things that should be improved about the trailer of karl franz

[panzerschreck]

I am quite pleased with what I saw, but some things should be improved before the final release:

-the uniforms and variety of soldiers for both orcs and Empire soldiers. Orcs don't look fine for me, there are looking clones.
-the animation of the orcs: it looks too much to apes.
_Empire army can't have the same colour and look for all regiments.
-the formation of empire soldiers, we could have expected more cohesion.
-more variety for giants, not only the same model everytime (same for troll).
-there don't seem to be flagbearers and musicians.

An other problem for me : I think CA should take also old looking figures from 1980's/1990's and 2000's, warhammer it's also that: several decades of different figures, I thing the choices that has been made is to take only the last figures from the last five years... (which can explain the clone effect with the plastic figures).

What about your things to improve?

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

Thats because it's a in-engine trailer NOT a in-Game trailer so what you seen now is not how its going to look ingame.

30th of july you will see the first ingame gameplay.

[panzerschreck]

Thats because it's a in-engine trailer NOT a in-Game trailer so what you seen now is not how its going to look ingame.

30 july you will see the first ingame gameplay.

of course, we know that but for the moment empire army is totally red and clonish, even ingame (cf past screenshots) for example.

[paradamed]

I really miss flagbearers and musicians. Cmon CA Flagbearers aree some the olest stuff in the tabletop! Pls dont be cheap here and apply some effort in developing this area more!

[scoicarius]

I agree. I'd like to see much greater variety to all units, including Giants and Trolls, and flag bearers, champions and musicians would greatly add to the flavor. As concerns the animations, I think most are wonderful, with the exception of those of the Orcs running. Watching them advance down the slope just doesn't feel right.

[Orkfaeller]

Thats because it's a in-engine trailer NOT a in-Game trailer so what you seen now is not how its going to look ingame.

30th of july you will see the first ingame gameplay.

Uhm, its not a gameplay trailer but its all done with ingame assets beside some custome animations and fancier particle effects to make it more cinematic.
So yeah, the Imperials and Green Skins are going to look exactly like that in the upcoming trailer.

more variety for giants, not only the same model everytime (same for troll).

I really hope the game is somewhat moddable and theres going to be a community surrounding it.
I'd love to work on some alternate skins for giant sized monsters. Bet you could do some crazy stuff with warpaint on those guys.

[gary]

Ohh... I cannot help but think there are many people going to be disappointed with this latest project from CA. Already the momentum of anticipation is growing and i cannot help but think back how i felt waiting for R2 to be released and then, well we all know what happened.

[Collateral_dmg]

Watching them advance down the slope just doesn't feel right.

It looks silly at best lol. I don't like it either, but the way the charged seemed ok at least (if that is really how they charge though).

[StephanVos]

the empire troops look like a bunch of pansies! Seriously, how could these skinny looking men even withstand one Orc!

[HigoChumbo]

Let's put the stuff on the table now that there is still time for things to change.

Things I believe need to change:

• Orcs look bad. The running animations make them look ridiculous. They don't feel threatening at all, more like cute green teddy bears.
• Big, detailed banners should be in the game.
• Giants need variation. And beards.
• Empire units still look really, really dull. They need more colour variation (not only for different units, but for individual soldiers as well, make them look more like landsknechts). The fluffy-ragged vest still don't look good in most units.
• Get rid of morions for imperial troops.
• The map looks really dated when zoomed out.
• Units don't capture the feeling of Warhammer regiments at all (no sense of variation and individualism, units too spaced, etc.)
• Overall, still too much Total War and too little Warhammer.
• Greatsword are too skinny. They don't feel flamboyant, they don't feel like german, bearded, medieval badasses. Really, the organ gun crew looks better than them. Why not use the fluffy clothing on those for the rest?

Things I believe are spot on:

• Troll, giant and demigryph animations
• The organ gun and the steam tank
• The Orc lord on the wyvern

[Orkfaeller]

Damnit, was about to upload the same screenshot.

I think the artillery gunners, from what I can tell at that resolution, look really good.

And their puffy clothing seems more convincing than the Greatswords'.

Also to note, one of the gunners has a custom head, while the other reuses a Statetroop one.

[Frost-Byte]

snip

1; I sorta agree. The Orcs don't really look nor sound intimidating, but that might just for the sake of the T rating. Honestly I thought the running animations were fine. These are big, disspaportionaly built monsters. Of course they move awkardly...
2; CA might just cop out and add them above the units instead of having a standard bearer, which is close but no cigar. the Units themselves in Machinima's need to visually scream "WE ARE REIKLAND HALBERDIERS" with banners, sergeants, bugels, etc. You outta look at them and not think they're dirty beggars in pajama's. Super agreed.
3; Again, I agree. However I suspect they will get a few more variations, since there are only going to be like 3-4 per army max unless players wanna be cheesing in custom battles or mods.
4; Color variation and giving out more puffy, exaggerated renaissance clothing will do more to make them distinct. More flavor god damnit, MOAR!
5; I had to google morions, I call them conquistador helms. Yeah they need to go, they've been recycling those models since empire (First in empire, upscaled in Shogun 2, now found here). Give out more berets and hat's, especially with feathers.
6; The battle map or glimpse of campaign map? I think both look fine.
7; Alright this is a paradox. If they are close, then it's blobbing. If they are too far apart, "LOL looks like Total war not warhammer". Having there current formations is ok, since they do collide in combat. "Blobbing" (Which is overexaggerated when people talk about this trailer) is only bad when you have a giant mosh pit for a battle, and you can't see nor is there any tactical action besides throwing more units in. The loose greenskin formation looks destinct, and gives them a weakness by being charged by cavalry since the greenskins are likely going to kick ass (along with the dwarven infantry).
8) Agree to Disagree, we have only seen halberdiers and orcs, demi's and 2 heroes really fight. We've yet to see knights, pistoleers and rifleman, more empire artillery, more magic, greenskins shaman (can summon a moon ;0), doom diver goblins, goblins in general, Spider and Wolfs and Boar riders, Greatswords in action, rumored giant spiders manned by goblins. You can't say it isn't warhammer when alot of the really distinct awesome stuff has not been displayed yet, likely because it is still being worked on in progress. This industry has trained us to see WIP footage and assume it's going to be relatively unchanged come launch
9; Eh. I think it looks ok, the organ crew looks too far more me. Maybe it's just the color, and the fact that it is must be a pain to wear that with armor.

