CA said only 4 factions because they would develope them to perfection but it was not what the tralier showed!

[paradamed]

Ok, what did you guys think of the trailer taking in consideration CA's speech of having only 4 factions because they would be like super unique?

The trailer did not impress me at all. Not enough variation in units. The scale of the battle could be bigger. Empire units lacked cohesion. I did not see all the tiny details I was expectin like drummers and banner carriers which are essential to tabletop warhammer? I was expecting the Gryphon Riders to be more flamboyant and the list goes on and on.

I hope this is just a taste of what is to come cause with only 4 factions like this the game will pretty much just be a shadow of what it could have been.

[shawn858]

They never said there was only going to be 4 factions, they said there would be 4 RACES.

This is an early WIP, it clearly states that before the trailer, so idk if you just didn't read it or you just skipped past it, but it's there.

I'm honestly not sure what you were expecting. This was an in-engine trailer, and it is not indicative of the final product in the slightest.



Seems like a lot of your disappointment can be remedied by just paying attention. For example, with the empire, you only start off as the reikland i'm pretty sure, and then have to unite the rest of the human kingdoms together and then face the external threats like chaos, greenskins, and the undead.

[paradamed]

Ok, but the depth of detail is not big. The demigryph mounts all clones. The riders, not flamboyant enough. The giants, all clones, The trolls, all clones. The horrible 2d sprite render of one of the steam tanks at the distance is laughable. Empire had like 2 different infantry units, the halberdiers and the 2h swordsman. Orcs look all the same at the distance with very few minor differences when close up. We are not too far from a release, are we? So this worries me.

Ok, Karl Franz looks great, the gryph and the wyvern look great but...

But in the end we have 2 different infantry units, a wizard, the demigryph knights, the hellblaster and the steam tank and Karl franz on the Empire side.

On the Orc side we have the wyvern, clone trolls, clone giants and clone orc infantry.

Im not falling into the hype. Im trying to have a critical approach of the trailer and as I said before, the material showed is far from a well developed roster and the game release is not far.

[Jokern]

I agree that there is a lack of variety among the Empire units. Standard bearers, musicians, more flamboyant and colorful uniforms with variations of armor pieces, definitely need more long beards. Comparing the halberdiers in the trailer with GW's miniatures, I much prefer the miniatures due to their individual quality in looks.

Then again, we're still at least half a year away from release, so I hope that the lack of variety will be fixed the coming months. As for the scale of the battle, I thought it was hard to tell how big the battle was with how the trailer was shot. And we'll see even more of it on July 30th, then we'll get a lot more details I suspect.

The problem I see with what CA has promised with TW:WH is that, while the variation between units will be much greater, the variation within units will go down due to how resources are distributed. This is only a speculation on my part, but the little we've seen indicates this in my opinion. If you think it's good or not that two different units actually look different over more variety within one unit can be discussed in more detail ater.

These are also the normal things that have always been in Total War games that we have to deal with. The bigger the units are, the more you'll notice the clone army. People want larger battles, but they also want more variety among individual soldiers. I think that these two are working against each other in a way. More variations among individual soldiers would mean more variety when it comes to models and textures, bu if I'm not mistaken rendering so many different soldiers on a massive scale of tens of thousands does strain the hardware, right? And again, if we have a unit of halberdiers containing 200 men, how many variants of legs, heads, torsos, etc, is necessary to fool our eyes into thinking there's not a clone army?

It also seems to me that CA this time want us to really see the difference between two different units. Halberdiers do not look the same as Greatswordsmen, as we've seen. Then we get to the problem with units using different pools for models and textures. If the two units used the same pool we'd probably have more variations among soldiers, but now the Greatswordmen and the Halberdiers would be closer to each other in looks. The distinction between units is lost.

Lastly, we get to the uniformity in colors. CA has always used this and from a gameplay perspective it makes sense to be ae to tell the difference between armies and units clashing. But as has been pointed out several times, we get clone armies. Some like the uniformity, others don't. I think it serves a purpose but I don't know if I'd be unhally with making the armies less uniform.

These are all my personal opinions and speculations. If anyone is more knowledgeable in this matter please correct me.

[LordInvictus]

This was just a trailer so they didn't show off all the units. From press articles, we still have yet to see such units in action as the Luminark of Hysh, hand gunners, knights, the many forms of Empire artillery (we only saw the Hellblaster), Arachnarok spiders, wolf riders, boar riders, goblin shamans, doom diver catapults, etc. Just wait for July 30...

