Ancient Empires: Divide et Impera - Upd. 2/13/2016

**Draewn** · August 14, 2015, 06:33 PM

Well, these cultural levels are also to some extent seeming to represent levels of political control and influence - thus each one having a "subculture" largely consisting of factionalism / local authority in the regions, with the player needing to either surpass that or play very softball with their people to prevent unrest. So it's not that Syracuse isn't Hellenic (which would indeed be absurd) but that achieving political control of all Sicily not just in terms of the notional loyalty of the rulers but actual facts-on-the-ground RULE is difficult stuff.

**Mietek88** · August 15, 2015, 06:31 AM

Playing Macedonia after 4 rounds can not recruit units, because the cultural level has dropped below 30. Playing Seleucid can not recruit hellenic units. I think you can lower the threshold of recruitment from 30 to 5.

**Mietek88** · August 15, 2015, 06:49 AM

The level of Hellenic culture in Syria reduced to 8, in Babylon to 5. At the same time lessen ksry for the presence of other kultur.Macedon was a unitary country, the Hellenic Seleucid Empire, people were a minority. PS. Sory for my english.

**ABH2** · August 15, 2015, 06:52 AM

The AOR issue is a serious bug. Macedon should not lose the ability to recruit in its home territories n matter what, however. Same with anyone else. I plan to do some major bug fixing today on this and I will take a look.

Well, these cultural levels are also to some extent seeming to represent levels of political control and influence - thus each one having a "subculture" largely consisting of factionalism / local authority in the regions, with the player needing to either surpass that or play very softball with their people to prevent unrest. So it's not that Syracuse isn't Hellenic (which would indeed be absurd) but that achieving political control of all Sicily not just in terms of the notional loyalty of the rulers but actual facts-on-the-ground RULE is difficult stuff.

This is the idea. With the generic religious system of vanilla, many cultures can basically sweep their neighbors with no real public order issues which is unrealistic and, at least in my view, causes issues. Not saying our solution is the best or perfect.

Conversion has also been slowed down quite a bit. Because it took a while to consolidate new people. Growth in this game should work slow at the start to build the foundations of an empire and speed up in the late game, ideally, as the there is more consolidation across the map. Some factions like Rome and Carthage should have an easier time at the start. The AI sucks so this system is mainly meant for the player.

To convert, build temples. It's not overly complicated. You just need to devote resources to it.

**vpapako** · August 15, 2015, 09:13 AM

ABH2 my idea always was that ruling people who have a different culture than their overlord shouldn't be such a pain in the neck. Before nationalism emerged as an idea between the 17th and 18th centuries people were not than crazy about being ruled by whoever. Also , they were a lot fewer. And cultural assimilation wasn't sth that polities really pursued.

Gamewise, since you go for cultural diversity in this submod perhaps lower public order penalties (which I think you did) , and fixing the recruitment issue. PO is a very troubling thing in this game in general.

**Mietek88** · August 15, 2015, 07:29 AM

Now play Macedon, Seleucid, Pont game the same way. They differ in the number prownincji, units.

**ABH2** · August 15, 2015, 09:48 AM

ABH2 my idea always was that ruling people who have a different culture than their overlord shouldn't be such a pain in the neck. Before nationalism emerged as an idea between the 17th and 18th centuries people were not than crazy about being ruled by whoever. Also , they were a lot fewer. And cultural assimilation wasn't sth that polities really pursued.

This is why there is a tiered system and it's supposed to represent political influence. And consolidation is something necessary to forming a large empire along with political affiliation. Any group of Gauls will have trouble expanding, especially in the first stages, do to conflicting cultures. All cultures do not interact the same, either.

The point is ruling new territory in general should be a pain. Because it was. Rome faced revolts among its Italian allies in the 1st century BC. It had revolts in Gaul, Illyria, Greece/Macedonia, Asia Minor, and Britannia. Obviously Judea. It had client states become unruly and threatened Africa (Numidia). It took a series of wars, rather than one, to pacify most regions. Rome dealt with Illyrian revolts for several centuries where as in this game, you conquer and public order is something you barely have to worry about after the initial few turns it takes you to get it straightened out. Any barbarian group would have had a lot of difficulty conquering its neighbors, and when one gained dominance over the other it didn't typically last long. Dacia, for instance, is broken up at the start of the Imperator Augustus campaign in this mod because while it had in the 1st century been turned into a larger kingdom, it quickly broke up.

