the infomation.



    Iv been going through the EDB and its actually easy to read with note++ it makes sense to me, so i can correct the gov trees a lot faster than i thought. Also Poppis finished the Rome template, wow it looks good!

  16. #16
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantaprey View Post
    What was 'HugeCremove.bat' ? don't need to keep that thing around anymore?
    It was removing the incomplete files for the cultures which didn't have a working huge city model. Instead they default to those that do.

  17. #17
    Boogie Knight's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    This is very helpful, thank you.

    The whole system of government types and colonies is so confusing to me that I feel dumb just trying to work it out. Now I've never claimed to the smartest guy in the world, but I like to think I'm not entirely stupid. It sort of puts me off wanting to try the more 'civilised' factions as the whole mechanic seems to be more complicated for them. With any luck this will help to remedy that. I mean, I still find this entire system to be beyond mind-boggling, but hopefully a bit of study on these diagrams should help.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Great OP mate! + rep
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

    Arche Aiakidae-Epeiros EB2 AAR

  19. #19

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Pahlava template. possibly discovered an untested reform/event Indo-Parthia

    Does Rome get colonists from the Municipia government? or just automatically constantly?

    Is 'eastern hidden resource' from Babylon to Baktria? or does it start at Antiochia, Syria?
    Last edited by Mantaprey; August 09, 2015 at 11:38 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Faction Governments and Colonies

    Eastern hidden_resource map:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Credits go to Gigantus for the map. I really hope he doesn't mind me posting these!

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