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Thread: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

  1. #21
    Drakeb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit`` View Post
    This is the thing !!! I had this in vanilla , in DeI and many other mods. When AI declares war on you he just thinks of your power balance. When the actual war starts and when your satrapies enter battle it AI immidealty wants peace with huge cash giveaway. I hope this can change, didn't tried your mod yet but i hope this will be fixed
    I believe this problem is worked out on the steam version, I made it so within the first 20 turns of a war the AI is very uncooperative to peace attempts unless their at deaths door.


    Also, if Dresden or one of the mods could dump this thread into submods that would be great since I don't believe it belongs in the main forum and I don't want to clutter up the room for official stuff and feedback.
    Last edited by Drakeb22; July 14, 2015 at 09:16 PM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Thread moved at author's request.

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  3. #23
    Meraun's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    i tried it as well

    I've got a Arche Bosporus Empire lvl 3. Nabatha went nuts in my game before and conquered everything from Alexandria up to Pontus. without the mod, they didn't declare war on me even when i provoked them
    with Raids and moving trough their lands without permission. (I was at war with Armenia, i had to corss their land)

    With the Mod, they declared war on me right away. a round later they did hit my boardertown with 3 full stacks ;-)
    it has been a Meatwar eversince.

    No other Faction declared war on me, and all the Tradeagreements are stable.

    around 5 other wars broke out between the AI.


    So far i like it, the AI is using It's Stack's much more agressiv.
    waht i have not seen yet, and hope not to see is every neighbor declaring war on me even with positive relations. (is this common with this mod?)

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  4. #24
    Drakeb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Meraun View Post
    i tried it as well

    I've got a Arche Bosporus Empire lvl 3. Nabatha went nuts in my game before and conquered everything from Alexandria up to Pontus. without the mod, they didn't declare war on me even when i provoked them
    with Raids and moving trough their lands without permission. (I was at war with Armenia, i had to corss their land)

    With the Mod, they declared war on me right away. a round later they did hit my boardertown with 3 full stacks ;-)
    it has been a Meatwar eversince.

    No other Faction declared war on me, and all the Tradeagreements are stable.

    around 5 other wars broke out between the AI.


    So far i like it, the AI is using It's Stack's much more agressiv.
    waht i have not seen yet, and hope not to see is every neighbor declaring war on me even with positive relations. (is this common with this mod?)
    When a faction has no ongoing wars, it usually looks upon its weakest neighbor as its next target, unless it hates another one of its neighbors. It goes off of least liked, then least powerful, then closest. So yeah sometimes if your the small peaceful one, your gonna get ganged up on.

  5. #25
    Raisthlin's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakeb22 View Post
    First off I will say that the base of this mod is built off the hard work of Junaidi83's better CAI mod, I've just been tinkering with it throughout the months to get a custom tailored experience of what I want outta the AI.
    Promising work, I will try it!
    Junaidi83's mod has got 3 difficulty (easy-normal-hard), which one did you implent to your mod?

  6. #26

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    So i tried it for 100+ turns now and i really like it.
    Only thing that bugs me is diplomacy. I played Massalia on VH/H and it was a really nice start (even in diplomacy). Once i had a Spy i made her go scout out some factions. When i discovered Lusitania they were like 40+ towards me and accepted to trade with me right away. One turn later they declared war onto me for no reason. Something similiar with Knossos, they just been neutral towards me and requested NAP from me(i didnt accept) next turn they declared war on me aswell. Insurbes declared war on me on 6 turn or so, after i defeated both of their fullstacks i was on my way to cap their capital. Now what was surprising me, once i was near to their capital (couldnt get near enough to cap) i ended the turn and diplomacy popped up. They wanted Peace, become my Client State and give me 7000 gold. As greedy as i am, i tried to get some more gold out of it. I managed to get Peace, Client State, Trade and 10800 gold. All this happend before turn 30.
    I really think this mod is good as it is by now, only diplomacy might need some balancing.

    BTW Rome was pain in the ass to defeat, they had alot of enemies right from the start. Around turn 40+ i declared war on them because they were expanding into my direction. After i took Genua of them they came with 2 fullstacks that all had almost silver exp and like 8 ships to take it back. They destroyed 1 of my main Armies and my Barbarian Aux Army and almost took my Capital. For some reason they retreated after spotting my fullstack navy in port and offered peace. I took it and rotated all my armies towards Roman territory, surprisingly they did almost the same thing. Fighting rome almost made me lose the game by running low on cash and having big PO probs.

  7. #27

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Is there a recommended difficulty to play this on?

