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Thread: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

  1. #21

    Default Re: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

    I think, and I hope, that the team that made Shogun 2 is on this. The recent total wars have many problems, but to summarize all I can say is this.

    A complete and total failure at the synergy between Music, Gameplay, Visuals, Strategy. Exactly what Vardeus said.

    Shogun 2 had this to such an extreme level, that it hit you at an emotional level sometimes. You got an attatchment to your agents, your generals, and felt glee when you finally took Kyoto whether you assaulted the walls with 2 full stacks and artillery, like me, or you lured out the Shogunate and assinated then isolated his forces, etc. At the base level, it felt like Total War in fuedal Japan and could stand on it's on.

    Rome 2 totally and utterly failed at this. Music was based, was totally disconnected from the gameplay which was a complete downgrade from Shogun 2 because of how buggy and ugly it was. The animations were a mess, the battles were fast and the AI was bad. The campaign had more scale, yes, but felt incredibly shallow and turns took alot of time for such simplistic gameplay. The province and army systems only dumbed the game down, by removing control of garrisons and adding stupid factors like Carthage somehow making Nova Carthago Gallic while Carthage is owned by Rome and Nova owned by Gaul. It doesn't make sense. Not only that, there's a total disconect between factions and gameplay too. Rome just has alot of sword infantry, parthia just has useless infantry and heavy cavalry, greeks just have ugly hoplites, etc.

    Attila did slightly better, but the music is still rather bland, repetitive, and unexciting and is disconnected from gameplay. Strategy in the gameplay is much better, however it feels very frustrating if you don't have cavalry heavy armies since Impact is such an overpowered stat, hit something with shock cavalry or even melee cavalry and you will likely route a unit unless it's in a shield wall. You can even route higher tier spear units if they are moving or not in a shieldwall. Game is ugly in my opinion, shadow draw distance is so awful environments look bad, especially if you turn of absurdly performance hogging AA. But the ugliest part is burned material and the brown asthetic, occasionally the game can be very colorful but for the most part it is just low def, similar looking armies and units in a brown environment.

    Warhammer can do better, and I hope it does. The cinematic trailer music sounds great, if they can make the gameplay like it or atleast write music to match the gameplay, then the game will be far off better. Not only that, the art style and visuals need to be colorful and fantasy, Total War has never handled gritty realisim that well. Shogun 2 was a colorful japanese painting, I'd say fantasy-lite but people will argue against that. It is by far the most beautiful total war game yet, you can see it everywhere. The samurai look great, the animations look great, cavalry charges look great, forts and environments look great (some environments have vista's that are just jaw dropping), the lighting and overall color of the game is friendly to the eye and have aged well. Hell I'd argue particle effects look better than Rome 2 and Attila, I could literally prove it with screenshots if I have to. The detail in Shogun 2 was and is incredible, if this could be done with Warhammer then the game will succeed.

    TL;DR I am going to make a thread about this post, and I totally agree with Vardeus.

  2. #22
    ♘Top Hat Zebra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

    Jeff van Dyck is just a better composer than Beddow. Admittedly, I think some tracks in Attila are Beddow's best work so far, but they can't compare to M2TW, or Shogun 2, especially Fall of the Samurai's soundtrack which was very creative and original.

    Shogun 2 is the epitome of Total War atmosphere. It's not about gritty realism, it's about capturing the theme of the locale. Shogun 2's Japan had an ethereal, surreal feeling throughout, with cherry blossoms floating in the breeze like snow, and flames that vaguely capture the feeling of Sengoku art. Bright colors, bright steel. Dark, fog-shrouded nights where you can see naught but the swaying paper lanterns held by units as their lines clash, bright days where the sun gleams in every blade as it rises and falls.

    Attila, to it's credit, sometimes nails the atmosphere. When your dragonships cut through the waves, approaching a small fishing village covered in fog, javelins sticking into your shieldwall as the enemy charges, or when your battle-weary legions inexorably march towards Ctesiphon in the midst of a sandstorm, everything comes together to look and sound great. But those moments are rare, compared to Shogun 2.

    To me, capturing the atmosphere of the setting is far more important than making sure an orge's lips sync with his screams.
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  3. #23
    HigoChumbo's Avatar Definitely not Jom.
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    Default Re: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

    Shogun 2 is the epitome of Total War atmosphere.
    While Shogun 2 is definately on my top 3, I think I'd put both Shogun 1 and Medieval 1 ahead of it in terms of how atmospheric those two games were.


    Attila does look good in that aspect, but I haven't tried it yet so I can't comment. I'll probably wait until I have a decent graphics card to fully enjoy it.


    To me, capturing the atmosphere of the setting is far more important than making sure an orge's lips sync with his screams.
    I couldn't agree more, although for Warhammer in particular I believe that lip syncing will add to the sense of immersion, I really could not imagine an orc horde charging with impassible faces. Warhammer has always been a very gesticulative universe, you only need to take a glance at (most of) the miniatures to notice that.

  4. #24
    zealox's Avatar Laetus
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradamed View Post
    Put the best elements from the TW franchise and you have a winner. I want good collision, family trees like in RTW, want to develope my general like in S2, want to have the building system and upgradeable units like in M2TW, want to have neat 1v1 animations and beautiful landscapes like in Attila. CA do not need to reach outside of the franchise to build a fantastic game. Everything is already there. They just need to keep the focus and not create a new fiasco.
    Agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by HigoChumbo View Post
    Well, it was, 10 years ago. Now it is not. Yes, the battles had a good sense of weight but that's about it. Going back to an older engine doesn't really seem like a good idea to me, if anything, they should create a new one and try to replicate with it that feeling of mass medieval had.
    Well not going back to the engine, but what I meant was to create a engine similar to what medieval 2 used.
    Last edited by HigoChumbo; October 17, 2015 at 10:16 PM. Reason: merged consecutive posts.

  5. #25
    Kahvipannu's Avatar Bring me Solo & wookie
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    Default Re: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

    What I would want it to be? Give bastard child of M2 and CK2, and raise it up as WH, that is what I would love to see. Best, game, ever. That is actually what I tought/hoped Rome 2 to be, without the WH part, oh how silly I was thinking that...

    EDIT:

    On serious note, if the battles are fun and epic, strategy side is robust, and most importantly, it feels Warhammer, I will propably be happy with it personally.
    Last edited by Kahvipannu; July 05, 2015 at 09:44 AM.

  6. #26
    HigoChumbo's Avatar Definitely not Jom.
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    Default Re: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

    For some reason I forgot to mention that Cossacks 2 style battles (larger area with maneuvering and different objetives, the battle can take place in several different stages and locations within the same battlemap) would be a good alternative if they were to keep the turn based campaign system. Added it to my previous post.

  7. #27

    Default Re: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

    I want it to have AI that is cloud based and can learn from player's tactics and evolve. As for balance style, I wish it does not get to be Shogun. Many of you love it, but I don't like it one bit. It is too simple.

  8. #28
    joedreck's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

    I hope honestly to See some funny Situation with orcs and goblins. Maybe how they thrash each other during q battle. If im not wrong this is their style, right?
    Edictum mod adds new edicts to Rome II. http://www.twcenter.net / YouTube: Edictum Mod / Click here for Edictum Mod on steam
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  9. #29

    Default Re: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

    Proper AI.

  10. #30

    Default Re: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?

    Quote Originally Posted by joedreck View Post
    I hope honestly to See some funny Situation with orcs and goblins. Maybe how they thrash each other during q battle. If im not wrong this is their style, right?



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