[UPD 28 SEP 2020] Preview: Campaign Map

[UchihaGerson]

Unfortunately I can't find it there. The only map I currently have to work on is this one: http://www.honga.net/totalwar/attila...la_map_780.jpg
Like you can see it is very low quality

[UchihaGerson]

Ok forget it, I found it by changing the link by myself. Starting my work now!

[Mr.Jox]

Ok forget it, I found it by changing the link by myself. Starting my work now!

here's my post: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14611668

[UchihaGerson]

2 small questions to you Mr. J: Is it possible to put some regions of a province under water while keeping others (for example: Putting Marcianopolis under water, while keeping Constantinople and the other city)?Is it possible to put only a part of a region (not province) under water?

[Mr.Jox]

yes

[Heisenburrg]

The map is getting even smaller and smaller, we have to be careful and start looking whats possible with exclusion zones, adding land and sth like that

[UchihaGerson]

It may be getting smaller, but is also getting more lore accurate. I am finishing the work on my map concept right now, I'll upload it later so you can see for yourself.

[Mr.Jox]

I've some news about campaign map and not sure if they are good. We can't change pathfinding. What does this mean? This means all vanilla mountains can't be just removed. We can remove them and visually there will be no mountains but your general can't pass in place where vanilla map has mountains. Same goes for trees.
Next is if we add Misty Mountains, visually they will be MM but logically generals will easily go through them. Same for our additional trees.

That't the short report.

[MOS-Lukas-Dwarf]

Ah, i hope that isnt a put off, optimism is highly needed in these dire dire CA times

[Heisenburrg]

Exclusion zones for impassable parts of woods or mountains where are placed no settlements and adding some paths? Is it possible?

[Mr.Jox]

Idk anything about these zones. Didnt try to test yet

[UchihaGerson]

If exclusion zones are possible, we could use them to create the mountain ranges. We simply turn most part of the mountains into exlusion zones and leave some small parts where you can pass through (passageway). I hope it works! By the way, I have finished my map concept. Here it is: https://www.pdfhost.net/index.php?Ac...de38fe61216ca4

[♔atthias♔]

If exclusion zones are possible, we could use them to create the mountain ranges. We simply turn most part of the mountains into exlusion zones and leave some small parts where you can pass through (passageway). I hope it works! By the way, I have finished my map concept. Here it is: https://www.pdfhost.net/index.php?Ac...de38fe61216ca4

greaat work
greetings atthias

[cshewey]

If exclusion zones are possible, we could use them to create the mountain ranges. We simply turn most part of the mountains into exlusion zones and leave some small parts where you can pass through (passageway). I hope it works! By the way, I have finished my map concept. Here it is: https://www.pdfhost.net/index.php?Ac...de38fe61216ca4

Excellent work sir +rep.

If you have any ability in map editing you may wish to contact Vikus or Mr. J.

Thanks
-cshewey

[Alkar]

Well, I have one idea which would raise the amount of "settlements" enormously: How about modding (if possible) permanent army camps? More precisely: You could change the startpos and actually create camps which are already on the map when starting a new campaign. You could rename the camp and change the camp models. Obvioulsy these camps won't count for region ownership, but if it works it would be a very good option. There are 2 problems with this though: Firstly, making a camp permanent would imply you need to actually be able to besiege ot surround it like a settlement instead of having an open fight like in Attila. I don't know if this is possible though. Secondly, camps usually disband if the entire army is defeated, but instead we need the camp to stay and the ownership to change in case of a defeat of the enemy. I hope you get what I actually mean.

Oh one other thing: In Attila you have different types of factions, some of them being able to live as a horde and resettle in new lands, others living permamently as a horde and never being able to settle down in a city and the remaining type including factions which can never become a horde and are always dependent on their settlements. How will you hande this in this game? I am asking this question because it would have consequences for my idea with the camps.

There are also small outlying small towns whose tiles, battlemaps, or whatever could possibly be changed. Is this an option?

[Alkar]

Having seen your maps, I tried to take the best aspects out of them and create a new improved map. Unfortunately I only have a very small campaign map picture. If anybody has a high quality map he can send it to me so I can improve and complete the map entirely. Ok here goes my map:

Here are some explanations:
- The black lines are the map borders.
- The dark blue area is the ocean.
- The yellow area should be called "impregnable desert". Like its name says nobody can travel in this area (to prevent problems with the sea of the original map).
- The pink area should be called "impregnable marshes" or "Death Marshes". Troops can't travel in this areas (to prevent problems with the sea of the original map).
- The brown lines are mountain ranges. Some of them are impregnable, like the ones in the bottom left of Gondor (to prevent problems with the sea of the original map).
- The green areas are forests. The Fangorn forest has been made impregnable on purpose (to prevent problems with the sea of the original map).
- The light blue lines are rivers and the light blue areas are seas. Important: I kept the original watery region of the Hellespont as part of a river in order to allow travel from Helm's Deep (Contantinople) to the rest of Rohan in Asia.
- The red dots are important settlements.

Strong points:
- Lots of settlement options.
- Very close to the lore.
- Most factions are improved in this map.
- The impregnable areas are somewhat logical and could be made by adding exclusion zones.

Weak points:
- Esgaroth/Dale issue: They are not as close to Erebor as in the lore.
- Osgiliath issue: It can be easily added to the map, but it will be a bit off the original location.

Other informations: In order to give Gondor and Rohan its power, their position has been shifted eastwards. In order to allow travelling between Helm's Deep and Edoras or other regions in the east, I kept like already said the watery region of the Hellespont (Bosporus) by turning it into a river. I hope you see the potential of this map and I would be delighted to improve it (with a bigger original campaign map) if the modders like this concept.

I have a couple of questions/concerns. The first is, that Rohan will be quite un-lorish and overpowered if they have a navigable river. They are a plains society, and it takes a while for them to mobilize. I always choose factions with navigable rivers myself for blitzkrieg tactics (high speed and mobility of troop movement). Also, on that note, are there any plans to include the lore rivers, such as the one going through Osgiliath for instance? This determines to a large extent the power of factions (at least according to lore, and in gameplay somewhat as well). Also, Rohan does of course have a river running through it, that was uncrossable save by a ford, and Saruman attacked there. It was a severe deterrent to invaders (but not big enough for troop transports, unless very small rafts and such). Adding this would be quite cool.

[Alkar]

I've some news about campaign map and not sure if they are good. We can't change pathfinding. What does this mean? This means all vanilla mountains can't be just removed. We can remove them and visually there will be no mountains but your general can't pass in place where vanilla map has mountains. Same goes for trees.
Next is if we add Misty Mountains, visually they will be MM but logically generals will easily go through them. Same for our additional trees.

That't the short report.

That's exactly what I was afraid of (according to pathfinding logic). Any word on rivers and seas then? From the trend of the conversation, it appears that added rivers/seas may not be recognized by the A.I., but just for clarification. Also, seas and rivers that were there will always be recognizable as such, correct (I believe this was the case for seas, but not sure for rivers)?

[Mr.Jox]

Rivers can be changed as you wish.
Seas not.

[Alkar]

Rivers can be changed as you wish.
Seas not.

That's a lot better than I looked for, sounds great. You can graphically make a sea disappear, and then add an exclusion zone, correct (so nobody travels over that land (which is really sea), however unfortunate)?

[UchihaGerson]

Excellent work sir +rep.

If you have any ability in map editing you may wish to contact Vikus or Mr. J.

Thanks
-cshewey

If anybody could give me links for tutorials or teach me the basics of changing heights and adding exlusion zones and so on, I would glady help!