I really think MTW was better. A lot better.

[XantheKnight]

I have been dying to get my hands on M2:TW for months now. MTW is one of my favourite games.

I've been playing the game now nonstop for a couple of days, and I'm sorry to say that I really didn't enjoy it much at all. I will be going back to the original MTW, which has vastly better gameplay.

All of the things I liked about MTW have been stripped from M2:TW completely. Proper primogeniture was important to me (!), and it doesn't work properly in M2:TW at all. I keep ending up with random guys as my faction heir, where the rightful heir is ignored. Huh? Secondly, what's with all the adoptions? Adoptions were a Roman thing, not an English/French whatever thing. So why my English faction heir at age 21 is spammed with candidates for adoption (most of which are older than him anyway) is beyond me. Adoption simply wasn't practiced amongst the English monarchy, I'm sorry.

Inquisitors. Err, I admit that my master's degree is in Roman, not Medieval history, however I thought that started a heck of a lot later than 1080 AD. Like, here I'm thinking 1400s. So why my generals and even my king have been mercilessly executed by inquisitors, which are also spamming all my provinces, well, I really have no clue.

I dunno who thought Inquisitors was a fun addition to gameplay.

And look, I know this is lame, but one of my favourite aspects of MTW was the whole bestowal of titles and lands upon my favourite guys. I loved recruiting random generals from the gutter and raising them to be Dukes of Normandy, marrying them off to my daughters and conquering gloriously with them.

So why did they do away with titles etc. in M2:TW? That was such a good part of the original game. Damn, I'm disappointed with that. I was even hoping that M2:TW would go a step further towards authenticity and allow you to bestow titles upon family members (MTW didn't let you do that).

I also am baffled as to why my king's second son and later sons are not referred to as Princes, and why only my king's immediate daughters are princesses. And why the heck 95% of the time my princess whom I am attempting to marry off ends up "disgraced", as if virginity and chastity weren't obviously some of the most important traits in a medieval noble woman... yet in this new game they have them all running around like sluts or something. I just don't get it.

Same ole problems with diplomacy and getting backstabbed every two seconds... I don't see why I can't manage my cities without a governor, and why on earth the programmers thought you can't have a city AND a castle...?! Err, hello?

Look, I realize that some authenticity needs to be sacrificed in a game for good gameplay. But this isn't it.

I loved Rome: Total War. The format worked, the faction stuff was pretty authentic (I loved the adoption, the choose faction heir, etc.) and that really contributed to the good gameplay. If I play a game about Medieval kings and their families and conquering provinces, damn dude, I want proper primogeniture settings, I want proper Princes and Princesses and all the trappings thereof, and I darn well want to be able to make Prince Alselm the Chivalrious the Duke of Normandy and Lord Chamberlain if I damn well feel like it.

I'm the king, after all, right?

And I know it's been said before, but getting your piety 7 king burned by an inquisitor is just annoying.

My verdict on this game is that really, it's just RTW again, with different city names and different unit names. Other than that, I don't see anything really Medieval about it. Sorry. A big, fat, hairy disappointment.

Looking forward to some good mods. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE someone mod the primogeniture, so that the correct character inherits the throne. If you want me to do research for you to make it more historically accurate, I'm just about nerdy enough to do it. (Many European nations had their own system of inheritance when it comes to the crown, so, not everyone would be the same).

[napoleonic]

there is something wrong with you, there is no way MTW was/is better than M2TW, they're in totally different level, maybe you just felt something nostalgic.

for me, the comparation of both games is like :

1. archers vs modern gun
2. pre jet engine planes vs modern planes
3. Ford Model T vs modern car

etc.

[Cadmium77]

Enh...bah..

[k_161]

Enh...bah..

My thoughts exactly.but i do argee that ME2 is Rome with a facel left and i have no problem with that because Rome was a great game and i had an amazing time playing it.i did try ME1 and it wasn't that great

[Cain The Kohan]

1. archers vs modern gun
etc.

Well at least in MTW archers fired back, while in mtw2 i have noticed they rather lose life than arrows. (happened at times)
And battle map AI was waaaaaay better, meh whole tempo of playing was better.

[z2ei]

Er..you've always been able to manage cities without a governor. Just turn that option on when starting a campaign.

I think you can do it from the in-game's Game Options menu as well.

[Lee1026]

I realize I have the reputation around here of being a conspiracy freak but I really am suspicious of this sudden intense campaign of slander against this excellent game just now in the first week of it coming out just when people are forming their initial experience of it and all important word of mouth and reputation begin to take effect upon the game's sales.

Well, if you really think that his criticism are false, then would it kill you to point out exactly what is false?

[Cadmium77]

Well, if you really think that his criticism are false, then would it kill you to point out exactly what is false?

Well for one thing in MTW the engine used (the same one as STW), still didn't handle itself very well around cliffs and steep slopes. Any of you remember those units that would get strung out around cliffs like little lines of marching ants?

M2 TW sure doesn't do that.

This is an excellent game.

[Cain The Kohan]

M2 TW sure doesn't do that.

Have you defended on very hilly map? because i saw them do things like that.

[lawngnome]

Everything about M2TW is better besides a few minor things like titles. Remember the MTW pope? Yeah, a joke. This time around he makes sense. You build churches/priests he likes you and excommunicates your enemies... plus you have a concrete timer on when not to attack someone... no more mystery excommmunications.

Castles/Cities is to add strategic depth... I think you're the only one that doesn't like the concept.

You can manage cities without a governor. There is an option before you start your campaign to disable that feature, and then on top of that in your city's information window you can uncheck the 'automanage production/recruitment' boxes.

