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Thread: UNITS ROSTERS discussion

  1. #721

    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    I'd keep them because they can be used as offensive weapons and defensive weapons during sieges as they were in reality and even if not accurate. I like to see walls falling with enemy units on them
    But that's what trebuchets are for aren't they? Mangonels can't actually break down walls (rocket launchers are also similarly useless for both anti-infantry and breaking walls).

  2. #722
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Not all factions can recruit trebuchets if I remember correctly. And mangomels should be able to damage walls. There might be something wrong here
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  3. #723

    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Sship developers, about new factions unit rosters exist some preview or information?
    For example whats factions are planned to improve? In general all or byzantines, scottish, muslims...
    Is planned add new units? Or maybe new units models for the old vainilla models?( Magyar cavalry, saxon huskarls, normans spearmen...)
    What units are planned for remove?For example exist the unit of elephants, but have cannons or fireguns because these units are for the old faction of timurids(Timujin), maybe is possible make a remake of this unit put archers instead of fireguns and hire as mercenaries in south Africa( near to the last city of egiptians)
    Same for units that appear in very late game...
    Also if you need i can offer information about possible new units or remake new models. I dont know who is the manager or responsible of make new unit rosters in the mod...
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  4. #724
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    No, not for now.
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  5. #725

    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Hello sship team, talking about new unit roster and maybe AOR units in the next release i propose a issue about the current building of mercenary barrack... I think that these buildings could be in many settlements for hire local mercenaries without you have to get out of settlement with your general and have the local units of this region as mercenaries for your army, also make 3 levels of building for this with benefits and detriments, for example( we suppose that we have in the settlement of Wales:
    *1 level:mercenary outpost,you can recruit one local unit mercenaries, in this case Welsh longbowmen( early era and they were the first people in use longbow, so if you want longbowmen in early era you need conquest this region, more flavour for the game and realistic), with malus of -5% of order public because mercenaries and soldiers doing riots and problems...

    *2 level:mercenary campsite, you can recruit two or three mercenary units with one trained unit for one unit(chevron) with two recruitable slots for first unit and the rest unit only one...2 recruitable Welsh longbowmen with one 1 experience point, 1 welsh spearmen, 1 mercenary macemen, -10% public order, increase trade goods
    *3 level :mercenary barracks... 3 welsh longbowmen and 2 welsh spearmen with 1 experience point, 1 macemen, 1 mercenary spearmen, 1 mercenary crossbowmen, -15% public order, more increase trade goods
    This is a idea as a building to hire special mercenaries from each region for all factions that have that settlement, with improvements of units trained in the last levels and having common mercenary units at the highest levels as well as negative effects for the public order (due to soldiers' altercations) but with commercial benefits (for the expense they made in taverns, lodgings and purchase of material)
    So you will obtain local units in all regions( AOR system) for all factions, only have these units in this building of this settlement, maybe in more regions, and increase the importance of have this building and conquest specific settlements if you want to have special units for your faction, and the rest of general units is only for your faction... Is illogical make black guard unit in Scotland when you are moors and build local guard in this settlement...
    So maybe is a solution for this problem of unit rosters
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  6. #726
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    I don't think that mercenaries were hired through a kind of "employment agency" during the Middle Ages actually. From my opinion, this kind of barrack is fully inaccurate. I won't implement an AoR system based on such feature. And to be honest, I'm even thinking to remove that kind of buildings.
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  7. #727

    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    I don't think that mercenaries were hired through a kind of "employment agency" during the Middle Ages actually. From my opinion, this kind of barrack is fully inaccurate. I won't implement an AoR system based on such feature. And to be honest, I'm even thinking to remove that kind of buildings.
    Ook i dont know if this building is historically correct but for hire mercenaries in middle ages what was the best or common form? And a possible idea for hire local troops of a region for all factions? I think that this form is easier and save time but if is not historical i prefer the true form
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  8. #728

