Ancient Empires: Divide et Impera - Upd. 2/13/2016

[ABH2]

The rooster of the ugliest units

I am curious on this one. What specifically are you referring to? Colors? There is an issue there that will be a quick fix for us.

I'm assuming you played DeI before.

[GatoVolador]

Speed of units is weird. Light units move normally, but medium and heavy seem to walk through water. I wasn't able to catch a unit of slingers with medium baktrian cav. On top of that they turned winded somewhere in between the chase...
Is this intended?

[Petellius]

Water maybe a problem I'll have to check but cav is intentionally slower unless charging. Also the speed of infantry hadn't actually been changed from DeI, just the charges. Both charges and speed will be increased. Morale changes will be looked at and casualties increased.

I've yet to get our battle mechanics to quite gel with DeI stats.

[ABH2]

It's a big task. DeI has a ton of units. Probably some 1800 that end up in the campaign, and then a ton of equipment given to those units, and battle entities and so on.

A lot of respect for KaM for the work he put into to balance that stuff. It's going to take us a little bit of time to get it right with our new mechanics.

[Dresden]

Battle balance took almost 6 months prior to 1.0 release and we are still working on it actively. It is a major headache with the unit count. KAM somewhat simplified it with custom weapon/shield/armor entries but its still a mammoth task.

[veverčák]

Hello Folks!

I have recently try to play Carthage campaign and notice some stuff.

a) After the leveling of my general I got some weird choices. I click on Skilled Tactician and basically every skill gets mixed up stats. For example the one giving the night battle option gives +3% construct cost. The other one for sieging +5 Public Order etc. Almost thing happen to Army Tradition. My Army get +3% for melee skill for assault ships.

b) Carthage get only 2 factions/clans to pick from. Magonid faction than get trait Corruption which is giving +6% tax rate. Is it bug or WAD?

c) The first technology take 7 turns to reserch. Again is it WAD or bug? And in the case of WAD are you thinking about possibility to change it back to 4 turns/standard DEI research rate?

Perhaps it is not important/factor but my Windows 8 got upgraded today, so it could perhaps mess some files? But then integrity check did not find any problems and this sub mod I have downloaded after the upgrade.

[Maetharin]

First of all, congrats on the Release!

Is this submod compatible with the faster battles submod? I'd like to try our how that would influence battles.

In combination with that I'd increase shield strength a little, this way it won't have that much of an impact in frontline combat!

What do you guys think of this idea?

Best regards

[SpardaSon21]

I've done a couple test games as Athens and the Aetolians, and neither of them have cultural dominance in their regions, and combined with the existing DeI recruitment this means they cannot recruit any of their core units. Is this going to be fixed at some point?

[KAM 2150]

yeah they seem more usefull now. I wonder why they were on larger scale anyway. there were huge differences between units stats?

Well, there are few reasons why I myself will never go for small scale. Two major reasons are difficulty level and campaign progression.

With the frist one, game is unplayable on legendary as it forces you to play with VH battle difficulty, which means +7 to most of AI units stat. That makes levies rout your hypaspists. That is not fun ; P That plus most of people not realizing that higher battle difficulty = more AI stat bonuses and they spam threads about how unit x routed y this mod sucks etc Additionaly with higher scale you can play with Hard battles and have fun as AI units will present a bit bigger challange but not unbearable. The same goes for VH with larger scale, it is tough but manageable if it is someones cup of tea.

As for campaign progression, units get various stat bonuses from exp, army traits, general traits, tech, building and so on. I know that it might be realistic for some super hardened hastati with all shevrons possible to go toe to toe to some elite units or have comparable stats. But that does not work for gameplay as player has no need for upgrade. You basically go with some starting units up till the end of campaign because they can go to to toe with elite units that all musters. That with having some provines fully dedicated for OP units produced armies that were simply to strong for AI to counter as AI is unable to both present any tactics in battle and nurse its units to that kind of training and equpement. That aspect is even more improved for 1.1.

