Diplomacy HOW TO

[Shaba Wangy]

There have been lot of complaints about the diplomacy being broken, and others that it works liek a charm .

For those for whom it works, can you please write an easy to understand how to to keep alliances and stop erratic AI behavior (i.e. Please do not attack/Accept or we will attack). Hopefully this will put an end to all the whynning. (Burebista, I am looking in your direction, as you seem to know most about the game)

Thank you.

[Faelan]

There have been lot of complaints about the diplomacy being broken, and others that it works liek a charm .

For those for whom it works, can you please write an easy to understand how to to keep alliances and stop erratic AI behavior (i.e. Please do not attack/Accept or we will attack). Hopefully this will put an end to all the whynning. (Burebista, I am looking in your direction, as you seem to know most about the game)

Thank you.

+1

This would be most appreciated and helpful!

[Vihuri]

Atleast cease fire is broken. When I am losing enemy is willing to peace out and give me settlements but when I am decisively winning enemy stubbornly rejects even all my settlements for peace. Other than that I am quite ok with diplomacy.

[Lionel-Richie]

I think it all boils down to your relationship with them and your overall reputation. If they aren't your bitter enemies they will be more open to ceasefires. If you are untrustworthy then they will accept alliance less/ceasefires less.

[Soryn Arkayn]

I think it all boils down to your relationship with them and your overall reputation. If they aren't your bitter enemies they will be more open to ceasefires. If you are untrustworthy then they will accept alliance less/ceasefires less.

This statement doesn't make any sense, because how can your relations with a faction that you're at war with be anything other than "Abysmal"?? What the AI needs to do is weigh these factors:

1) Its strength, in terms of military (the size of it's standing army) and income (it's means of training new military units);
2) Its enemy's strength (ME), same as above (although it SHOULD need spies to determine this, more than likely the AI cheats and knows everything about your faction).
3) Whether it has or the enemy has allies involved in the war, and their strengthes.

It should be as simple as that. I know there are other factors to consider, but those three are relatively simple. And regardless how stubborn the AI is supposed to be, it shouldn't be STUPID. If it's down to it's last one or two provinces and only has 500 defenders and the enemy is on its borders with two full stacks, then the AI should drop to its knees and beg for peace. And if peace is offered, it should accept peace unconditionally, and not be so stupid as to demand money or return of lands.

That's how the AI SHOULD function. But it doesn't. We should all as Creative Assembly WHY!?

[Lusted]

Well the game is set up so it's you v the ai, the ai is trying to win as well, and stop you from winning.

[Lionel-Richie]

This statement doesn't make any sense, because how can your relations with a faction that you're at war with be anything other than "Abysmal"??

How does it not make sense? I may be mistaken but I don't think your relations automatically plummet to absymal when you declare war/vice versa.

Do you mean "how does it make logical sense?"

Well, just because two nations are "at war" doesn't mean they absolutely hate and loathe one another. It could just be a political show.

[carl-the-conqueror]

my policy:

dont start any alliances, thus none are broken



try staying neutral, taking one faction at a time, and focus on finance, usually you can buy a ceasefire (with a good enough diplomat). also try using military might, and if catholic, reguarly donate some money to a suitable cause (the pope)

[Hurricane]

I also think it's really difficult to get a cease fire, I bribe the enemy till they are on good relations with me, they aren't allied to any of my enemies but they still won't accept a cease fire

[Miraj]

Play the campaign on medium, its generally makes the diplomacy more reasonable. On Hard or Very Hard campaign the AI is programmed to apply a lot of pressure on you and not give you a break. CA hasn't how to figure out how to actually make the strategy AI smarter with harder difficulties so they just make them unrealistically aggressive and superpowered in H/VH.

[Sulla's Dog]

Anyone know if contributing to the pope regularly pisses off those factions that are not on the best terms with him? :hmmm:

[Lusted]

My tips for diplomacy:

1. Play on medium, ai is more reasonable.

2. Play passively. If another faction attacks you, beat up its invading army, then send a diplomat. 9/10 they will accept a ceasfire once you've beaten their invading army.