    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Talking about missile unit type, i would like talk about archers and crossbowmen...write about use archers and crossbowmen, turns for recruitment, costs and places for recruit them
    You know that in middle ages crossbow it was a very cheap and easy to produce weapon, in addition to being easily used without much training by militiamen and peasants and used many times in city defenses, its use was so common and the ease with which a simple peasant could kill a fully equipped knight with many years of combat experience, that the Pope himself wanted to ban the use of such a weapon ...
    therefore ... Crossbowmen: they should be able to be recruited only in cities as urban militia of crossbowmen, for cities of level 3 (minor city / stone wall), 1 only time shift to recruit them, great capacity to replace them and low cost and maintenance
    For archers should be recruited in the archery of the castles, with a minimum of 2 shifts to recruit them (levy archers) more cost and maintenance, they would have more range, faster to throw arrows and something better to attack (that you should decide) better troops most cost and time for recruitment
    Therefore we would see more crossbowmen in the game and fewer archers in addition to valuing them more
    I think it's something historical and real for the game
    Later I will talk about some units that could be eliminated because they are almost repeated and thus have more space for the units.
    Last edited by j.a.luna; October 08, 2019 at 03:01 AM.
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  9. #729
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    It is true that at the moment the crossbowmen have a greater firing distance than the peasant archers. Is this realistic ?
    I find the game however quite well balanced between crossbowmen and archers. It seems to me that at the beginning of the campaign the crossbowmen are already very present.
    There are actually some units that double and take the place of possible units more specific to a faction. It will be a big job to make an enlightened triad that does not imbalance the chances of each faction !

  10. #730

    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Quote Originally Posted by kostic View Post
    It is true that at the moment the crossbowmen have a greater firing distance than the peasant archers. Is this realistic ?
    I find the game however quite well balanced between crossbowmen and archers. It seems to me that at the beginning of the campaign the crossbowmen are already very present.
    There are actually some units that double and take the place of possible units more specific to a faction. It will be a big job to make an enlightened triad that does not imbalance the chances of each faction !
    Yees for example, in my campaign with Regnum Norman-Anglorum i have only archers in my settlements ( archers militia in cities and archers and levy archers in castles) but i can not recruit any crossbowmen for this faction, only is possible recruit mercenary crossbowmen outside of cities, i think that is unhistorical, i know that english armies used a lot of archers but is logical that militia crossbowmen is possible recruit in cities( cheaper and fast recruit troops) and archers troops train in archerys and maybe english faction with a "plus" in archer troops, make english archer unit with better stats or in more experience in english settlements( british isles) something for more unique faction
    Also welsh longbowmen should be recruitable in Wales settlement at the beginning of the game as local and mercenary troops due to This weapon is recorded for the first time in the British Isles when used by the Welsh in 633. Offrid, the son of Edwino de Deira, king of Northumbria, was killed by an arrow shot from a long Welsh bow during a battle between Welsh and Mercians, more than five centuries before any record of their military use in England
    So if you conquest the castle in Welsh region you obtain welsh longbowmen and after you can recruit mercenaries in these lands
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  11. #731
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Why mercenaries should be recruitable only after the region has been conquered? Doesn't sound accurate either

    Any record of English using crossbows in a significant manner?
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  12. #732
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Lifth,

    I have done some initial checks and found that the English on the whole used Archers, as you know William The Conqueror brought Archers to the Battle of Hastings in 1066 and used to good effect against Harold's forces. In the wars with Wales, led by Owain Glyndwr, the English Army was Men At Arms and Longbowmen that had been recruited from lands friendly to the English. Please feel free to have a look at the Battle of Pilleth, where the opposing sides attacked each other with Bows. Infact by this period the English Army did not use Cavarly, purely relying on the Longbow and Men At Arms.

    On my visit to Castles in Great Britain and their museums, I have seen Crossbows exhibited, but no reference to the use of them in battle in any numbers, to the best of my knowledge the Longbow was king on the battlefield as far as the English were concerned. Did you know that in medieval times the men in the village had to attend for archery practice every Sunday, this law has not been repealed since, therefore the local vicar can still call them out!!!!





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  13. #733
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    We want pics of you with a bow on next Sunday then.

    On a serious note, many thanks to confirm what I was actually guessing. I think that England shouldn't be able to recruit crossbowmen on their insular main lands. On the others (on the main land, Normandy and Mayenne), it should be only mercenaries. Everywhere else, that could also be part of an AoR system. From my opinion, that's a good way to keep England uniqueness.
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  14. #734
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Suppose the English can not recruit militia crossbowmen, which seems debatable to me, but what do you think of this part of the remark j.a.luna ?