  8. #28
    Drakeb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirozero View Post
    So i tried it for 100+ turns now and i really like it.
    Only thing that bugs me is diplomacy. I played Massalia on VH/H and it was a really nice start (even in diplomacy). Once i had a Spy i made her go scout out some factions. When i discovered Lusitania they were like 40+ towards me and accepted to trade with me right away. One turn later they declared war onto me for no reason. Something similiar with Knossos, they just been neutral towards me and requested NAP from me(i didnt accept) next turn they declared war on me aswell. Insurbes declared war on me on 6 turn or so, after i defeated both of their fullstacks i was on my way to cap their capital. Now what was surprising me, once i was near to their capital (couldnt get near enough to cap) i ended the turn and diplomacy popped up. They wanted Peace, become my Client State and give me 7000 gold. As greedy as i am, i tried to get some more gold out of it. I managed to get Peace, Client State, Trade and 10800 gold. All this happend before turn 30.
    I really think this mod is good as it is by now, only diplomacy might need some balancing.

    BTW Rome was pain in the ass to defeat, they had alot of enemies right from the start. Around turn 40+ i declared war on them because they were expanding into my direction. After i took Genua of them they came with 2 fullstacks that all had almost silver exp and like 8 ships to take it back. They destroyed 1 of my main Armies and my Barbarian Aux Army and almost took my Capital. For some reason they retreated after spotting my fullstack navy in port and offered peace. I took it and rotated all my armies towards Roman territory, surprisingly they did almost the same thing. Fighting rome almost made me lose the game by running low on cash and having big PO probs.
    Update
    Told the AI to value friendship a little more when deciding its next target.
    AI will refuse most early peace offers unless it's getting stomped (Like losing two stacks and about to get conquered)
    Slight boost in post-peace mistrust of once-enemies

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisthlin View Post
    Promising work, I will try it!
    Junaidi83's mod has got 3 difficulty (easy-normal-hard), which one did you implent to your mod?
    Between easy and normal.

    "Is there a recommended difficulty to play this on?"

    Recommended Difficulty is either normal or hard for reasonable AI, VH has a anti-player bloodlust that leads to 5 wars on turn 3

  9. #29

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Can we use this on DLC campaigns ? or only Grand campaign ?

  10. #30
    Drakeb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit`` View Post
    Can we use this on DLC campaigns ? or only Grand campaign ?
    Should work just fine with dlc campaigns

  11. #31
    Drakeb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Alright so in my spare time I've been investigating AI behavioral patterns and I've come to the conclusion that the AI rarely utilizes scripted money injections, but will gladly utilize a subsistence bonus set to the faction, I've checked with Saveparser and major factions will have around 300k in the bank unspent without even maxing out their armies since they would view it as going negative on the budget. Meanwhile it will gladly spend the subsistence bonus since it's able to factor that into its overall budget. To test this, I made a "Rome is OP" submod first with alot of scripted income, then with alot of money assigned to their faction trait. The scripted one got bloated with extra money, the one with the money bonus spammed armies and started over-running their neighbors. Is it possible to modify a faction trait with scripting, or add some kind of tax efficiency bonus?

    In other news, if anyone wants a OP rome I have a submod... Here it is
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=481837452
    Last edited by Drakeb22; July 16, 2015 at 07:53 PM.

  12. #32

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    That's actually in direct opposition to what I've seen in my own tests.

    For example giving the AI enough money to upgrade half of it's buildings as a treasury boost on turn 1, then a 4k income bonus per turn, Carthage, Rome, Seleucids, and Egypt began rapidly upgrading their entire empire worth of buildings, then spent money on as many 20 stacks as could be afforded.

    That lead to expansion and better survival.

    Once the money gets into the treasury, the ai was spending it regardless of whether it came from a scripted bonus or from the sustenance bonus.
    It might not be able to figure out what to do with money added by a script the turn before it gets the money (it has no way of knowing it will be getting that money), but there is zero difference between that money, and money given by any other income means once it is actually in the treasury.


    However my test work was based off a sub mod that used the sustenance method, so that method definitely works as well.


    The main issue with the AI has always lay in the lack of empire building the ai does. Higher level buildings, and more of them, means better income and better defence against attack by other AI.
    The bigger empires having many more structures to upgrade, while only working off a similar income as small factions lead to small factions being able to domino effect big factions because the small faction had less to focus on at first. All it takes is one faction to take a city, then take another and another and the big faction falls.

    When the big empires have enough money to keep the entire empire upgraded, it lets them survive attacks from smaller factions on multiple fronts, then the natural economy takes over and the bigger amount of upgraded buildings provides sufficient income for even more empire building and more army stacks.

    The initial income boost (4k in this example) is eventually overshadowed by the faction's own economy.
    Last edited by Ivan_Moscavich; July 17, 2015 at 02:37 AM.

  13. #33
    sturnado's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Would someone be kind enough to upload the mod to Mediafire or something similar?

  14. #34
    Drakeb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Moscavich View Post
    That's actually in direct opposition to what I've seen in my own tests.

    For example giving the AI enough money to upgrade half of it's buildings as a treasury boost on turn 1, then a 4k income bonus per turn, Carthage, Rome, Seleucids, and Egypt began rapidly upgrading their entire empire worth of buildings, then spent money on as many 20 stacks as could be afforded.

    That lead to expansion and better survival.

