UNITS ROSTERS discussion

[Jurand of Cracow]

I hope the units roster will ever be sorted by class, it is currently in chaos.

I think peasants who have 1 attack and 2 defense are better off not being in the game either. They decide nothing and take their seats in vain in the slots. Also the units run away from the battlefield in a very short time.

Yeah, sorting of the units will be ongoing. But the adjustment of the stats will probably be conduted later.
Peasants are almost out of the game, but Peasant Archers are Levy Archers, and they will stay.
I don't think the units run away in a very short time - if you compare it with EBII they definitely not.

[Khevsur]

Jurand of Cracow

It would be nice if every kingdom would have a historical unit roster.

My roster of Georgian units is very accurate and with a historical system. No unit is a fantasy.It would be great if there would be a similar roster in all factions

[umbracatervae777]

There's a thing called hardcode. Unless we wait for Medieval 2 Remastered if ever happens (I heard in Rome Remastered, hardcode was extended)

[kostic]

@Umbracatervae has been working georgia units for a long time...
Would it be possible to insert those he has finished by replacing units already in place for the moment ?
Then, some work would have to be done to change unit names without crashing the game. Probably some work for @jurand who takes care of both the EDB and the strategic files.


On my side, as I take care of EDU and modeldb files, @Umbracatervae could send me its units with textures, mesh and entries for modeldb, without forgetting to specify me which units to replace in the EDU ?

[j.a.luna]

@Umbracatervae has been working georgia units for a long time...
Would it be possible to insert those he has finished by replacing units already in place for the moment ?
Then, some work would have to be done to change unit names without crashing the game. Probably some work for @jurand who takes care of both the EDB and the strategic files.


On my side, as I take care of EDU and modeldb files, @Umbracatervae could send me its units with textures, mesh and entries for modeldb, without forgetting to specify me which units to replace in the EDU ?

This is a great idea kostic! We would have some new georgian models in sship!
For other hand, is possible that my "modifications" would be added in sship? They are new units descriptions and new stats/attributes for more historical and logical, currently here in Spain is the Holy Week and we will more free time for upload a new version with more descriptions and stats, also i would like that sship developers They will review it and give me the approval if possible

Thanks for new version, soon i will upload review of my campaigns and some notes for improve the mod.

[Jurand of Cracow]

@kostic: you've got actually three EDU, with costumes for different centuries, right? This means that changes will be needed in each of those files?

On the new units: there's already excessively many Georgian units, other factions do not enjoy so many unique units. Until the Med2 Remastered appears, I would be unwilling to add more Georgian units (apart from one badly needed: Foot Aznauri). Replacement should also be done with care so that the EDB recrutiment would make sense afterwards.

[kostic]

There are actually only 2 EDUs at the moment:
1- an EDU in the data folder (for the 12th century period). This file is duplicated and placed in the data XII folder to allow the user to restart a campaign if he has already modified his EDU by the one in the data XIII.
2- an EDU in the data XIII folder only modifies the allocation of certain horses for a few units.


The idea is effectively to limit the differences between the EDUs by choosing to directly replace the models and the textures by others of the same name but with a different appearance (for example, the "model mount_royal_marka_lod0" in the data XII folder is not the same as that in data XIII).




As far as Georgian units are concerned, it is not just a question of adding units, but of replacing the old ones with the new, more historical models made by @umbracatervae... although for now, the names and the descriptions don't match yet.

[Khevsur]

kostic

I look forward to it. I have been working on Georgian units for many years. I am very grateful to team and especially Umbra s .


map of Georgia is very beautiful and created for defense battles, it was so historically - Georgians used well relief of Caucasus and deep Forests against enemy in past. Were it not for these mountains and forests, we probably would not have survived. Even though we knew the art of war and we had the power. Just about all empires were coming here

[kostic]

Compared to the current SSHIP (in which the units are not yet modified), our friend @Umbra would have to provide me with the models he has already made - .mesh, textures... - with a copy of the battle_models.modeldb entries.
If he modified the EDU, I would also need this last file so that I can adapt it to the current game (most of the conflicts can be found in the names of the units because these are used in several files at the same time time for the game not to crash).

[Khevsur]

Compared to the current SSHIP (in which the units are not yet modified), our friend @Umbra would have to provide me with the models he has already made - .mesh, textures... - with a copy of the battle_models.modeldb entries.
If he modified the EDU, I would also need this last file so that I can adapt it to the current game (most of the conflicts can be found in the names of the units because these are used in several files at the same time time for the game not to crash).

I think Umbra should present final screenshots of all units. Then we will make the necessary corrections and after that these Georgian units will enter the game.

[Jurand of Cracow]

[kostic]

Hello Jurand, I see things that question me in the images above: it is about the composition of the Abbasid army.
How is it that a Middle Eastern army has so many units from Western Europe?
Among other things, I see javelins from the Iberian Peninsula. Is it an army of mercenaries recruited there?

[AnthoniusII]

Hello Jurand, I see things that question me in the images above: it is about the composition of the Abbasid army.
How is it that a Middle Eastern army has so many units from Western Europe?
Among other things, I see javelins from the Iberian Peninsula. Is it an army of mercenaries recruited there?