[Sheridan]

Well, there are few reasons why I myself will never go for small scale. Two major reasons are difficulty level and campaign progression.

With the frist one, game is unplayable on legendary as it forces you to play with VH battle difficulty, which means +7 to most of AI units stat. That makes levies rout your hypaspists. That is not fun ; P That plus most of people not realizing that higher battle difficulty = more AI stat bonuses and they spam threads about how unit x routed y this mod sucks etc Additionaly with higher scale you can play with Hard battles and have fun as AI units will present a bit bigger challange but not unbearable. The same goes for VH with larger scale, it is tough but manageable if it is someones cup of tea.

As for campaign progression, units get various stat bonuses from exp, army traits, general traits, tech, building and so on. I know that it might be realistic for some super hardened hastati with all shevrons possible to go toe to toe to some elite units or have comparable stats. But that does not work for gameplay as player has no need for upgrade. You basically go with some starting units up till the end of campaign because they can go to to toe with elite units that all musters. That with having some provines fully dedicated for OP units produced armies that were simply to strong for AI to counter as AI is unable to both present any tactics in battle and nurse its units to that kind of training and equpement. That aspect is even more improved for 1.1.

To my memory, there was a very prominent morale buff to the AI on higher difficulties. It kind of spoiled all and any balance on the lower scale. Luckily, this is not the case with Attila, where morale from difficulty levels can actually be determined in the table. As for other bonuses, I wonder how true that is. It certainly can't be melee damage, that would make itself very visible in this combat system. Melee attack and defence are plausible, if unlikely, and I'm confident this is not the case in Attila.

In the campaign, it's a matter of limiting effects to the actual campaign, and units as little as possible. We've been very careful to only buff units from a very small number of sources; army traditions, attributes, a very small number of traits and certain buildings. Even then, only a neglectible number of these will have that effect, the majority will concern the campaign in some way. By limiting the effectiveness of chevrons, as well as the experience required for new levels - done in conjunction with how the "discipline"/training level is assigned in the combat sheet - elite units won't lose any of their purpose.

[KAM 2150]

In Rome it is melee attack, melee def and morale, those for sure, otherwise levies with 14 attack would not win with 20 attack units with sligtly superior armour ;P It was tested by a bit of people.

[SpardaSon21]

After playing a bit and thinking through what you're trying to do by having culture represent your actual cultural control of the area, perhaps just tie it to all buildings to represent greater centralized control of the area via urbanization and central development?

EDIT: If that's done, then cultural assimilation can happen a lot faster, assuming you have undisputed control of the province. However, if there's competing regional power structures in place, then it should be much harder to exert your own control over the area.

[ABH2]

Adding in new effects for culture conversion wouldn't be an issue.

But the way the game works, it's not really about how many cultures are there competing. The reason its slower is I've set it far slower with campaign_variables. Basically, it's as slow as it can be. It would be very easy for someone to release a submod to speed up the rate. When I get all the bugs ironed out, I will throw in some submods like that for people to get some variety.

[stevey1112]

Hey Guys, thanks for a Great mod. I just started a Rome Campaign and it seems very authentic, the Map with walls for Syracuse especially.
One thing that struck me was that you still have the Event messages about Carthage and Syracuse from DEI and they don't make sense
in the new Campaign. It is really good to have decent Armies at the start as well and I had a big clash with Carthage for Panormus that
lasted half an hour. It is a shame that nothing can be done about the AI attacking from Boats with skirmishers and cavalry minus their
horses but I know that probably can't be fixed. Really looking forward to continuing my Campaign.

[vpapako]

Hi guys, I redirected myself here from you TWAttila thread. I 've done some testing and the most notable things I found so far were: The Macedonians having bactrian units and units never routing, which you fixed superfast (Kudos once more), the tech tree not showing buildings that unlock with each research project, traits for generals being a little messed up, units sometimes routing for no apparent reason. Also, playing as Sparta in my second turn I got the mission achieved message, (completely controlling 2 provinces blah blah) just because I allied myself with Egypt.