Adoption is the game's kind way of giving back those guys that got burned at the stake. So yeah, inquisitors are a little over the top at the moment, but it's not game-breaking.

The whole trade system? 10x better than MTW.

More factions... more unique units for factions (remember how England and France were distinguished by about 2 units?)... sieges are actually fun even with the bugs... remember MTW sieges? I just auto-resolved them all.

[Hansa]

M2TW is better, but for its time, MTW was a far, far better game. M2TW, doesn't come close; eras, dismounting cavalry, historical characters, titles, reemerging factions, etc, etc, etc. Can not emphasize the era thingie enough. Gave the game an extra dimension this game lacks. The more I play M2TW, the more disappointed I get. Its just RTW with a facelift, thank God it will be easily moddable.

[dearmad]

M2TW is better, but for its time, MTW was a far, far better game. M2TW, doesn't come close; eras, dismounting cavalry, historical characters, titles, reemerging factions, etc, etc, etc. Can not emphasize the era thingie enough. Gave the game an extra dimension this game lacks. The more I play M2TW, the more disappointed I get. Its just RTW with a facelift, thank God it will be easily moddable.

you forgot:
exploding early cannons. weather effects actually made a difference, rebellions.

About the only downside was Jedi Generals.

[Lee1026]

Oh yeah, you guys forgot that once you are ahead in the game, diplomancy is basically worthless as every one attacks every chance they get and never accept peace offers. (and when they do, they back stab you the first chance they get). And you are more or less guaranteed to have 1 cross with the pope.
Well, there are SOME (but not much) good things in M2TW. There is stuff like much better rebellion handling. (You can actually butcher entire towns as punishment now)

[jegui]

Oh yeah, you guys forgot that once you are ahead in the game, diplomancy is basically worthless as every one attacks every chance they get and never accept peace offers. (and when they do, they back stab you the first chance they get). And you are more or less guaranteed to have 1 cross with the pope.

gosh... sometimes I think people in this forum are playing a different game to the one I've been playing for the past week or so I have only 45 turns left in my current campaign and diplomacy is working spot on I have an alliance with pope standing for more than 150 years and my faction has the most crosses in the game... I am at war with only with one catholic faction (milanese) who were excommunicated at one point and no other christian faiths have ganged and engaged my fation... I have alliances with most of them which have endured since the beginning of the campaign (100+ years) and I managed to buy off several regions from my allies without haven an all-out war declared The new world is my current adventure and i have enought armies and money to keep fighting mongols/timidius whilst deterring christian factions from invading my lands

So I still don't understand the non-sense of people saying that all AI factions are fighting u that the pope is excomunicating u and that the AI is broken and the game is unplayable

M2TW in overall is better than MTW but yes there are some features I liked in MTW which are missing here... However the feel of M2TW is exactly the same as in MTW and there are no game breakers

[Tullaris]

gosh... sometimes I think people in this forum are playing a different game to the one I've been playing for the past week or so I have only 45 turns left in my current campaign and diplomacy is working spot on I have an alliance with pope standing for more than 150 years and my faction has the most crosses in the game... I am at war with only with one catholic faction (milanese) who were excommunicated at one point and no other christian faiths have ganged and engaged my fation... I have alliances with most of them which have endured since the beginning of the campaign (100+ years) and I managed to buy off several regions from my allies without haven an all-out war declared The new world is my current adventure and i have enought armies and money to keep fighting mongols/timidius whilst deterring christian factions from invading my lands

So I still don't understand the non-sense of people saying that all AI factions are fighting u that the pope is excomunicating u and that the AI is broken and the game is unplayable

M2TW in overall is better than MTW but yes there are some features I liked in MTW which are missing here... However the feel of M2TW is exactly the same as in MTW and there are no game breakers

Fanboy. I've read the same post in another thread, just because you can't grasp the essence of a good AI doesn't mean everybody else is satisfied with it. I'm sure if you play as sicily you won't have this problem. The pope is a passive power and will never invade anyone.
Go play HRE, France or any other Central power. When you get bigger then 10 provinces, everybody who BORDERS you attacks you, and they won't stop it before they are destroyed.

[Hodor]

M2TW is better, but for its time, MTW was a far, far better game. M2TW, doesn't come close; eras, dismounting cavalry, historical characters, titles, reemerging factions, etc, etc, etc. Can not emphasize the era thingie enough. Gave the game an extra dimension this game lacks. The more I play M2TW, the more disappointed I get. Its just RTW with a facelift, thank God it will be easily moddable.

Yeah, dismounting cavalry would actually have been a useful feature this time around (since there are actually walls where cavalry can't move), as opposed to MTW1 were it seemed kind of pointless (Okay, it might have been occasionally useful with Catholic nations, but for Muslims, there was little reason to dismount a full unit of heavy Ghulam cavalry for less than half a unit of Saracen spearmen).

The re-emergent factions were more of a problem than a feature though. The Byzantines reappearing with 15,000 men (among them thousands of elite Varangians and cataphracts) right in the middle of the Ottoman empire was simply out of wack.

[Lee1026]

Still, if they were going to re-release rome with a face left, then they should not have mislead us about how new the game is.

Ah well, can't expect too much out of man kind.

[k_161]

I think it was pretty obvious that it was not a new game from the first time i saw the campgin map and gameplay videos.

[Lee1026]

Well, they did claim to have perfected the AI. And to have working diplomacy. And to have castle sieges that actually made sense. (i.e. where men actually had to assult the main keep)

[k_161]

nice so we can sue them for false advertising xD.well if the pacth doesn't do those things then their nothing but a bunch of worthless liars imo.