    Once the money gets into the treasury, the ai was spending it regardless of whether it came from a scripted bonus or from the sustenance bonus.
    It might not be able to figure out what to do with money added by a script the turn before it gets the money (it has no way of knowing it will be getting that money), but there is zero difference between that money, and money given by any other income means once it is actually in the treasury.


    However my test work was based off a sub mod that used the sustenance method, so that method definitely works as well.


    The main issue with the AI has always lay in the lack of empire building the ai does. Higher level buildings, and more of them, means better income and better defence against attack by other AI.
    The bigger empires having many more structures to upgrade, while only working off a similar income as small factions lead to small factions being able to domino effect big factions because the small faction had less to focus on at first. All it takes is one faction to take a city, then take another and another and the big faction falls.

    When the big empires have enough money to keep the entire empire upgraded, it lets them survive attacks from smaller factions on multiple fronts, then the natural economy takes over and the bigger amount of upgraded buildings provides sufficient income for even more empire building and more army stacks.

    The initial income boost (4k in this example) is eventually overshadowed by the faction's own economy.
    Interesting results, I'll have to keep fiddling around with it, at the moment I have a scripted bonus in place to help, but when I use saveparser and see a situation where parthia is dieing with 600k in the bank it can be kind of dishearting. I think it has to do with having a positive balance moreso then anything else. As long as it perceives itself as being in the green on the budget, it will spend, once it sees a deficit spending wise, even if its netting money with a script, it will cut back. A mix of the two seems to be the best option for a aggressive growth strategy.

  15. #35

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    It is strange but mod is unable to download from steam.

  16. #36

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    I do have money going to Parthia and for some reason I too am seeing them not succeed.

    I even tried giving them bonuses on par with Egypt and the Seleucids and it just doesn't work.

    I think the starting situation for Parthia is just so poor that the AI can't cope with it.

    It works for all other factions I am testing it with though, including Epirus who also has a poor starting position.

    Once I'm finished with my tests, I will remove it from the scripted section and add the money to the faction sustenance table just like Yurishiko did, but leave the treasury initial boost in the scripts.

  17. #37
    FlashHeart07's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Moscavich View Post
    I do have money going to Parthia and for some reason I too am seeing them not succeed.

    I even tried giving them bonuses on par with Egypt and the Seleucids and it just doesn't work.

    I think the starting situation for Parthia is just so poor that the AI can't cope with it.

    It works for all other factions I am testing it with though, including Epirus who also has a poor starting position.

    Once I'm finished with my tests, I will remove it from the scripted section and add the money to the faction sustenance table just like Yurishiko did, but leave the treasury initial boost in the scripts.
    Just a quick reply so that I wont steal the topic of this thread.
    But dont you think that the reason Parthia is doing so poor is because of factions like Bactria steamrolling everything. In my test campaigns Parthia seems to build high tier melee and missile cav and have a full stack. But as Bactria is able to field at least two full stacks not many can withstand them in the long run.
    Giving Bactria a negative income seems to keep them on a leash.

  18. #38

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FlashHeart07 View Post
    Just a quick reply so that I wont steal the topic of this thread.
    But dont you think that the reason Parthia is doing so poor is because of factions like Bactria steamrolling everything. In my test campaigns Parthia seems to build high tier melee and missile cav and have a full stack. But as Bactria is able to field at least two full stacks not many can withstand them in the long run.
    Giving Bactria a negative income seems to keep them on a leash.
    Well it's still on topic in so far as improving the campaign AI, but yeah, you might have a point. They can't expand east due to Baktria, and Parthava (despite having no income boost) to the south is apparently unassailable by them, to the west there is the Selecuids and Armenia, Armenia tends to do quite well with no bonus too.

    They are just surrounded by bigger players than themselves.

  19. #39

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    I've tried vanilla Rome, and it seems to me the AI is tied to the game's current date in the campaign map.

    I'm not sure if this is true, but it felt that way at least.

  20. #40

    Default Re: [Submod] New AI Mod for DEI!!!

    Can you please upload the latest version of your mod somewhere different from steam ?

    I gave the mod a try (the older version). I played as the Nervii - VH/N. at around turn number 40 I have already gained control of all of Gaul with only 2 battles in the region. All confederated with me (except the atrebates, they are a military allies of mine). And I dont want to speak ill of the mod, cause I have really big expectaions for it, but the mere 40 turns that I played were really easy. On the other hand the second abttle was just what I expect from the mod. after I confederated with the arverni (my allies killed off their army just before the confederation) the Volcae and the Vivisci declared war on me simultaniously and organised a full attack with their forces on my army that was blockading the nearest bridge. It was a fierce 5000 vs their 8000 troops battle! And they actually managed to kill off more than half of my forces (although most of them basic units form the confederating). After the battle they were left with absolutly no army and they confederated with me as well. Now that was reasonable and I liked it. They had no other choice. But in any other case confederating with the enemy although having standing armies seems quite unrealistic and overly easy.

    Thank you for the work you have put to create this mod and I believe it will be getting better. It really has HUGE potential. I am looking forward to testing your newer version, so please upload it somewhere other than steam. I will give feedback after I test it.

    Cheers!

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