Some things that are more preferential now. I noticed you use a lot the relations penalty as a faction trait, and major instead of minor. This becomes kind of a "everyone attack me trait", I don't think the CAI can use it properly and I'd rather you decreased the penalty. Also I'd rather you used all of the DEI models as they are and the new DEI generals. Also, if cultural conversion is going to be as slow as possible, (which is nice), perhaps you should lower a bit the public order penalties, or add cultural techs that give big public order bonuses.

And a bit of praise. The edicts you added are imho just amazing. They are more important gamewise now and much more interesting.

Once more, congrats on this release, cant wait for the future versions.

[SpardaSon21]

Adding in new effects for culture conversion wouldn't be an issue.

But the way the game works, it's not really about how many cultures are there competing. The reason its slower is I've set it far slower with campaign_variables. Basically, it's as slow as it can be. It would be very easy for someone to release a submod to speed up the rate. When I get all the bugs ironed out, I will throw in some submods like that for people to get some variety.

That's not entirely my point. The point I'm trying to make is your painfully slow cultural conversion combined with starting cultural differences in starting regions and the way AE uses the existing DeI cultural recruitment system means I'm 45 turns into a game as the Iceni, have total control over my starting province, and I'm still stuck using the local levy units, while my opponents in the area were able to recruit the core Britannic troops from turn 1.

[kwnic]

Great work so far. I'm really enjoying the map and culture additions!

Just wanted to post some feedback on my Seleucid test campaign.

Though there is an increase in provincial ownership it does not feel like it made the Seleucid Empire significantly stronger. You feel quite stretched to defend your lands from potential threats that surround you on all sides, especially with fairly strong satrapies that hate you at the start of the game. There is a constant fear of being at war with too many other factions at once and not being able to defend your lands.

I ran into a couple of issues playing though. The biggest one was the difficulty of converting culture to my own in order to create my core units. The entire time I played I could only recruit local or mercenaries. I was never able to increase my cultural conversion enough. I understand that it should be difficult at the start of the game, but even with a level 3 Temple of Zeus and a Governor I was unable to make a significant increase. It was only going up .5% per turn and this was around turn 30 so up to this point my main culture was decreasing even with level 1 and 2 temples. I was mainly losing the the Hellenistic Elites which seems to never decrease no matter how high my conversion rate is.

Perhaps and increase in the conversion strength would help fix this issue.

Another issue I ran into was due to the increased campaign map movement distance, it allowed the AI to come in and suddenly take out my client states in one turn when their army was out of their city. I could do nothing to stop it.

A last note, I have been using KAM's experimental battle pack so the battles feel very slow. It would not be possible to use KAM's mod with this mod correct?

This I am really enjoying the campaign map. It adds a lot of diversity with many new factions and new turns of events. I hope you guys continue the good work!

[La Tene]

I'm currently not playing this only because the DeI patch 16 pak download seems to be removed. Anyway, the upkeep modifiers seem way too much and I think the very high campaign movement range will mean very few battles will end up in the open terrain which is unfortunate. Although I'm pretty interested to see how the very long move ranges do in fact play out. Perhaps increase the minor settlement field battle likelihood to compensate.

With difficulty settings giving the AI dirt cheap armies combined with long movement ranges I can imagine some really annoying enemy assaults. Just some food for thought.

[ABH2]

Ok, quite a few fixes to report here:

• More thorough battle overhaul, pacing issues and kill rates should be fixed.
• Fixed character skills, traits, and everything related to that.
• Semi-corrected AOR script issue. Some playable factions (mostly minor ones) will not have working AOR. It's entirely off for them. For most factions, it should be working. AOR will not work in HaTG at the moment.
• Reduced public order hit from different religions based on campaign difficulty.
• Cut out faction uniforms - now back to use DeI's. Not sure if this caused any real issues.
• Fixed three faction selection maps (minor)

It is a shame that nothing can be done about the AI attacking from Boats with skirmishers and cavalry minus their
horses but I know that probably can't be fixed.