3. Pay a regular tribute of about 200 florins a turn to all factions you have an alliance with, this helps keep your relations with them good, so they are less likely to attack. The ai is also getting something out of the alliance.

4. If you are catholic, get the Pope on your side, other factions are more wiling to listen to you after that.

5. Always cancel all agreements with a faction before attacking you, this keep s your reputation as reliable so the ai is less likely to attack you as it sees you as unreasonable.

6. Never leave your cities with a garrison smaller than 6 units.

[scottn72]

Pick your allies carefully, check their reputations, if you have an alliance with a faction with a low reputation (e.g untrustworthy) they are going to be more likely to stab you in the back.

Also the more alliances you have, the greater your power rating, a few alliances can give a supreme power rating when entering negotiations.

I'm not sure of the effect, but won't your diplomats skill level also affect negotiations or am I wrong?

But no matter what you do, your neighours are going to attack at some point as they want to expand too, and if they see a weak point nearby they'll go for it, besides the AI factions are constantly attacking each other then kissing and making up.

[Gaius Julius]

If only the diplomacy could be like the Civ 4 diplomacy...

[scottn72]

Not sure about them reaching America, haven't done that myself yet, but yes the AI factions do try and expand at the expense of other factions.

In my first campaign, M/M, I never destroyed any faction, but there were only 6 left at the end, the AI factions were destroying each other.

[eventhorizen]

Well first of all it depends what Faction you play as.

If you play as the HRE for example you can be sure that if you are not extremelly careful, you will be at war with everyone on your border. Why? Because you are a nice pie that can be easilly sliced up.

If you play as England, Spain, Denmark or Sicily, you have the time, space, resources and the defensive location to be able start manipulating the political landscape of the game, if you are aware of it.

At VH/VH it has to be micromanaged, just like the rest of the game, or it WILL degenerate into a slugfest where it is you against the world, simply because you dont have relations of worth with anyone.

Now buggy diplomacy AI to me would be an ally you have Superb relations with, backstabbing you in a situation they cant possibly gain from.

Otherwise just accept the fact they are going to attack your poorly defended settlement on your border with a huge army when your forces are elsewhere.

The problem is the AI doesnt expect you win with smaller numbers, or meagre forces, but you easilly can. This is why they wont accept a ceasefire even though you demolished their forces. You will probably have to crush them. But if you go butchering and executing their cities, then they probably wont take a ceasefire with you.

So when you are sitting camping your territory, planning where to expand next, this is the exact time to send out your spies and your diplomats and start using some of your wealth you are generating for troops on improving relations.

There is no point trying to pacify the angry, or rely upon the devious. Look for the enemy of your enemy, and start aiding their war efforts. If you can camp your home territory, and fund a nearby faction into declaring war on someone you wish to declare with, then you have success.

The AI may not make much sense as a geo-political simulator, but it does make sense in its own way, as its own set of game mechanics, and these can be EXPLOITED far more effectivlly and with far greater depth than in previous Total War games.


My current campaign is as Sicily. I am currently in complete political control of North Italy, even though I dont own the provinces.

Playing VH/VH, this is how I did it, and this is how my current game is playing out.

Started off by befriending the Pope, and paying him small tributes. I was building up an army to attack the HRE in Bologna when he called a crusade. I took that army on crusade and steam rolled the entire Holy Lands and Egypt, sacking every settlement in the area.

I made early alliances with both Milan and Venice, thinking they would help me get rid of the HRE, but they went to war.

I WATCHED THE WAR. It was going really badly for Venice, and Milan allied the HRE, to my complete horror. I was still allied with both Milan and Venice (a bug?), and the Pope.

I used my wealth from the crusades to fund Milans enemies, and Venice and her allies. Venice did not die, but I could not get Milan to turn attention to the HRE. Milan started to steamroller Western Europe too, so I started paying France a hefty tribute to keep her afloat, all the time still allied with Milan.

The minute my army was finished in Cairo, sacking it, I recalled it home. I asked the Pope to call a Crusade on Milan, having funded all her enemies, and allied with all of Venices allies, and he agreed.

Milan was double the power of any other faction in the game, and rising. Now Milan has three crusader armies of mine at her gates, and after Milan falls, so will her captured Northern Italy provinces, too ME.

