Very poor FM stats

[Thuycidides]

I would like to make the case that player FM stats should not always be so poor in future versions as they are now. If you view a FM from an AI faction, their stats are usually much better than your FM stats, but I've been told that I should never expect my FMs to be comparable.

The extremely poor FM stats hurt my ability to get into the game. It would be one thing if some of my FMs had high loyalty and some of them low, but 90% of them are just terrible. I mouse over their loyalty and I read about how untrustworthy and how ready to backstab they are. Influence is less than a stuffed olive, etc. Even the command trait remains low despite winning a dozen battles. While command stars might not matter to game mechanics much except for auto-resolving battles, I want them as a signature of a victory.

In another thread I read that putting your FM in the capital with the FL should boost loyalty. It sometimes helps a bit. In other cases I've left a new FM there for 5-6 years with the FL and they still have 1-2 loyalty, or even 0.

"You shouldn't want better FM stats" arguments are non-starters. Give me some reason to care about these FMs in addition to their cavalry charge. Give me a reason to try to develop them, educate them. Right now in 2.04 most are more of a liability than a help.

[QuintusSertorius]

Command stars are now also linked to the CommandExperience trait; the easiest way to get them is by commanding in battles, since Veteran (four battles in charge) is +1 star.

This is mostly due to the unfinished state of the character traits; while we've done some updating as we've been going, a full re-work is a big undertaking that will only be completed with the autumn release. That's why for now all you've been getting are piecemeal patches, such as the aforementioned tacking of Command stars onto experience and giving the Faction Heir a loyalty boost.

Some of it is also due to the assignment of traits in starting characters, who are fathering later FMs, who may inherit similar traits. I've already made some alterations to some starting FMs who all seemed to have the same loyalty number.

On one point, though, nothing is going to change: AI FMs. The AI is incapable of properly managing it's Family Members, to use the same system for the human player and AI is effectively an exploit in favour of the human. Especially now that most ancillaries are transferable, so you can give a governor one set of ancillaries, and a general another, and move them around. Thus the AI will continue to get boosts to it's traits, to compensate for being less capable than the human player.

[Jervaj]

I can swear that they are already on it and the situations has already improved a lot. Before having someone with more than 0 command stars was a miracle. Now you can build up a bit.

I hope that keeps improving in the autunm release and that there are more faction related traits for everyone like the romans have.

[Hummer]

I don't have FM issues. I regularly get 5 command star FM's. You just have to use them a lot to grow them. I think since at least 2.03k this has been improved.

[Jervaj]

Yeah, anyone you use actively gets arroudn that level unless very unlucky or with bad starting traits now.

WHat I find more problematic though is building up good governors, even when the character has tendency and potential msot end getting bad traits for it.

[delra]

I find governors getting better when you run cities on high taxes. On very low taxation tehy don't get pretty much any good stuff, like that miner retinue (+25% mining income == AKA 11000 profit per turn from Sardis).

In all honesty, since this isn't Third Age and breeding doesn't matter much as much isn't inherited generation to generation, and since each next generation is going to be a bunch of DUL mongoloids anyway, there's little incentive to be serious about the RPG part of the game. So I ignore for the most part, outside of Roman offices and some education.

Hopefully next bigger release we get back Agoge and maybe Olympics. That'd help.

[QuintusSertorius]

Hopefully next bigger release we get back Agoge and maybe Olympics. That'd help.

The Agoge is back, have you not tried it out?

[clone]

The Agoge is back, have you not tried it out?

will the atumn release is going to have spartan hoplites?

[QuintusSertorius]

will the atumn release is going to have spartan hoplites?

Not sure; they're on the list of units to be done, they have a concept, just depends what we fit in.

[delra]

The Agoge is back, have you not tried it out?

Ooooh. Why noone told me! :-D

will the atumn release is going to have spartan hoplites?

Were they really of use at that time in history? I thought even in the 300s BC there were only like a thousand real spartiates, and that declined over time too?

[Jervaj]

I find governors getting better when you run cities on high taxes. On very low taxation tehy don't get pretty much any good stuff, like that miner retinue (+25% mining income == AKA 11000 profit per turn from Sardis).

In all honesty, since this isn't Third Age and breeding doesn't matter much as much isn't inherited generation to generation, and since each next generation is going to be a bunch of DUL mongoloids anyway, there's little incentive to be serious about the RPG part of the game. So I ignore for the most part, outside of Roman offices and some education.

Hopefully next bigger release we get back Agoge and maybe Olympics. That'd help.

Umm, I dont know. I run mostly Normal because grow and the fact that some good traits regarding trade arent got with high taxes.
Still I need low from time to time due to hording and needing the grow when running out of buildings.

[delra]

Just sank a ship with my entire 2nd generation of Roman generals. 10 dudes, not even one of them with two positive character traits. Geez. :-D

[Jervaj]

Yeah, that happened to me. You start full of 3/3 but al their sons are sharp at best xD

[QuintusSertorius]

There is definitely something funny going on in the inheritance of traits. While it's random, I think the chances of inheriting a similar trait to the father should be stronger. As it stands, it's a little too random, which seems to skew negative. Sharp and Charismatic are more important than Vigorous; as noted Langorous often goes well with governor-ship, since you don't end up with a bored FM.

[delra]

That's the pain with Rome, not only do you get a bunch of lazy douchebag retards every generation, you have to micromanage them to get proper education, then to get at least some of True Roman trait points, and then finally 60 turns later when they are ready to get to work, you must travel them back and forth between Rome and the cities they fail to govern. Roman cities are 90% of time without governors because of all of this. Especially cities that are too far away and it's too much bother to ferry FMs back and forth.

Meanwhile KH just roll with attuned SCV governors everywhere and none of the above nonsense. Tell me more about how "Teutonic" family tree is worse in gameplay. :-D

[Jervaj]

It is when at turn 60-80 you have 3-4 FM xD

Also, in a lot of factions I find a lot more difficult to have FM with good influence. Rome seems the best at this, it comes with a cost though, but its not only due to offices but that they seem to have much more trait specific for their factions os that gives them more option to have extra influence.
Some are also unique and bad though.

[delra]

Adoption sometimes gets broken, as if the game lost count between your FMs and settlements (which it should generally try to keep at roughly around 4 FMs / 5 cities). Just use captains to attack rebel stacks and you'll get 100% chance to adopt him when he wins. That helps to replenish the ranks.

Mechanically speaking, each turn the game creates a character that has potential to be adopted into your faction. It sets his traits and stats. Then it either offers him as a husband, for direct adoption, or for recruitment if a captain wins battle. If you have no wives available and weren't offered adoption, just use the captain route to grab the guy. If you don't like the guy you got, just reload and try defeating that rebel stack the next turn, you'll get a new roll on stats.

The same works for regular family trees too. Just sink a boat with all the dumb children and send your captain stacks for rebel hunting. You'll quickly find capable replacements.

I learned the above when trying to get a right nationality guy for my KH archon part of reforms, btw.

[Jervaj]

Umm, I see.

I dont know why but I thought the man of the day thing was casted out in the mod as I tried generating FM like that some time in the past and didnt worked.
I will have to try again.

Anyway, I dont like overdoing it, killing the abd ones and so. It feels like cheating and takes away the appealing of havint to deal with inepts like every big faction had to do.

[delra]

It doesn't work only if the game thinks you already have too many FMs. Which is almost never the case for Teutonic family trees.

[Jervaj]

And what idea has the game of too many FM? Because I love governors everywhere due roleplay reasons.