The only thing we can do is disincentivize the AI there not to go sailing. There's a few more things I'd like to try there.

vpapako - Working on many of the things you brought up, and some new things you brought to our attention. Thanks.

That's not entirely my point. The point I'm trying to make is your painfully slow cultural conversion combined with starting cultural differences in starting regions and the way AE uses the existing DeI cultural recruitment system means I'm 45 turns into a game as the Iceni, have total control over my starting province, and I'm still stuck using the local levy units, while my opponents in the area were able to recruit the core Britannic troops from turn 1.

As the Iceni, you would have been running into a screw-up on my part, but not related to cultural conversion rates. This should be fixed now with the latest release. Iceni should work fine AOR wise. The issue was that the home regions weren't working for them so you were stuck with levies even whe you shouldn't have been. On another note, I've reduced public order penalties.

I may start to tick back up cultural conversion a bit, though I'd still keep it slower than people are used to.

I ran into a couple of issues playing though. The biggest one was the difficulty of converting culture to my own in order to create my core units. The entire time I played I could only recruit local or mercenaries. I was never able to increase my cultural conversion enough. I understand that it should be difficult at the start of the game, but even with a level 3 Temple of Zeus and a Governor I was unable to make a significant increase. It was only going up .5% per turn and this was around turn 30 so up to this point my main culture was decreasing even with level 1 and 2 temples. I was mainly losing the the Hellenistic Elites which seems to never decrease no matter how high my conversion rate is.

Unfortunately, similar bug to above. Hellenistic AOR should work properly now, though you will still struggle with conversion.

Honestly, though, I'm glad you were struggling to defend territory. Not glad you were stuck to crummy units the entire time doing it. I do think you as the player, especially with increased movement points here, should be able to recruit your core units and move them where you need be. Hopefully as the Seleucids public order is a nightmare on the fringes and you have people encroaching and picking away at you. This is what I'd like to see for them. Only, with actual access to your core faction roster from the start. That was, again, my screw-up.

Another issue I ran into was due to the increased campaign map movement distance, it allowed the AI to come in and suddenly take out my client states in one turn when their army was out of their city. I could do nothing to stop it.

On this point, I would again say this is a good thing. Isn't the point of a challenging campaign that you get caught off guard? And you don't think this happened in real life in a territory the size of the Seleucids?

A lot of the features here (when they are all working right) are designed to make the player plan ahead and take precautions. It's the entire goal here.

A last note, I have been using KAM's experimental battle pack so the battles feel very slow. It would not be possible to use KAM's mod with this mod correct?

No, it wouldn't. That actually is *not* how our battles are supposed to operate normally. Our battle system was faster than DeI vanilla. It was actually quite polished, as well, before we decided to do this DeI submod. But then bringing it all in, having been focusing on Attila for so long...

Well, I can't apologize enough for the slop and bugs.

Anyway, the upkeep modifiers seem way too much and I think the very high campaign movement range will mean very few battles will end up in the open terrain which is unfortunate.

I would ask that you tried it before knocking it. When I first tested increased movement points, what I liked about it was that the AI would attack my armies. It was the exact opposite of what you're saying.

The AI is bad at planning ahead. But with increased (and, frankly, historically accurate) movement ranges, it's as simple as identifying and attacking. Blitzing as someone else said, though negatively. The AI isn't going to out think you over the long term, but it can catch you off guard and be opportunistic when its made simple enough for it. I worried increased movement would make it too easy for the player, but then I actually found myself ganged up on by AI stacks.

With difficulty settings giving the AI dirt cheap armies combined with long movement ranges I can imagine some really annoying enemy assaults. Just some food for thought.

Which is why the player has to protect their territory and plan? It's not as if you can't defend your border regions? The Romans kept them garrisoned for a reason.

[TFCAliarcy]

Something I noticed during a Parthia campaign is that a lot of the Eastern Provinces don't have any AoR. Instead of increasing conversion rate throughout the entire map why not increase the conversion rate in a major faction home province to be the normal rate.