things that should be improved about the trailer of karl franz

[HigoChumbo]

I disagree on these.
I think the Orcs and Giants are spot on from what you could expect. Most of GW giants don't have beards, just check google for that. I mean it's your oppinion but when we're talking about beeing close to the table top... they are.

What better source than Games Workshop's own website:



And I'm not saying that they all need beards, I'm saying that they need variation, and beards would be a good choice to achieve just that.


About orcs, I've seen orcs animated in other Warhammer games and they don't look as weird, even when the raw quality of animations in Total War is definately much better.

As for the map: I'm glad it looks like this. Because that is what you can expect from the game. Did you really want another carthage demo with completly unrealistic and over the top visuals?

You mean that to be sincere they have to make it worse than any previous Total War I can think of?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Look at the tank on the hill in the background, looks like it's floating.

I would't critize them for that

I'm not, I'm merely pointing out stuff that does not convince me now that there is still time for them to look at it in case it's really an issue. It's not uncommon for people to start asking for changes one month before release when nothing is going to change.

I think they do. Problem is we never saw them animated but from artistic visuals... yeah, I think I'm fine with that.

I was speaking strictly of visuals. In my opinion they don't look at all like Warhammer regiments. I get that they can't adapt them exactly the same (there would not even be room for animations), but they have not even tried, so far they have just picked the usual Total War units and swapped the models.

Does something of what you saw inspire the same feelings as this?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What do you expect? Look at Mark of Chaos, that was Warhammer with game elements. It was bad. Really bad.

I was talking about visuals, not about gameplay mechanics. And you can't compare the work of a mediocre company with the work of CA. In any case, as bad a game as it might have been, it did so far a much better job at capturing the feeling of Warhammer, even with the worse graphics. Look at their state troops and compare that to what you saw in the trailer:





Look at the greatswords:




As you can see, it's not a matter of graphical limitations. Current Total Wars have much better grahpics than that. It's a matter of artistic design.

Just look at Call of Warhammer (or Rage of the Dark Gods?!), it works but is basically a reskinned Total war. Yet people are happy with it.

I am not. In fact, I've used it plenty of times to point out what I would not want TW:Warhammer to turn into (aka, just a reskinned Total War). And even then, they too did a better job (so far) at capturing the feeling of Warhammer units.

"they are just grunts"

One can make grunts look as cool as one wants.

[Orkfaeller]

Still in love with that concept art for Empire State Troops.

[scoicarius]

Does something of what you saw inspire the same feelings as this?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Wonderful miniatures. When you think they have access to so many models and artwork as inspiration. However, as you said,

It's a matter of artistic design.

Having the building blocks is never enough. It requires creative vision to filter and tie them all together. I'm one of those people who appreciate the attention to detail and how they manage to capture the feel of Warhammer more than the graphical spectacle. And I find it all the more annoying since they did faithfully create some miniature models.

[Saurus]

bla

State troops also looked like these at a certain point and yet I don't argue with you that CAs' models are fine. The giant kit you posted is 1 out of 4 possibilities. All other kits are beardless. Yet you tell us that beards "need" to be in it.

I don't know why I'm even arguing in the first place since it is an in-engine trailer for a game not even in alpha. Yet you messure it with completely unrealistic scales.
If CA decided to change colors to white/black I'm 100% sure you could recreate that screenshot you posted, even at this stage. Yet you take the worst of TW:WH and the best of CoW and compare these. But thats probably because you're complaining first and foremost just for the sake of it.

Yes, there needs to be improvement on some aspects but most of your critique is completely out of place. In the end we should wait for the 30th and then take a closer look. I personally really liked this trailer and the fact that there are these "mistakes" in it gives me more hope than despair because in my eyes it is a good sign for CA really trying to make a game instead of fast cash.
And the lack of variety gives me hope that it is decently playable. As much as I want this game... I don't want another "wait 10 minutes after you press 'end turn'"-disaster like Rome 2. I can deal with there beeing only 1 giant model. How often do you see more than one anyway? But I can't deal with 10fps due to unrealistic PC requirements.

Better have good game mechanics than godly visuals.

[HigoChumbo]

The giant kit you posted is 1 out of 4 possibilities. All other kits are beardless. Yet you tell us that beards "need" to be in it.

Since everything I said reflects my own, personal opinion, yes, they do. And again, I'm not saying that they have to add beards to every giant, but that giants could use some variety and beards would be a perfect way to achieve just that.

I don't know why I'm even arguing in the first place since it is an in-engine trailer for a game not even in alpha.

In engine means just that it's not gameplay and that a lot of stuff is prone to change. But it would be naive to think that there is nothing of the game in that. For instance, I'd bet demigriphs are going to look really similar if not exactly the same as you saw in that video. You don't see people complaining about the gameplay here, since we know it's in-engine, but that video is a decent enough indicator of how the game will overall look. I wouldn't expect many drastic changes, to be honest.

By the way, there is a difference between complaining and making constructive suggestions. And it makes a hell of a lot more sense to make those now when there is still time to work in the game than one month before release.

Yet you messure it with completely unrealistic scales.

How so? In my opinion they have in general not managed to capture the atmosphere I associate with Warhammer. Don't know what "unrealistic" about that opinion.