I will immediatly attack the HRE after, and continue to fund Milan and HRE's enemies. I have already started supporting Denmark in the North, from the South of Italy, about 10-20 turns before I have any intention of going to war with the HRE.

Once this is done, if all goes to plan, I will have to contend with the mess I have made for myself by funding the other factions and keeping them alive, but now I know how diplomacy works, not to be friends with people, but to achieve MY GOALS.

Bear in mind i have done all of this with just 4 provinces and one army (now 3, but im rich as all hell).

[JocMeister]

I´ll give my 2 cents on the diplomacy so far... Its utterly crap. Slightly better than RTW but still crap. I will give you two examples of this.

First example is as Venice on M/M. War with HRE and Milan from turn 2. I drive Milan from Northen Italy and they are down to one city. They refuse a ceasefire. I concentrate on HRE and take out one town and 2 castles. Bad mistake since that put me on borders with france. The turn after France declare war on me.

At this point I´m starting to get annoyed. I wanted to play a short campaign but still get to the late eras and go to the americas aswell as playing with the gunpowder units. But it seems impossible to play peacefully.

Two turns after France declared war on me Hungary (being the smallest military power) sieges one of my castles. I am the biggest military power in the game. My castle is fully upgraded and fully stacked with crossbowmen and Venetian Heavy infatry. Hungary sieges me with 2 units of feudal knights...
This forces me to attack and take their last castle (offering them a ceasfire and all money I had was deemed very demanding for them...)

Now it happens their last castle was bordering to both russia and the Byzantines. Guess what happens a few turns after that? They both declare war on me.

At this point I just gave up the game.

I restarted a new game a sicily thinking I could slowly build up sitting on my cities and taking rebel settlements. After about 5 turns HRE declare war on me for no reason whatsoever? They blockade one of my ports and then do nothing. I later found out we had a mutual border...suprise suprise...

So I stay on my island until a crusade is called on the portugees. I send a stack there taking the city (valancia I think?) Its a castle on the eastcoast of the Iberian. This gets me borders on spain who is at war with portugal aswell. We form an Alliance and I take touluose? to the north east of valencia from portugal. They are now eliminated.

I marry off all my princesses to spain and pump as much money as I can to Spain (around 1k per turn). But taking touluse was a mistake. This gave me borders to England, Milan and France. Guess what? Yepp you guessed right... They all declare war on me within a few turns. I hold off their armies for a few turns and then Spain decided to backstab me even when they are fighting a loosing war against the Moors in the south...
During this time Milan offers me ceasifire after ceasfire only to break it after 2-5 turns. HRE, France and England refueses peace and will only accept me becoming a vasall and nothing else.

At this time I gave up aswell. I am starting to give up on MTW2. I will give it one more chance when I get home this time trying Easy on campaign difficulty. I just want to be able to play a somewhat peacefull campaign...

To me this is gamebreaking elements. If you cannot have borders without war against another faction what use does diplomacy have then? Is the only way to play a somewhat peacefully game to sit on an island (England) and do nothing? The agressivness of the AI is insane even on medium it seems. I have yet to experience peace with a bordering faction in MTW2 for longer then a few turns. This forces you to expand rapidly even when you don´t want to. Also the completly sucidal behavior that I have seen is annoying. Both in the instance of Hungary aswell as Spain.

I must say though that as long as you don´t have borders to another faction diplomacy seems to work rather well. But the instant you get a mutual border they go into some kind of super agressive mode.

[eventhorizen]

I´ll give my 2 cents on the diplomacy so far... Its utterly crap. Slightly better than RTW but still crap. I will give you two examples of this.

First example is as Venice on M/M. War with HRE and Milan from turn 2. I drive Milan from Northen Italy and they are down to one city. They refuse a ceasefire. I concentrate on HRE and take out one town and 2 castles. Bad mistake since that put me on borders with france. The turn after France declare war on me.

At this point I´m starting to get annoyed. I wanted to play a short campaign but still get to the late eras and go to the americas aswell as playing with the gunpowder units. But it seems impossible to play peacefully.