Where empires failed to create any unifying aspects, such as in the Hellenistic states (the Seleucids), they crumbled from far flung revolts. Attempts to impose their culture in the 2nd century led to revolts closer to their 'home region' in this game in Syria. They conquered much faster under Alexander, and the colonists made up a small percentage of the population compared to Rome which expanded slowly over a period of time, but colonized its territories more heavily such as in Italy. It created a larger and more stable core.

The Carthaginians established a hegemony over other Punic colonies, but showed little ability to do so with conquered people. Iberians and Numidians were only kept in check with force and gifts.

So I object to your overall argument. Public order should be hard. If people don't like it, a submod isn't too difficult. But the main mod has a particular vision here, and public order is a part of that.

**vpapako** · August 15, 2015, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by ABH2

So I object to your overall argument. Public order should be hard. If people don't like it, a submod isn't too difficult. But the main mod has a particular vision here, and public order is a part of that.

No, you got me wrong , I think that the way you are handling it so far is a good representation of what I am saying, with fixing the recruitment issue in home provinces being the main concern.

**Mietek88** · August 15, 2015, 02:49 PM

The solution would be for Member diadochi event on the possibility of colonization. He had to cost a lot, for example, 5000 and operate 10 turns. Hellenic culture would increase by 0.5%.

**ABH2** · August 15, 2015, 06:23 PM

So, releasing a fix now. Quite a few fixes:

Combat balance changes.
All units should now have lowered stats. Every. Single. One.
Added improvements to the better water mod thanks to VHS/Voythas.
Fixed bug related to the rough ground region effect impact native armies instead of foreign.
Fixed Pontic starting general having a naval unit.
Sardinia rebel faction flag works now
In tech tree, buildings unlocked will now show up for research (hat tip Dresden for this one)
Fixes to emergent factions in Dacia and Parthia which were causing CTD's.
Reduced public order penalties for occupying, and looting being too severe.
Immunities to attritions given to new factions, such as Massylii.

On the recruitment in home provinces - no one should actually be barred from doing so. Macedon isn't from testing it, Pontus isn't, Massilia isn't. The main issue right now is AOR doesn't work.

And as for the dropping religions, Mietek88 - it's impossible in this mod for Hellenistic to lose its dominant status in Macedon within 4 or even 10 turns. The conversion rate is too slow for that. Even if it did, the home region mechanic should be working for Hellenistic. Massilia also wasn't barred from recruiting in its home region.

**Massicio2** · August 15, 2015, 06:31 PM

Does AE have something preventing camera release mods? Pretty sure its in DeI but I also tried with a separate camera release mod and wouldn't work.

**ABH2** · August 15, 2015, 06:37 PM

No, there shouldn't be anything preventing it. Our mod will load above most or just about any mod I've seen with the @ symbol in its name. Could be that.

**Massicio2** · August 15, 2015, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by ABH2

No, there shouldn't be anything preventing it. Our mod will load above most or just about any mod I've seen with the @ symbol in its name. Could be that.

Hm really odd. The campaign map is fine with the camera release its only the battles that are restricted.

**airborne guy** · August 15, 2015, 08:44 PM

Is your mod compatible with this....

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...2015-UPDATE***

**ABH2** · August 15, 2015, 09:18 PM

I have contacted XIIICaesar about making it compatible, but the talks didn't go anywhere. It wouldn't be too hard for us to scale the stats down and make a small submod of this...submod for those who want to use it, though initially I wanted to include it in the mod itself.

**Eldgrimr** · August 16, 2015, 04:00 AM

The submod seems great so far, but I just have one question. Would it be possible to have a version with authentic faction and unit names, such as in default DeI? For example Rome=Roma.