A Guild Hall in King's Landing

[Poach]

Stats: Caron has +3 Wealth and +3 Charisma. His character bio has him as a mercantile-minded man and the RP that I did with him to establish that backstory paints him as a man of business. He's developed the river that Karhold sits on into a dock town and has started logging ventures to export timber to the wider world from the region. He's established a powerful Navy that includes many professional ships. As such, I argue that the merchants should see Caron as of their ilk: they'll have heard of him, heard of Karhold, seen ships from there carrying timber and other goods, know people who have sailed to Karhold on business, and so on.

- - - - -

It was dark by the time the meeting had gathered. Many of King's Landing's merchants were present, from the wealthiest to the simplest. Karhold men were present to, standing alongside the hired muscle that the Guilds were acquiring more and more of these days. The atmosphere was guarded, but not tense: while the city outside the large Guildhouse was exceptionally tense indeed, Caron was known to these Guildsmen and far enough removed from the ruling aristocracy of the city to avoid being labelled as one, yet.

Caron took to the podium at the front of the large room that the Guild used for important meetings and the assembled crowd fell silent.

"Men of business," he said, "You know me. I've dined with some of you, I've seen the flags of many of your companies flying from ships in my harbour, seen the warehouses and guild houses in your names lining the Karhold dock front. I'm here to offer you something."

"The Queen is dead, her heir is dead, and the city is a powder keg. The rabble in Flea Bottom think themselves revolutionaries, plotting to start the civil war all over again, while jumped-up farmers from the countryside squat on the streets and in Septs all over the city claiming money is evil and that the High Septon should rule the Seven Kingdoms. How many of your stores here have been robbed or burned down? How many of your homes vandalised or burgled?"

"I say King's Landing is a dying city: a mess of a city. The Seven Kingdoms as a whole are a mess. One war's just ended and it threatens to restart any minute, and this city is always bearing the brunt of these things. I've got enough ships in the harbour here to move everything you have north, and I have enough land around the docks to expand it twofold with ease."

"Come North and get what you want. No one ever burned Karhold down, no King or Queen ever decides the free market has to be interfered with in Karhold. No religious fanatics ever outlaw money lending in Karhold. The North's got nowhere to go but up! There's endless forest up there to be logged, endless land disused that can be built on, or used to rear sheep for wool or cattle for leather. The South is going to burn again, and again, and again. The North has never burned, not once."

[Pontifex Maximus]

A fat, well dressed merchant separated himself from the crowd. He was richly adorned, with gold rings on every finger, fine dress, and several servants to attend him. "Well My Lord Karstark, certainly your offer is appealing." He said, licking his lips. "A port free of the tariffs of the capital, untouched by war..." He remembered the blockades of the past several years which rendered the ports of the capital unusable. "I have heard of the profitable wool trade of the north..."

He was cut off by the booing of the lower classes of the burghers. These were the laborers and middling men of the port. They stood to gain very little from any repositioning of trade .If anything they would be forced to relocate to some frozen wasteland north with winter coming. "The city will die if we stop caring." He commented with several men joining in by clapping. "The city is dying only if we say so. Why should we go north?"

[Poach]

"The city is dying if the populace says so," countered Caron, "and we men of business number in the tiny minority of that populace. Who will fight the peasants who want to bring the war back into the streets? Who will fight the religious madmen who would make it a crime to engage in business at all? You, my good man? What experience of battle has the owner of a warehouse, or a shopkeeper? Business needs stability to flourish, and you will get no stability here! What ship captain of the Free Cities, or elsewhere in Westeros, is going to hold their cargo in a city that will explode into violence at any moment? What company will invest in a city whose ruling regime holds no power outside the gates of the Red Keep? I've heard of your neighbourhood watches, of the sellswords employed by the Guildhouses growing in number, and you know as well as I the reason for that! You, your family, and your livelihood will be far safer in Karhold. Land in the North is cheap, space in the docks in the North is cheap, labour in the North is cheap. You will not only become safer, you will find that you will thrive financially."

Edit: I had started typing to Ponti's reply before you had posted, Shank.

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

OOC: No worries, I'll delete my post.

[Pontifex Maximus]

The man gave a derisive laugh "But my shop, my dwelling, they are all here! The capital may not be as stable as it once was, but at least I won't have to take the time, money and energy to move my life to some northern wasteland. Besides, the summer is coming to an end."

[Poach]

"I have ships in the harbour waiting to take you: you spend no money. I have space in Karhold's new dock town to give you: you waste no energy," said Caron, "Time is all you lose, the time taken to sail North."

