what factions should have been ingame?

[Gelgoog]

k i remember playing some mods for medieval 1 where there added a bunch of factions like lithuanians, Kiev, bohemians, ect. so what do you think should be ingame?

[Klund]

Well firstly they should have simply renamed Spain to Castile (not sure why they did this, they even gave them the Castile arms). The 'Egypt' faction should not have been in game for the year 1080, should have been the Ayyubids with Saladin as a leader, or atleast a general at that time. Portugal should NOT have control of Pamplona, and thats where I would have added my first faction the rightful controlers of Pamplona, Kingdom of Navarre. Others I would add for 1080 is Sweden, change Milan to Genoa, change Russians to Novgorad or Kievan Rus, would have added the Pechenegs, Lithuania, Armenia, Aragon and possibly to add some European spice would have added the Duchy of Brittany as a vassal to France, and Duchy/Kingdom of Burgundy as the vassals to the HRE.

The biggest problem though is the small amount of provinces in M2TW, they really could have broken most of these provinces down into smaller ones and had atleast twice as many as there are now. I mean when the entire Iberian Peninsula has a total of 8 provinces then its impossible to add the historical factions that should have been there. It's also impossible to get a real 'hundred years war' feeling between England and France when there are so few provinces to go back and forth between the two.

[Gelgoog]

The biggest problem though is the small amount of provinces in M2TW, they really could have broken most of these provinces down into smaller ones and had atleast twice as many as there are now. I mean when the entire Iberian Peninsula has a total of 8 provinces then its impossible to add the historical factions that should have been there. It's also impossible to get a real 'hundred years war' feeling between England and France when there are so few provinces to go back and forth between the two.

i would say your totally correct there, this is my biggest problem with the total war games and playing the vanilla version, while they call it a "historical" game its very losely based, and by limiting the factions even if alot arent playable, it cuts down on the atmosphere of widespread kindoms all over the place. in the vanilla version i feel like its more akin to post feudalism europe, which is not the emphasis of this time period. and yes there should be alot more regions in the game, id imagine that especially to those people living in europe would love to be taking over smaller regions there are real familiar with, like a brit capturing yorkshire or something instead of the whole are that could fit 5 or 6 regions.

[SkandAhl]

Well firstly they should have simply renamed Spain to Castile (not sure why they did this, they even gave them the Castile arms). The 'Egypt' faction should not have been in game for the year 1080, should have been the Ayyubids with Saladin as a leader, or atleast a general at that time. Portugal should NOT have control of Pamplona, and thats where I would have added my first faction the rightful controlers of Pamplona, Kingdom of Navarre. Others I would add for 1080 is Sweden, change Milan to Genoa, change Russians to Novgorad or Kievan Rus, would have added the Pechenegs, Lithuania, Armenia, Aragon and possibly to add some European spice would have added the Duchy of Brittany as a vassal to France, and Duchy/Kingdom of Burgundy as the vassals to the HRE.

The biggest problem though is the small amount of provinces in M2TW, they really could have broken most of these provinces down into smaller ones and had atleast twice as many as there are now. I mean when the entire Iberian Peninsula has a total of 8 provinces then its impossible to add the historical factions that should have been there. It's also impossible to get a real 'hundred years war' feeling between England and France when there are so few provinces to go back and forth between the two.

First post!
As a swede it would be fun to play as Sweden but it's not strange that they arn't in the game, because Sweden wasn't a united country until 1200 something. Many of you porably think that the vikings created sweden around the year 1000, but they had nothing to do with it.

[Klund]

First post!
As a swede it would be fun to play as Sweden but it's not strange that they arn't in the game, because Sweden wasn't a united country until 1200 something. Many of you porably think that the vikings created sweden around the year 1000, but they had nothing to do with it.

I believe it was earlier than that, when did they have their first King? 12th century some time?

Anyways, even if it is 100 years off before they were truly a nation/kingdom I would still feel Sweden should be put in for gameplay purpose. Right now, Denmark goes unchecked in that area and they spread way too rapidly into France and the HRE. If they had a rival faction directly north of them it would hopefully put Denmark in check. I could happily ignore a Swedish faction that is before their time by 20-50 years more so than I can a 'Spain' and 'Egypt'.

[SkandAhl]

I believe it was earlier than that, when did they have their first King? 12th century some time?

Anyways, even if it is 100 years off before they were truly a nation/kingdom I would still feel Sweden should be put in for gameplay purpose. Right now, Denmark goes unchecked in that area and they spread way too rapidly into France and the HRE. If they had a rival faction directly north of them it would hopefully put Denmark in check. I could happily ignore a Swedish faction that is before their time by 20-50 years more so than I can a 'Spain' and 'Egypt'.

