[Submod] DEI for Multiplayer battles

[Kranos]

First version done by KAM

Changelog:


-Faster battles submod is the base
-decreased missile spread for better pre battle skirmish
-increased unit speed for sake of dynamics
-increased cav and elephant charge by 25%
-increased hit chance for more dynamic battles
-increased penalties for flanking and rear attack since players can handle those situations better then the AI


http://www.mediafire.com/download/dz...playerdei.pack

if you want to try it online check this thread

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ubmod-to-test)

[KAM 2150]

I can make one next week, just give me some notes about what you want to be changed because general speed stuff are easy to do, for example all cav charges can be changed in a minute.

[Kranos]

Make the battles work as close as possible to vanilla. Not sure what to ask you. We need only the rosters. You guy probably worked at the formations and spacing as well but I suppose its too much work there. The same for your AI tweakings. Those are not nevessary for MP.

Also the increased unit size is not a good idea for MP so pls.revert the unit size to vanilla.

Some compatibility questions: Steam version is not MP compatible with standalone one? If Im using CA mod manager and opponent that community mod manager will raise compatibility issue? Is the latter still updated and working with the latets Rome patch?

[KAM 2150]

Well, for units size I can say that simply lower it in battle options as vanilla sizes would take too much time as we do not go with vanilla scheme since we have units with 175,200,256,300 men etc.

Steam and standalone are compatible as far as I know but for now steam and standalone are made for different patches, both will be again working the same after patch 17 will go live. As for mod manager it won't work witch patch 17.

Well, AI tweaks won't change much as AI is unmodable, hence I never really changed anything there.

Rest should be fairly easy.

Curiosity question, really not intended as rude. What is the point of playing a realism mod purely for battles if you only want additional units with arcade battles?

[Kranos]

not sure I get your question but I dont think there is another mod out there comparable in terms of rosters size and (relatively) historical accuracy. Coming from Europa Barbarorum I cant play just any mod even for MP purposes. Furthermore the others like the SP so its not only about me.

Dont know what to say about realism but in general very slow paced battles with relatively ineficient cav charges and any other changes that have effect in this way combined with poor performace of a game isnt very fun on MP.

I dont know what you can do on this but we definetly need test this out and see what really works for MP. Changing things can result in great inbalance between factions and units. Did you guys significantly lowered the cost of cav units as well along with their nerfing? if so if youll make them efective again it will result a great inbalace and favor the spam of cav units of lower price. Unit costs are again essential for MP along with a set of rules to prevent the spam of units and also to favor some realistic and balanced army compositions which on EB were based on costs (as you can see in the thread I linked in OP)

[PREVIEW] Divide et Impera 1.1 Overview and Previews Collection

Animations and Battles Overhaul
- Hoplite animations have been completely redone. Instead of having our lack-of-formation hoplites, you will see true hoplites in their phalanx as they should be.
- Roman sword animations have been redone. They will march as proper Romans and then form up into their historical formations, using their gladius as they actually did.
- Triarii and other early Roman elite spear units have special animations, including an "at rest" one. Other animations from vanilla have been improved also, such as elephants.
- Many battle system changes including a missile overhaul, multiple improvements to combat pace and unit balance, etc. This is a WIP and more details will be in the Battle preview.

These are nice as long as they dont prolong the battles too much.

[KAM 2150]

Cav units are the single best units in this mod, that is why they cost soo much. If you have one unit of cataphracts and opponent has no cav to counter it, they you can just pin his units and rout hundreds of troops. Charge is only nerfed frontally as in ancient times frontal charge was simply weak and near impossible due to lack of certain stuff. Still, there are many cavalry units in this mod that can rout heavy infantry frontally, you will just need more then one charge to do that. In other words, unit cost is linked with how good that unit can be in hands of player.

1.1 won't prolong stuff, rather the opposite.

[Kranos]

well then you pretty much followed the path of EB. Back charges were more effective in EB though and one wouldnt have to constantly retreat and charge again just to rout a single unit even with a very heavy shock cav. In MP youll dont have too mnay chnages to get in the back of your opponent and your cav units lose way more stamina and men than against AI so this kinda subdue the accent on tactics you targeted with these slow battles.

[KAM 2150]

Nope, it makes tactics even more important as single charge from good cav into the back routes everything ;D I will try to make vanilla version tomorrow so we will work on what you want.

[Kranos]

thats one POV but seriuously if you havent put enough of time in MP this is mostly an idylic view of the battle. Slower paced battles are more for saving the AI ass lets face it. In MP all is and should be the speed of reaction.
And nope a single charge from the back even perfectly done in most cases and under normal circumstances cant rout your opponent whole army even on Rome 2 vanilla not to mention on EB mod. Ofc Im talking about MP scenarios. And if I would agree that can happen I dont see how the tactics arent involve here since you have to be even more cautious to guard better the back of your lines and not feeling too secure they will hold enough until you can remedy the situation.

[KAM 2150]

Actually you are wrong on slow pace battles in favour of AI. It works the opposit way, crapy AI from CA was made for their odd scripts that let AI "think" only in terms of fast battles, for example AI infantry units won't stop attacking picked target at the beggining of battle until they will win or die. That is the reason why AI is so easy to flank, because it does not understand it. That is why battles even in basic DeI are rather fast compared to some other mods, because with all due respect, 30 minute battle as regular means that player will abuse the slow pace as AI does not understand that it can pull units back, protect flanks, circle players units intentionaly etc.

Also I do not understand why you wrote about cav unit routing entire army, I never said anything like that, that would be uterly bad thing for balance. I wrote that with single cav charge to the back you can rout enemy unit without problem.

Anyway, the submod should be ready in few hours, hope you will find it useful

[KAM 2150]

First version done, give me your thoughts as I do not have much time to test stuff.

Chanelog:

-Faster battles submod is the base
-decreased missile spread for better pre battle skirmish
-increased unit speed for sake of dynamics
-increased cav and elephant charge by 25%
-increased hit chance for more dynamic battles
-increased penalties for flanking and rear attack since players can handle those situations better then the AI

http://www.mediafire.com/download/dz...playerdei.pack

[Kranos]

Ok Ive tested some flanking scenarios and cavalry charges in the back and put the archers to the test against different targets. Still very different than vanilla but it was expected. Are these changes meant to get closer to vanilla or youve put you own perspective in this? or both? For the begining I think we need to get this as close to vanilla and maybe later we can see what othe chnages can be done.

As far as archers are concerned they are still very far from vanilla effectiveness. In fact I used 3 units of cretan archers and concentrate fire in the back of several phalanx units from close distance and they were droping down quite slow (like 4-5 men per round).

I saw you increased the penalties for flanking and rear atack. Ive noticed all the units even the elite one start to wavering very fast now when charged in the back. Not sure we want this as it isnt the way how vanilla works.

Cav charges. Ive compared the Macedonian hetairoi charges with the Companion cav ones from the vanilla. They seem more effective now but dont know if they get a similar ammount of kills in the moment of impact.

Phalanx definetely need to kill more.

Im new to Rome 2 modding but I wander what are the files you are working with in order to do this?

We should meet online on Steam to have a decent chat. Ive already befriend you there.


Also for the sake of being well organized an have all things in one place it would be nice to have a subforum for multiplayer where to include our threads.

[Luis Daoiz y Velarde]

Like I said in the other post, I don't like the changelog at all, faster battles is only meant to help AI by restricting the player time to react and apply tactics.
For me a MP submod should be exactly the oppositte, without unbalancing the mod to much