What is the SSIP time frame? Abbasids -like all Islamic factions- have a huge pool of units.
Palace or Emr's units. A number of units that each Emir had to protect him.
The local Arabic population units. Those are comon in every Islamic faction.
The Unique units :
a) Former mercenaries that beeing part of the society and even raced to ellite classes (Turkic origin mainly for Abbasids).
b) The units that served in their areas but came from else where (Abbasids had Tiberian and Khwaresm heavy cavalry)
Last Slaves.
An extra part of units are the naval crews but the game has not active ships. So the units like the crossbowmen are actually naval units recruitable from port.
In TGC 0.98C that will be released you will see the realy complicated Islamic recruitment system.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hello Jurand, I see things that question me in the images above: it is about the composition of the Abbasid army.
How is it that a Middle Eastern army has so many units from Western Europe?
Among other things, I see javelins from the Iberian Peninsula. Is it an army of mercenaries recruited there?

As you see, the Empire of Abbassids in this game (it's @minhnd6789 game) stretches from Scotland to Halych to Marv to Cairo to Tunis and finally to Murcia. They indeed can recruit mercenaries (Merc Crossbowmen / Spearmen, Javelinnmen and Analdous Javelinnment in Spain) in all these regions, and also local troops (like Hunters).

[kostic]

The map is a little small for me to analyze it well, but so that's what I thought...
We can say that our friend has completely rewritten history ! And in a relatively short time since he was able to achieve these conquests in 70 years. I guess he chose medium difficulty.

[j.a.luna]

Sship developers, Have you thought about improving the Italian unit rosters in general?
For example I think it would be historic, that Pisa, Venice and to a lesser extent the Sicilians and the Crusader states could recruit the sailors/marinae unit in their ports, along with more militia units of crossbowmen and urban militia in their barracks for the maritime republics, also create a generic marine infantry unit for these factions that can be recruited in these ports, simulating the importance that some medieval naval battles and their boardings had (battle of La Rochelle), even for Aragonese, French and Castilians (fight for the Mediterranean ).
As well as the proposal that I made some time ago about improving the regional building of "Italian trade quarters".
As well as creating a unique improvement for Venice focusing on its naval power and its colonizing projection, for example in its famous port of "Arsenale di Venecia" (https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_de_Venecia) a unique improvement for its ports with the ability to recruit marinae, marine infantry and much more galleys of low cost war...and a lot of trade and income.
Also regarding the famous Genoese crossbowmen, I think they should be a recruitable AOR unit in Genoa and perhaps its surroundings, and also as mercenaries around the Italian zones.
I leave you the link of the Italian proposals that I made a long time ago in case you want to improve them before releasing the new version.
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...mp-Pisa)/page2

[Jurand of Cracow]

Sship developers, Have you thought about improving the Italian unit rosters in general?
For example I think it would be historic, that Pisa, Venice and to a lesser extent the Sicilians and the Crusader states could recruit the sailors/marinae unit in their ports, along with more militia units of crossbowmen and urban militia in their barracks for the maritime republics, also create a generic marine infantry unit for these factions that can be recruited in these ports, simulating the importance that some medieval naval battles and their boardings had (battle of La Rochelle), even for Aragonese, French and Castilians (fight for the Mediterranean ).
As well as the proposal that I made some time ago about improving the regional building of "Italian trade quarters".
As well as creating a unique improvement for Venice focusing on its naval power and its colonizing projection, for example in its famous port of "Arsenale di Venecia" (https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_de_Venecia) a unique improvement for its ports with the ability to recruit marinae, marine infantry and much more galleys of low cost war...and a lot of trade and income.
Also regarding the famous Genoese crossbowmen, I think they should be a recruitable AOR unit in Genoa and perhaps its surroundings, and also as mercenaries around the Italian zones.
I leave you the link of the Italian proposals that I made a long time ago in case you want to improve them before releasing the new version.
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...mp-Pisa)/page2

I'm a bit sceptical about the very unit(s) of Marinea. I think it's unhistorical to use more such units in the land warfare.
Arsenale di Venetia will be a unique building for the Italian Traders regional building tree. But it needs time to be developed.
I share your opinion on the Genoese Crossbowmen.

[j.a.luna]

I'm a bit sceptical about the very unit(s) of Marinea. I think it's unhistorical to use more such units in the land warfare.
Arsenale di Venetia will be a unique building for the Italian Traders regional building tree. But it needs time to be developed.
I share your opinion on the Genoese Crossbowmen.

Yes but it is true that sea troops or medieval marines they served as support in the land armies or as guards of the settlements like the Byzantine Gasmuli or Tzaskones who served in the royal navy and even became palace guards
On the other hand it's nice to know that you are working on the Italian regional buildings and the Arsenale in Venice!
I think the Genoese crossbowmen can be changed in their recruitment as AOR...

[Mattus]

I noticed that the graphical rosters of the Muslim factions are very basic, it would be nice if you could implement them with some touches taken from other examples: Broken Crescent or MM:1191 which are well done.

https://www.moddb.com/mods/a-medieva...-update-coming

[j.a.luna]

I noticed that the graphical rosters of the Muslim factions are very basic, it would be nice if you could implement them with some touches taken from other examples: Broken Crescent or MM:1191 which are well done.

https://www.moddb.com/mods/a-medieva...-update-coming

Really good units from 1191 mod!!! but i think that is a little copy of sship, dont you?