In regards to clone armies, the monstrous units will probably be more varied since the focus is on their implementation, not their diversity. The artists have plenty of time to create more differentiation once the base model has been finished.

[Evan MF]

This is an early WIP, it clearly states that before the trailer, so idk if you just didn't read it or you just skipped past it, but it's there.

I'm honestly not sure what you were expecting. This was an in-engine trailer, and it is not indicative of the final product in the slightest.

I completely agree with you that this trailer is not indicative of the final product, but it gives me no reason to be optimistic because in recent years CA's final product is always a lot worse than as portrayed in it's cinematic engine trailers.

[Orkfaeller]

These are also the normal things that have always been in Total War games that we have to deal with. The bigger the units are, the more you'll notice the clone army. People want larger battles, but they also want more variety among individual soldiers. I think that these two are working against each other in a way. More variations among individual soldiers would mean more variety when it comes to models and textures, bu if I'm not mistaken rendering so many different soldiers on a massive scale of tens of thousands does strain the hardware, right? And again, if we have a unit of halberdiers containing 200 men, how many variants of legs, heads, torsos, etc, is necessary to fool our eyes into thinking there's not a clone army?

Yah, I think CA tried to go all out with unit variation in RII, and that caused not so great performance.
Now it seems they try to stick to three or four heads, bodies and weapons at most per unit type.

I did expect less variation in comparison to rome, but it is a bit disapointing to see that GW's actual plastic models offer two or even three times more alternate parts.
Biggest let down ( again ) was the Empire infantry. I was hopeing seeing them actually in motion would make up for the lack of alternate bodyparts but they just looked insanely dull; and the lack of champions, standard bearers and musicians didn't exactly help.

I still don't understand why CA decided to differentiate their designs from GW's so much.
Especially since they stayed so ing loyal to it with the DemiGryph Knights for example. Those are identical to the Tabletop models.

__
Edit

What I had hoped for:

[DavidtheDuke]

Yah, I think CA tried to go all out with unit variation in RII, and that caused not so great performance.
Now it seems they try to stick to three or four heads, bodies and weapons at most per unit type.

I did expect less variation in comparison to rome, but it is a bit disapointing to see that GW's actual plastic models offer two or even three times more alternate parts.
Biggest let down ( again ) was the Empire infantry. I was hopeing seeing them actually in motion would make up for the lack of alternate bodyparts but they just looked insanely dull; and the lack of champions, standard bearers and musicians didn't exactly help.

I still don't understand why CA decided to differentiate their designs from GW's so much.
Especially since they stayed so ing loyal to it with the DemiGryph Knights for example. Those are identical to the Tabletop models.

Agree with this unit non-variatian. The halberdier line looked pretty dull franky, just a static sea of red with. I saw them moving about and stuff, but officers etc are a staple of WHFB.

[swdgame]

Settle down. There are more than half a year left. In case you don't know, all the good looking details are done at the last phase of development.

[Collateral_dmg]

This trailer is supposed to show the engine. Not the fancy graphics or details. Can't you people understand that ????????????????????????????????? Have you even read what the devs said http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...ay-quot-mean.? ???????

I seriously doubt your reading skills, or your interest in general. You only think about the things you want and you want them NOW, 'OR ELSE I'M GONNA CRY AND WHINE'.

Seriously people, calm your down a bit, and stop judging the books by their covers. We didn't even see the campaign, the units, the rosters, the mechanics, and so much more. I am just bored from the constant complaining of the people that seem they don't want to understand anything and only focus on their current needs and wants, as if they are newborn babies.

[joedreck]

This trailer is supposed to show the engine. Not the fancy graphics or details. Can't you people understand that ?????????????????????????????????

I think people know it is in game engine.
But CA should know presentation is everything. Come on See that again. The empire troops looking bad. Some of them don't have helmets. Also they are not looks like warhammer. For a presentation they should prepare better. Surelly after the press Who saw the battle movie was so Fanatic happy we wanted also fireworks.

[Orkfaeller]

This trailer is supposed to show the engine. Not the fancy graphics or details. Can't you people understand that ????????????????????????????????? Have you even read what the devs said http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...ay-quot-mean.? ???????

I seriously doubt your reading skills, or your interest in general. You only think about the things you want and you want them NOW, 'OR ELSE I'M GONNA CRY AND WHINE'.

Seriously people, calm your down a bit, and stop judging the books by their covers. We didn't even see the campaign, the units, the rosters, the mechanics, and so much more. I am just bored from the constant complaining of the people that seem they don't want to understand anything and only focus on their current needs and wants, as if they are newborn babies.

