Battle Mechanic ideas.

[Petellius]

So recently as I'm sure you know I've been pushing the boundaries of what I can do with the mechanics. I'd like to get feedback from my ideas and hear some of yours.

Thanks.

[tikijoetots37]

Just a suggestion: It would cool if you could increase the shock wave values in the projectile table for pilums. This creates a staggering effect that simulates what the pilum was used for historically, to break up formations. If I remember reading correctly, it also rendered shields useless due to the fact that the barb bent and the user of the shield could not get it out. I think it would be a great way to depict this in game. The staggering effect might be a good way to simulate the slow down of units having to deal with a heavy object stuck through their shield. Too bad it's not possible to have units drop equipment.

[Petellius]

Also I've actually been trying to decrease line of sight and make battlefields longer so make scouting useful and ambushes possible. only problems are it could make early battles boring and also reduce AI capabilities.

[Petellius]

I have experimented with this before and would be happy doing this as a sub mod. The only problem with this is any shock wave makes the men go flying and is a little OTT for Javelins.

[ABH2]

Just a suggestion: It would cool if you could increase the shock wave values in the projectile table for pilums. This creates a staggering effect that simulates what the pilum was used for historically, to break up formations. If I remember reading correctly, it also rendered shields useless due to the fact that the barb bent and the user of the shield could not get it out. I think it would be a great way to depict this in game. The staggering effect might be a good way to simulate the slow down of units having to deal with a heavy object stuck through their shield. Too bad it's not possible to have units drop equipment.

To add to this subject a bit, we had a feature to do this, but removed it because it caused CTD's, as well.

Some of our issues with stability stemmed from adding quite a number of new mechanics to battles. Some work and some don't.

[J1N6666]

Since u guys are trying out different things, here's some suggestions


Different roles of missile infantry

Archers = Jack of all trades and utility
(Suppression / Slow mechanic) - Arrows were easily blocked due to how easily you could see them. More than likely people would be prepared to block a volley by raising shields. However, typically, formations would stop and get ready before hand causing a small delay in any other action. (But not Calvary)
(Bonus damage vs light troops) - Think of all the things you could modify on an arrow to make it more lethal / painful on open flesh. Barbing the arrowhead, hooking it, poisoning it, flaming it... the list could go on and on about what people used back in the day. Perhaps these options should be avaiable to more elite units per say

Slingers = DPS Dealers
(Consistent damage) - Unlike arrows, its really hard for anyone to spot a small lead / rock flying at the speed of a baseball pitch. Slingers should do constant damage due to the unpredictability of a missile hitting someone in the face. Maybe it should always penetrate 1/2 of a shield value, who knows, may need some testing.
(High Range on Elite Slingers) - I remember reading somewhere that back in this time period, a good slinger could hurl further than their bow and arrow counterparts, correct me if im wrong, but I think having more range on Elite slingers would be adding more to diversity

Javelin men = Burst Dealers
(Burst) - Should a lot of armor but it shouldn't ignore shield strength. Mostly because a spear into ur armor is probably going to dent it enough to crush a few ribs. This will make flank attacks extremely deadly so maybe something to counter balance it.
(Good Melee stats) - probably stats 3/4 of a Hastati unit, peltasts units in particular due to historical references where they even managed to beat hoplite formations on occasion

Roman Pila = Should probably mess with shield strength of a unit after all a shield hit with it would be heavy as or near useless.


Secondary Other stuffs:

Short swords = more stabby less slashing
Long swords = more slashing less stabby
Ax = REMOVE STABBING
2 Hander weapons = current animations are horrible
Hoplites = perhaps introduce a overhead spear pokey animation, along with 2ndary weapons... (Like the Xilpos swords from movie 300 lol)

Bezerkers needs 2 handed CLAYMORE!! or something along the lines of NOT HAVING A SHIELD... same with the naked fans boys but without the claymore

[ipwnu678]

i like the system above, it makes sense.

This video may help too:

https://youtu.be/7-cS_ptYF9I

[Petellius]

Most of the stuff you just mentioned was already in place, unfortunately we had to remove them recently due to CTDs

[J1N6666]

Awwww that's quite a shame... Is there any chance of getting it working in the final release?

[Petellius]

Should be able to

[J1N6666]

Wow, that would be so awesome if you guys could do it!

Also, here's another suggestion for battles:

Line of Sight

In the current vanilla version of the game, scouting is pretty unimportant. I would like to see the line of sight mechanic expanded a little bit more when weather conditions are enforced. Fighting however, should definitely lower line of sight of that unit.
For example in vanilla, even with heavy rain or heavy fog, it is still relatively easy to spot everything the enemy has on the map. I would like visibility to be reduced dramatically for every unit that isn't utility / scouting. That way, it would punish people that only try to build their army purely on stats alone. (EX: Hannibal's army vs Romans)
This could be a way to nerf those elite only armies by limiting their line of sight in circumstantial engagements. Obviously, if they have an elite army it should be frightening, but at least it should have a weakness that could be exploited in that regard. Perhaps this would be a indirect nerf to steam rolling the AI.