If CA decided to change colors to white/black I'm 100% sure you could recreate that screenshot you posted, even at this stage.

With the same models? I doubt it. They already have bi-color patterns (red and white).

Yet you take the worst of TW:WH and the best of CoW and compare these.

That's actually Mark of Chaos. And I have praised CA's job in other areas, such as general animation or how spot-on the orc boss on the wyvern looks. And I'm not doing what you claim I'm doing, but in any case if the worst of TWWH is worse than the best of CoW (or MoC or whatever), then what better reference to improve it? It's not like it's a fanboystic competition.

But thats probably because you're complaining first and foremost just for the sake of it.

I'm sorry to disappoint but that's just not the case. There are things about the trailer I feel could be improved and it's perfectly acceptable to voice them without being accused of "complaining for the sake of it". In fact, if I point out those things is precisely because I'd like the final game to be as good as possible.

Yes, there needs to be improvement on some aspects but most of your critique is completely out of place.

Please, do elaborate on the outofplaceness.

In the end we should wait for the 30th and then take a closer look.

The 30th a lot of people will take exactly the same stance you are taking right now, saying it's an alpha and that it's scripted gameplay and what not. The good thing about opinions is that they cost nothing and that people are free to ignore them if they don't agree with them. It won't hurt anyone if eventually it turns out that every single point I made was unfounded. Believe me, I would be the happiest of the bunch.

In any case, same as above, don't expect a dramatically different thing (at least visually) from the next video.

I can deal with there beeing only 1 giant model. How often do you see more than one anyway? But I can't deal with 10fps due to unrealistic PC requirements.

I find surprising that you accuse me of "complaining for the sake of it" and still you make such a big deal of the performance impact adding a moustache would have.

Better have good game mechanics than godly visuals.

And I insist that those are not mutually exclusive.

In any case, they could do the whole thing with 2d sprites for all I care, as far as they achieved the proper atmosphere.

[J1N6666]

Where the was the WAGGGGHHHH sound when they charged? HUH!?!

One more thing about the trailer that pissed me off. I am already really disappointed by the sound quality. Most of it seems like the sounds came from video editing. Where are the actual roaring and screaming, clashing and bashing? They might as well get a better voice actor for Karl Franz as well, they have Dawn of War 2 relic under Sega.

!!!

If they screw up the july 30th presentation, my anticipation and hopes for this title will be crushed. I sincerely, sincerely, they don't screw it up as they did rome 2. But seeing as how the sound direction is going, i'm not having much hope. If Jeffy Dyik shows up for this time however, my hopes will may prevail.

Oh, and one more concern. Where the hell were the banners and flags?


These may be premature concerns considering they are in pre-alpha phase, but these are real concerns. After getting 3=D slapped back in September 2013, I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me.

[korsakoff]

Where the was the WAGGGGHHHH sound when they charged? HUH!?!

If Jeffy Dyik shows up for this time however, my hopes will may prevail.

i don't think Jeff is doing the soundtrack instead we we will probably get more lovely beddow/s

[scoicarius]

In any case, they could do the whole thing with 2d sprites for all I care, as far as they achieved the proper atmosphere.

My thoughts exactly.

Oh, and one more concern. Where the hell were the banners and flags?

I don't really think we'll be getting any except the standard total-war-style floating banners. At least I hope those are extremely varied and detailed.

[Vardeus]

I don't really think we'll be getting any except the standard total-war-style floating banners. At least I hope those are extremely varied and detailed.

We will get banners. Whether very detailed or a simplistic, static bed sheet tied to a pole with underwhelming animations for its bearer we will soon find out. The siege of Carthage footage had no vexillum in sight, and yet they were in the final game.

[SanskritFeud]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Look at the tank on the hill in the background, looks like it's floating.

Top Right empire regiment. Isn't that a banner there? The white black flag.

[Orkfaeller]

Nah, thought so too when I first saw it.

Its just rubble and a charging troll.

_

Though, after rewatching the cinematic trailer I'm quite confident again that we are gonna get banners.

[Revan The Great]

My big complaint so far is towards the Imperial soldiers, who I think could use a bit more detailed models. So far it seems to me that they're guys in pajamas with breast plates...they just seem very plain to me. I'd love to see more random bits of armor - pauldrons, greaves, etc. on random soldier, or stylish hats instead of helmets. And I'd especially like to see some extras on the armor...sashes, medals, religious tokens, etc.

Take this picture as an example for how I would like the Imperial soldiers to look http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-conten...Empire-Art.jpg

[scoicarius]

My big complaint so far is towards the Imperial soldiers, who I think could use a bit more detailed models. So far it seems to me that they're guys in pajamas with breast plates...they just seem very plain to me. I'd love to see more random bits of armor - pauldrons, greaves, etc. on random soldier, or stylish hats instead of helmets. And I'd especially like to see some extras on the armor...sashes, medals, religious tokens, etc.

Take this picture as an example for how I would like the Imperial soldiers to look http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-conten...Empire-Art.jpg

Totally agree. Also skull symbols, lots of 'em.



And eye-patches! I want to be able to tell they're Warhammer units at a glance.



If I didn't know this picture is from Warhammer Total War I wouldn't be able to tell.