Yes there where kings, but not swedish kings. Sweden where devided into mainly 3 parts: Swealand, Westgothia and Eastgothia. And as i said before they where constantly at war with eachother.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

It's also impossible to get a real 'hundred years war' feeling between England and France when there are so few provinces to go back and forth between the two.

I can't agree on that point. Ever since the game started I was fighting against france, we had a ceacefire after about 100 years but it lasted for only 10 turns or so and then the war started again, 50ish years and I finaly conquered them.
At one point they were invading England with the Danes as their allies and I tought I'd lose but then the pope died and an English cardinal was promoted. He excommuncated the French and the Danes abandoned their invasion.
I was able to call a crusade on Paris and get some aid from Milan and Hungary to destroy them.
But then the pope died again O_O.
The new pope was Hungarian I belive so it mattered little. Milan gave up their campaign in France as they were reconciled and Hungary was buissy with god knows what on the eastern front.
Anyway, we continued fighting and after 100 years I held Normandy and Paris and we agreed upon a ceacefire.
I was enjoying economical growth and very successfull campaigns in the middle-east against rebels. After 10 maybe 15 turns BOOM the French lay siege to Paris and Caen.
It went very well for me in the beginning I did't lose anything (...in Europe, I was forced to abandon my personal crusade in the mid-east). Then the French got some wicked cavarly and managed to take back Paris and a chunk of Normandy. The pope excommunicated them and Milan attacked them from the south.
Soon enough I was able to capture all the norherna and central provinces. Just 10ish turns after they were excommunicated I was able to crush them, at last.

So to make a long story short, there is deffinetly a 100-years war feeling between England and France in my campaign. Fortunately it ended well enough for my part .
GOD SAVE THE KING!

[Inhuman One]

As a dutch myself I would like to see Holland in the game. It could be a vassal to the HRE at first.

They really should have made Holland a province of its own at least, now they combined it with Belgium, having the docks at Amsterdam and Antwerp as the city. Amsterdam should have been the city of Holland and Antwerp should be the city of Belgium.

If aztecs have a place in the game than the dutch definatly would have a place in the game. Its not some small kingdom that dissappeared later on but its still one of the wealthiest countries. From the very start Holland was powerfull for such a small nation. The spanish couldnt conquer us in the 80 years war.

To add Holland there would need to be more provinces there though. two would be enough I believe. one for the upper part and one for the lower part. I am not sure which of the major cities were big in medieval times though, probably amsterdam and rotterdam but they are rather close to each other.

Since Italy is even divided up into several city states instead of just thrown on one pile and called Italy they really should have put in Holland. Venice, Milan and Sicilly had a short period of power and Holland had a far longer period of power.

[Ladon]

As a dutch myself I would like to see Holland in the game. It could be a vassal to the HRE at first.

As another Dutch person: Did you get any history at school? I'm glad that they didn't put Holland in. The exact year the Netherlands where established might be different according to the historian you ask, but ist's always at least a couple of hundred years later than the start of this game. It would be even worse than including the name 'Spain'.

The dutch province called Holland was there. But it was not much more then muddy backwater lands, or at least that is how most people/kings/etc. saw it those days. If a mod is made, starting in 1500 or so, It should be added, not now.

[Gunther TheBlack]

As a dutch myself I would like to see Holland in the game. It could be a vassal to the HRE at first.

They really should have made Holland a province of its own at least, now they combined it with Belgium, having the docks at Amsterdam and Antwerp as the city. Amsterdam should have been the city of Holland and Antwerp should be the city of Belgium.

The dutch were of no significance until the 16th century when half of flanders moved to the north because of the 80 years war. The only decent city in current day holland in those Days was Utrecht, Amsterdam and Rotterdam only got big after the 80 years war in the 16th century.

Flanders is a big miss on this map, with Bruges and Antwerp. Not even mentioning Yper, Ghent and other cities. They were the economic power house of the middle ages in northwest europe.

[Duke Lysander]

the one kingdom that should be here...
if starting where CA started 1080..

THE KINGDOM OF JERUSALEM.
ACRE, Antioch, Jerusalem, Tyre and Tripoli..
this was a KINGDOM at this time. King Baldwin I(leper King) it may have lost Jerusalem in 1097 but the other cities remained the Kingdom of Jerusalem till the late 1300's

[Mig el Pig]

As a dutch myself I would like to see Holland in the game. It could be a vassal to the HRE at first.

They really should have made Holland a province of its own at least, now they combined it with Belgium, having the docks at Amsterdam and Antwerp as the city. Amsterdam should have been the city of Holland and Antwerp should be the city of Belgium.

If aztecs have a place in the game than the dutch definatly would have a place in the game. Its not some small kingdom that dissappeared later on but its still one of the wealthiest countries. From the very start Holland was powerfull for such a small nation. The spanish couldnt conquer us in the 80 years war.