Two turns after France declared war on me Hungary (being the smallest military power) sieges one of my castles. I am the biggest military power in the game. My castle is fully upgraded and fully stacked with crossbowmen and Venetian Heavy infatry. Hungary sieges me with 2 units of feudal knights...
This forces me to attack and take their last castle (offering them a ceasfire and all money I had was deemed very demanding for them...)

Now it happens their last castle was bordering to both russia and the Byzantines. Guess what happens a few turns after that? They both declare war on me.

At this point I just gave up the game.

I restarted a new game a sicily thinking I could slowly build up sitting on my cities and taking rebel settlements. After about 5 turns HRE declare war on me for no reason whatsoever? They blockade one of my ports and then do nothing. I later found out we had a mutual border...suprise suprise...

Lol, quitting because you got owned by the computer in a total war game.

Next campaign, if you are up for a FIGHT that is, dont take provinces that border an enemy that is likely to attack.

Infact, if you were clever about it, you would start funding that faction, then ask them to declare war, offering them a city you had just taken.

Then, when you are nearing the annihilation of your foe, surround your allies armies and butcher them, then sack his capital.

Everything about Total War is, unsurprisingly, tilted entireally in the direction of warfare. Every factions goal is to expand and conquer.

Diplomacy in Total War isnt about carving an slice of peaceful tranquility in an ocean of blood, but about manipulating the few diplomacy options you have towards your own goals.

The AI will attack you if it thinks it has a chance, just like you will leave minimal garrisons if you think you have a chance of succesfully defending, making for a constant seige and counter border scenario.

If you dont want to fight them, you have to find a way of getting rid of his troops from your enticing city without fighting, and if you think a ceasefire will do that, you are wrong.

So fund his enemies. Get your neighbour pulled into a grinding war you are assisting with, then ally with him and offer him mutual protection.

You will only ally with him if you need his help right? If you thought you could conquer him, you would, right?

Ditto. Make him need your help. Stop splashing out on full stacks and a kings stables, royal barracks, and catapult maker in every castle. Tighten your belt, and start manipulating the game.

[Mutonizer]

Well, personal experience from yesterday...

10 turns in VH/VH campaign as Frenchies, I'm at war with HRE quite heavily and they just keep sending stacks of crappy troops. I'm giving tribute to Milan, Spain , Portugal and Danmark to keep them happy so that I can focus on HRE for a bit.
After a couple of successful defences and finally wiping out the English from Caen, Danmark is attacked by HRE and lose Bruge.

20 turns in, my best diplomat comes to Danmark and we get into an alliance after I agree to give them Bruge (which I had just taken back).

Me and Danmark go at it for quite a bit on HRE (never could actually negotiate military access though) but the Germans are still going strong. Suddenly, on turn 45-50, completely out of the blue while my relations with Danmark are Good, they turn on me and try to take Metz and Caen WHILE still losing quite heavily from HRE.

It was SO stupid a move that I just stopped there (after a bugged "let's all go to the ladders" siege which also pissed me off nicely) and I'm now going back to Medium/VH where I can actually get decent alliances.

I mean, we've been allies for quite a bit, I have good reputation, always offered tribute and we shared map information a lot. I GAVE them Bruge after retaking it from HRE. They always refused military access (which was totally stupid on their part because it prevented me from actually helping them when sieged since you lose reputation as soon as you step foot into another's terrirtory, even allied with them) and completely out of nowhere, they attack me...

And for the record, they didn't attack empty cities since my ONLY front was the Northeastern one and I had all my troops around there somewhere, completely wasting down their siegeing army.

The fact that all other factions already get tons and tons of money in VH while not really making any clever use of it already buggered me but this really showed that the AI doesn't seem to have ANY long term goals whatsoever, which is annoying on a 400+ years campaign...

[DavidtheDuke]

It's weird. In a campaign in Venice I did have that diplomatic problem where they would never accept a ceasefire regardless of what I offered. Oddly enough with my campaign as Scotland I allied with France to destroy England and ovre time I did so. Also when I asked for military access they allowed it AS LONG AS I attacked England. I found that a fair and pretty smart deal actually, totally didn't expect that response.