Spot on stuff;
1;Yes
2;Yes
3;Yes and Karl Franz. Shame his voice is the same guy we hear a lot in Rome 2 and Attila. Get Patrick Stewart to voice him or something, re-using voice actors is not judged kindly in my eyes especially when it brings back bad memories (*Cough *cough Carthage)

[HigoChumbo]

Alright this is a paradox. If they are close, then it's blobbing. If they are too far apart, "LOL looks like Total war not warhammer". Having there current formations is ok, since they do collide in combat.

I believe the blobbing issue everyone speaks about is an entirely different matter. It has more to do with soldiers occupying no volume, making units lose cohesion in close combat and ending up with dozens of units concentrated on a tiny dot on the battlefield.

What I'm talking about is probably more a matter of artistic design than of gameplay. The artistic design (in general) of what we've seen so far leaves a lot to be desired, to be honest.

[Saurus]

Let's put the stuff on the table now that there is still time for things to change.

Things I believe need to change:

• Orcs look bad. The running animations make them look ridiculous. They don't feel threatening at all, more like cute green teddy bears.
• Giants need variation. And beards.
• The map looks really dated when zoomed out.
• Units don't capture the feeling of Warhammer regiments at all (no sense of variation and individualism, units too spaced, etc.)
• Overall, still too much Total War and too little Warhammer.

I disagree on these.
I think the Orcs and Giants are spot on from what you could expect. Most of GW giants don't have beards, just check google for that. I mean it's your oppinion but when we're talking about beeing close to the table top... they are. For Orcs, I mean it's stylistic choice but I personally like it.

As for the map: I'm glad it looks like this. Because that is what you can expect from the game. Did you really want another carthage demo with completly unrealistic and over the top visuals?
Maybe the rock/lava part and greenish hills part are to different for a single map but I would't critize them for that.

I think they do. Problem is we never saw them animated but from artistic visuals... yeah, I think I'm fine with that.

What do you expect? Look at Mark of Chaos, that was Warhammer with game elements. It was bad. Really bad. I'm glad CA are taking this route because it would be way more devastating if the game doesn't work than if the lore is incorrect.
Just look at Call of Warhammer (or Rage of the Dark Gods?!), it works but is basically a reskinned Total war. Yet people are happy with it.

[Orkfaeller]

• Giants need variation. And beards.

I'd like to believe we're gettin an alternate giant skin and they simply gonna use it for the mercenary all races can hire.



Also, one of the reasons I hope the game will be somewhat moddable is that I'd like to do some alternate giant skins. I think one could do some fun stuff with a little bit of warpaint.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

I am almost certain that the PFM and such will still work with this, seeing as it is TW3. So that means unit mods will probably happen.

I hope at least.

[joedreck]

I think total war series still all in one same. There was Small changes here and there, sometimes better, sometimes worst. Only the graphics grow up. Im sure the Details will be fantastic again.
AI still bad, campaign map gameplay still boring, units are not historical as always mentioned. Sure there are no better strategy games out there (man of war only), but hopefully GW take influence at the end. But to be honest it is on us modders to make it acceptable at the end and close to table top.

[Majorbookworm]

I'm not so concerned about the visuals of the Empire Troops. They are meant to be Imperial State forces, so i'd expect that they are a bit more regimented in their uniforms (which is something i prefer in an army), and i'd also expect a lot more detail to come in the finished product. The only aesthetic thing that annoyed me was the metal textures being the overly shiny (chromed?) Attila-style ones, which i am not a fan of.

[von stoker]

Halbadiers are the grunts of the army. I wouldn't expect them to be too flamboyant. If CA give all units puffy sleeves, piebald pantaloons and feathered hats then you will have the usual "where's the unit variety" whine fest.

[Orkfaeller]

Halbadiers are the grunts of the army. I wouldn't expect them to be too flamboyant. If CA give all units puffy sleeves, piebald pantaloons and feathered hats then you will have the usual "where's the unit variety" whine fest.

And where is the variety now? We have three bodies and four heads. ( one of which being tilean, not imperial )
Which not only has to cover at least three units: halberdiers, swordsmen and spearmen ( asuming we even get those ) but are also reused among other non state-troop models like the artillery gun crews for example.

Those are the models we are gonna look at the majority of the time.

And I'm having trouble with the "they are just grunts" argument, because the elite empire greatswords aren't looking any better. Arguebly even more removed from their original designs.