"In return for your lost time I promise wealth: you'll pay less for labour in Karhold, you'll pay less for land in Karhold, you'll pay less in tax, duties and fees in Karhold. You'll gain access to untapped markets in timber and in wool; the waters around Karhold are vaster than those of the entire Crownlands with a fraction of the people there, the fishing industry will boom; the Last River, the mouth of which sits in my lands, runs as far inland as the Kingsroad, and I will see a shipping terminal built there as Karhold grows, giving you access to the interior as well."

"You claim it is a wasteland," said Caron confidently with a laugh, "I say think like a businessman! It is untapped, ripe for exploitation! What man of business would turn down so much land, so much timber, so much fishing ground, so much cheap labour? What man of business elects to stay in a city ruled by gangs and fanatics, until recently blockaded completely, and facing a future of strife and division under the rule of a regime so shakey that cannot protect their own Queen? The potential is massive, the risk of leaving minuscule, and the risk of staying immense."

[Poach]

This needs resolved before these other threads go anywhere. Chronologically this happened first: the strength of the Burghers in following threads depends of what happens here.

[Pinkerton]

OoC: I'll intrude here, as a fellow merchant

"To move from the richest city in Westeros to that icy ? It don't make no sense."

Vernon of Rayonet stood up. The gruff merchant had the backing of the traders of Mud Gate after the events that occured at Regis' establishment.

"Karhold stands far away from any of the trade routes that unite Westeros to the Free Cities, the most profitable of our trade partners. I have me doubs the merchants of Essos would be willing to sail so far north to deal with us westerosi. King's Landing is not only the city of the King, it's located centrally and close to them. Who would we trade with in Karhold? Skagos? Would we get unicorns for our luxury goods?"

He laughed, mocking the proposal

"You say we would get cheap labor in Karhold. Well, that don't make sense either. What's Karhold's population? Eh? Do you even keep numbers? King's Landing is the most populous city of the Seven Kingdoms. What will happen when we hire all the available labour in Karhold? It'll get much more expensive, that's what'll happen. It don't take a genius to think of that, sers.
You also say there's plently of space to develop. But who wants to develop in that cold hell? Most likely it's as twice as expensive to build a warehouse there than it is to build it here, in the city. But here in the city we don't need to build anything, as everything's already built! Relocating will take tons and tons of gold, which I am certain won't be from your pocket, milord."

He took a long deep breath

"And last but not least. It's clear it is you that stands to gain the most out of this move, Lord Karstark. To move all the merchants of King's Landing to Karhold, well, definitely whoever rules the Karhold will get much richer due to the tariffs and the taxes you plan to get from us when we settle there. You are not doing this out of the bottom of your heart, you are clearly looking to diminish the power us merchants hold in the city by moving us somewhere you will be able to control us with an iron grip, so that the lords of this Realm keep taking advantage of our riches for themselves!"

Vernon paused for a second and then said

"We've worked hard to get the position we have here in this city, the biggest city of all Westeros, the city of the King himself. A hundred and thirty-two years of blood, sweat and tears, to be more precise. You expect us to give up our assets and leave for a place that is, as someone here has already stated, a wasteland. This won't do, I say, and I hope all of you, my fellow traders, realize that this man is only seeking to take advantage of us to benefit himself and those near him."

OoC: Vernon has +3 charisma and is currently extorting the merchants of the Mud Gate (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...s-on-the-block), so I think it's fair to say that they would support his point of view, even if out of fear.

[Poach]

Well, someone should roll it. All I'd say to the above is people don't often side with their bully.

[Pinkerton]

Well, someone should roll it. All I'd say to the above is people don't often side with their bully.

True, but Stockholm syndrome anyone ? Yep, someone oughta roll it.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Alright, I am going to do it like this: 1,000 people will be represented by the roll, each with a value of 100 dragons per year for the 10,000 total which was proposed and I think is reasonable.

I don't like base chances of success and all or nothing failure, so I'm going to roll it like this from Karstark's point of view and based strongly on the RP done here. :

1-2: Absolute victory, they all follow him 1000/1000
3-5: Partial victory (700/1000 follow)
5-7: Partial victory (400/1000 follow)
7-13: partial victory: (200/1000 follow
14-20 = failure

Rolled a 13, so partial victory for Karstark.

This means King's Landing Incomeis reduced by 2,000 per year and Karhold income is increased by 2,000 - this will be decreased over time for Karhold if merchants somehow die. King's Landing income will recover at a rate of 500/year to reflect migration to the city.

[Poach]

The next day at the docks, many came with their wares and their wagons, but many more did not. This was still a boost for Karhold, albeit a small one.

No matter, when the rabble rose up and those who remain are treated to the sight of their businesses looted and torched, Karhold would once again extend the offer of relocation, and then yet more would come.

Caron, meanwhile, had other business to attend to. While the ships were loaded and passengers loaded aboard, a squadron of the larger vessels set sail for the east, to Slaver's Bay...