To add Holland there would need to be more provinces there though. two would be enough I believe. one for the upper part and one for the lower part. I am not sure which of the major cities were big in medieval times though, probably amsterdam and rotterdam but they are rather close to each other.

Since Italy is even divided up into several city states instead of just thrown on one pile and called Italy they really should have put in Holland. Venice, Milan and Sicilly had a short period of power and Holland had a far longer period of power.

1) Holland meant nothing during the middleages(only Dorestad was important and that was completly ransacked by the vikings before the middle ages, Amsterdam and Rotterdam didn't even exist yet(amsterdam wasn't a city till 1300 and it wasn't mentioned in histroy before that)

2) Antwerp wasn't big during the midieval period either( unlike Ghent(which was on of the biggest cities during the middle ages) and Brugges, which where the heart of flanders, next to the cities of Lille, Courtrai, and Calais.)

The timescale in thi game is from 1080 till 1530, Holland had barely any influence in that period. It's "clime" only started in 1441(under the bourgoundians, and after them the spanish)
You shoudn't take your info out of games and read abit about the history of your country.

[Inhuman One]

I did get history at school in a rather crappy way actually. they kept focusing on the second world war which I didnt find interesting at all. Very little was told about dutch history, most history I have learned from games.

and as I said, if they include the aztecs which were discovered after Holland was established, Holland should be in the game as well.

[el_barbar]

I agree with most of you.

Maybe they should have made Holland or the faction of the Netherlands appear later, just as they did it with the Britoromans or Slavs in Barbarian Invasions, so that they revolt and get control of the region. They should have also split between the Netherlands and Brabant or Belgium.

I was also desmayed by the lack of provinces or regions, that there are in the game. Some very important historical regions have been left outside the game, especially in the iberian peninsula, such as the county of Catalunya, which the annexed it to a sort of mixure between the Kingdom of Aragón and the Taifa of Zaragoza. Portugal should also not start with the capital at Lissabon but norther and there should also be a region to the south with the name Alentejo or Taifa of Bataljus (Badagoz).

With the factions that shoudl be added I think that a Kingdom of Navarra would be much interesting or a Kingdom of Aragón, since they were with Castille the two kingdoms that fought for the supremacy at the iberian peninsula.

Milan should be also countered with a Genovese faction or maybe later with a Florentine one. The south of Italy should be maybe expanded by adding some other counties, like the duchy of Spoleto or Benevento for instance.

[Luxchamp]

since i'm from luxembourg, i'd rly love to see the house of luxembourg added in a mod, although their influence was limited to territories between france and the HRE....they count 3 emperors amidst their ranks, as well as the kingdom of bohemia for some time...don't remember exactly, but methinks the first luxembourgish king of bohemia was john the blind (+ 1346 at crécy) to at least the emperor siegismund in the 15th century...most famous battle fought by the luxembourgish (besides crécy) was the battle of worringen in 1288 where their lineage was almost extinct as 3 brothers died there, leaving only a little child as the heir of luxembourg.


now what'd'ya think?

[Klund]

I was also desmayed by the lack of provinces or regions, that there are in the game. Some very important historical regions have been left outside the game, especially in the iberian peninsula, such as the county of Catalunya, which the annexed it to a sort of mixure between the Kingdom of Aragón and the Taifa of Zaragoza. Portugal should also not start with the capital at Lissabon but norther and there should also be a region to the south with the name Alentejo or Taifa of Bataljus (Badagoz).

I posted this in the mod threads before when I was talking about how I would want the Iberian Peninsula to be changed. This was before someone on the medieval total realism forum told me there is a 199 province cap, I didn't know there was one so might have to combine some of these but either way it would be much better:

Iberian Peninsula: Zaragoza, Barcelona, Asturias, Navarre, Burgos, Leon, Galicia, Toledo, Cordoba, Mallorca, Badajoz, Valencia, Sevilla, Murcia, Grenada, Porto, Algarve, Beja

[Kroz]

Serbia, and Norway...yeah!

[Soulghast]

Making ottomans a different factiond from seljuks.

[Hunter]

ARAGON!!!

They had a major role in Reconquista with Castile and Portugal!!! The 3 kingdoms should have been in!!! Besides that, Aragon joined to Castile to found Spain!

[Sadreddine]

ARAGON!!!

They had a major role in Reconquista with Castile and Portugal!!! The 3 kingdoms should have been in!!! Besides that, Aragon joined to Castile to found Spain!

Agreed. And the Kingdom of Navarra being rebels at least, instead of stupidly belonging to the portuguese faction.

Now that we´re asking ... also split the "Moors" into Andalusians, Almoravids and Almohads. The game needs more Muslim factions to gain variety.