I have to question your reading abilities because the point of an in engine trailer is not to show of the engine.
It's ment to give a movie-esque experience while looking like the game. Custom animations, fancy camera angles with film like edits and cuts, lots of particle effects etcetc
An in engine trailer is ment to give you a feel for the universe and the scale and theme of the battles.
It has little to enough to do.

THIS is an engine trailer ment to show of the engine.
If you seriously expect the game to look much different than this then I dont know what to tell you. Its all ingame assets.

"‘In-engine Cinematic’
The video uses Development in Progress in-game assets and code as a basis for a video shot with cinematic camera techniques to create movie-like footage. This is representative of the themes and general look and feel of the game, but it is not the direct in-game experience you will get when you are physically playing the final game."

[BalrogOfMorgoth]

It's still WIP, but damn, Orc's shields were so poor!

[Orkfaeller]

It's still WIP, but damn, Orc's shields were so poor!

Yeah, noticed aswell :T

I really hope the game is atleast somewhat moddable; I feel like my first simple mod would be re-skinning the Orcs a bit to make them more colourfull.

They look too brown in my taste.
Less like Green Skins right now and more like brownish-mud-olive skins and their gear looks just so very brown aswell. Though it might be the lighting on that map. Gotta wait for more screenshots.

[Vardeus]

If we complain now that the game is in alpha, it's too early. If we complain when beta rolls out, it's too late because the design phase has been closed down. We may as well call out what we dislike from whatever info & media CA has revealed in a casual and respectful way, now that there is a slight change CA could rework those things.

Of course the finished product will have banners (even if the banners are not animated, just look at KF helmet plumes they are static). And if that is the case most of us will probably think "oh man that was a missed opportunity", but i'd rather have this than nothing at all. Musicians without proper animations might happen, fully functional ones are unlikely.

And some friendly advice for those offended by complaining: don't browse these forums for 2 months after release date. If you do, heart attack is ensured.

[Orkfaeller]

And some friendly advice for those offended by complaining: don't browse these forums for 2 months after release date. If you do, heart attack is ensured.

HA! I for one are gonna lay low after release. I complain a lot, but mostly about esthetics; after release people are gonna complain about gameplay, and its gonna be a far uglier situation.^^

[Col. Tartleton]

It's just weird how Karl Franz and the Demi Gryphs look identical to the models and the poor bloody infantry only bear a resemblance. I mean they don't even hold up as being made more realistically as Warhammer aesthetics for Empire are historical for the most part sans particulars of iconography.

They need more fop and more grim dark. Where are the feathered hats and puffy sleeves? Where are the skulls of deceased comrades and devotional items hanging from their belts? Why don't they look traumatized?

[illathid]

So reading a bunch of complaints, I think it comes down to people wanting more slash-n-puff sleeves rather than red pajamas for all troops. Granted, lots of the state troop models are of the red pajama variety, but I don't blame people for wanting more slash-n-puff sleeves as they are very cool.

[Orkfaeller]

It's just weird how Karl Franz and the Demi Gryphs look identical to the models and the poor bloody infantry only bear a resemblance.

This confuses me the most. It was one thing if CA simply decided to redesign all GW designs to fit their own esthetic. But its a huge flip-flop.

One half is an almost perfect recreation of what they look like in Tabletop or official art.
The other half is so far removed that they are barely recogniseable. And I can't come up with an explanation.

I mean, some times changes have to be made, I understand that. I remember an interview with the guys behind Mark of Chaos ( cinematic trailer ); and they were talking about how they had to make some changes to chaos warrior armour, because the design was never ment to actually allow you to swing your arms for example, being a static plastic figurine. So for the sake of animation they had to make changes to the shoulder plates, and the leg armour and so on.

But thats obviously not the case here.

Did they outsource some of the 3D art?
Like, did they hire like a non western studio to do half of the models because they didn't have enough guys available themselves?
And the result are these bipolar designs? I remember, Bioware had to outsource the armour design process to studios in India and Taiwan for SWTOR and as a result they were stuck with a ton of designs that looked nothing like StarWars.



After people gave them a lot of flack, they changed the process and relied on their inhouse art team for future designs.
Did the same happen here? Are all the CA guys working on the next historical TotalWar and we're getting designs by some studio that barely knows what Warhammer is? Because I'd expect something more acurate by a bunch of Brits.

Like, I cant come up with a good explanation.

[Falco]

Seriously OP? The game doesn't even have a release date yet...

It's way to early to complain IMO.