Anything heavy armor including Calvary should have an extremely low line of sight unless standing still. Any other action (especially combat) would lower it due to the sound of armor clanking and helmets reducing sight.

I really like this Line of Sight mechanic that CA introduced. I just think that they didn't go far enough with it. Anyways, what do you guys think?

[Petellius]

Wow, that would be so awesome if you guys could do it!

Also, here's another suggestion for battles:

Line of Sight

In the current vanilla version of the game, scouting is pretty unimportant. I would like to see the line of sight mechanic expanded a little bit more when weather conditions are enforced. Fighting however, should definitely lower line of sight of that unit.
For example in vanilla, even with heavy rain or heavy fog, it is still relatively easy to spot everything the enemy has on the map. I would like visibility to be reduced dramatically for every unit that isn't utility / scouting. That way, it would punish people that only try to build their army purely on stats alone. (EX: Hannibal's army vs Romans)
This could be a way to nerf those elite only armies by limiting their line of sight in circumstantial engagements. Obviously, if they have an elite army it should be frightening, but at least it should have a weakness that could be exploited in that regard. Perhaps this would be a indirect nerf to steam rolling the AI.

Anything heavy armor including Calvary should have an extremely low line of sight unless standing still. Any other action (especially combat) would lower it due to the sound of armor clanking and helmets reducing sight.

I really like this Line of Sight mechanic that CA introduced. I just think that they didn't go far enough with it. Anyways, what do you guys think?

Would love to, but if you mess with line of sight it often ruins the BAI, which is why its best to just remove line of sight altogether. I have, however been trying to add it in, in a way that leaves the BAI able. All attempts have failed for some reason beyond my comprehension so far :/. The lowered spotting in combat and running and such is a good idea actually, never thought of that. I always wanted to be able to hide troops behind other troops but I dont think I can. Also the line of sight mechanics are quite odd so we'll see.

Edit: if I manage to achieve this it will likely be after the initial release.

[J1N6666]

Would love to, but if you mess with line of sight it often ruins the BAI, which is why its best to just remove line of sight altogether. I have, however been trying to add it in, in a way that leaves the BAI able. All attempts have failed for some reason beyond my comprehension so far :/. The lowered spotting in combat and running and such is a good idea actually, never thought of that. I always wanted to be able to hide troops behind other troops but I dont think I can. Also the line of sight mechanics are quite odd so we'll see.

Edit: if I manage to achieve this it will likely be after the initial release.

Ahhh, I can see the problem it would cause if it suddenly revert it to the legendary ROME 2 release day AI. Perhaps you could let the AI maphack a little due to offset the fact that they have little to no intelligence... ...on second thought maybe not. Either way, I have confidence in this mod, so just go at your own pace.

Also, have you guys considered a test environment / separate version specifically to test features and such? Kind of like a beta to introduce prototype mechanics to hone or improve upon. I'm sure there's a lot of people (uhhhh me) that are willing to try out crazy things and report findings as such.

Anyways, great job on the mod. I'm already liking the design direction this mod is going so I don't fear it having a Rome 2 release. If I have any new ideas or such, I'll flood back into this (maybe other) threads and trash talk everyone! =D

[Petellius]

Well I often use a test pack but normally it works or it doesn't. So not much point.

On map hacking AI, could work

[Petellius]

So a kind of fix to that idea... tried restricting a units spotting distance when near or in combat, as well as firing missiles. To show the confusion of battles. Also if you add the dust mod that we made for Rome 2 it makes even more sense as dust obscures units

[J1N6666]

So a kind of fix to that idea... tried restricting a units spotting distance when near or in combat, as well as firing missiles. To show the confusion of battles. Also if you add the dust mod that we made for Rome 2 it makes even more sense as dust obscures units

Whoa, I haven't even thought of using a dust mod visual to cover up the fact of reducing vision. That's a really great idea.

Adding onto it, vision in infantry formations could also be redone a bit.

Examples would be:
Testudo formation would reduce general visibility outright until they hit something or something touches them.
Phalanxes, shield walls and other formations with an emphasis on forward bracing or momentum should have their vision focused toward the direction they are facing. (Thinking maybe a 40-45 degree cone or something like that)
Infantry wedge im not so sure about...

Anyways, I thought this would be cool.
Since there usually isn't any penalties to using formations over no formations, there's almost always no thinking involved when deciding weather or not to press something like ATTACKING TESTUDO, or HOPLITE PHALANX. I was thinking introduction of tunnel vision as a weakness would be a good way to start.
What do you think?

[Petellius]

unfortunately it doesnt work. So...

[J1N6666]

Awww... That's quite a shame D:

But hey, you got the LOS reduction in combat + the implementation of a dust mod. If anything, I would say that's really good already.

Keep up the good work!

[Petellius]

I'm saying the los reduction in General doesn't work. The dust mod however, works perfectly. Look up enhanced particles on the Rome 2 workshop

[J1N6666]

I'm saying the los reduction in General doesn't work. The dust mod however, works perfectly. Look up enhanced particles on the Rome 2 workshop

The dust mod working is great.

But the LOS not working is a massive .