    In addition, Welsh archers should be able to be recruited into the Wales colonies early in the game as local and mercenary troops. This weapon is recorded for the first time in the British Isles when used by the Welsh in 633. Offrid, son of Edwino de Deira, King of Northumbria, was killed by an arrow from a long Welsh bow during of a battle between the Welsh and the Mercian, more than five centuries before their military use in England is documented
    So, if you conquer the castle in the Welsh region, you get long Welsh archers and then you can recruit mercenaries on those lands.

  15. #735
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Quote Originally Posted by kostic View Post
    Suppose the English can not recruit militia crossbowmen, which seems debatable to me, but what do you think of this part of the remark j.a.luna ?
    I think that all has been answered already.
    For the 1st part of your post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Navajo Joe View Post
    (...) On my visit to Castles in Great Britain and their museums, I have seen Crossbows exhibited, but no reference to the use of them in battle in any numbers, to the best of my knowledge the Longbow was king on the battlefield as far as the English were concerned. Did you know that in medieval times the men in the village had to attend for archery practice every Sunday, this law has not been repealed since, therefore the local vicar can still call them out!!!!

    For the 2nd one: j.a.luna remark included more conditions and my answer war:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Why mercenaries should be recruitable only after the region has been conquered? Doesn't sound accurate either
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; October 10, 2019 at 02:23 AM.
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  16. #736

    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Navajo Joe View Post
    On my visit to Castles in Great Britain and their museums, I have seen Crossbows exhibited, but no reference to the use of them in battle in any numbers, to the best of my knowledge the Longbow was king on the battlefield as far as the English were concerned.
    The longbow was more widely used in England, but there is evidence of demand and use of crossbows. They were widely used by Henry II and Richard I, and even after the archery laws Edward I ordered a number of crossbows be made on more than one occasion, and they were reportedly used at Bannockburn.

    See https://www.jstor.org/stable/4006058...n_tab_contents for more details.

    The simple fact is that whilst the longbow was a superior weapon, this was only the case in the hands of a skilled, and sufficiently strong, person. Even with endless training, some people would simply lack the strength, and length of arms, to draw them fully. So crossbows were (and should arguably be) used by the English to supplement the less numerous longbowmen until the population as a whole was large and strong (i.e. well fed) enough to support a pure longbow army. In fact, crossbows were actively banned in England in 1508 to encourage the longbow, indicating that they must have been used enough before this point to warrant being banned.

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...banned&f=false

    This would tend to indicate the English should have militia crossbowmen as their lowest level archery units. After all, there's no record of the English ever using any drawn bow, other than a longbow, with any great significance. So why would they have low quality untrained levy archers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navajo Joe View Post
    Did you know that in medieval times the men in the village had to attend for archery practice every Sunday, this law has not been repealed since, therefore the local vicar can still call them out!!!!
    That's an urban myth. The law was repealed in Victorian times, as part of the repealing of the prohibitions on playing other kinds of sport in favour of archery.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...8450109_en.pdf

  17. #737
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    So, they should get (limited?) access to the lower quality crossbowmen units to reflect that they could use it but on the other hand it wasn't considered as a good weapon
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  18. #738
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    The good idea would be to replace peasant archers with a more generic term such as "shooters". The first level would be composed of crossbowmen and their upgrade would become archers ?

  19. #739
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    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    I don't think so because it would represent archers as an evolution of crossbowmen. They are truly 2 different kind of units.
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  20. #740

    Default Re: NEW FACTIONS UNITS ROSTERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    I think that all has been answered already.
    For the 1st part of your post:



    For the 2nd one: j.a.luna remark included more conditions and my answer war:
    Yes, i wannna say when yoy conquest the castle of Kaerenarvon( Welsh region) you obtain access to recruit the welsh longbowmen unit in archery building( local units) at the beginning of the game, and maybe after in some turns you can recruit as mercenaries in this region( maybe after huskarls units dissapear of the english lands)
    All this is for make more flavour in the game when you conquest some lands or regions, if you want unique units and special units( not generic) need to take some regions for include these units in your army ( maybe as mercenaries or local units)
    For this reason is make new unit rosters and specially some ''minor factions" than can not be represented in the game for medieval 2 limited engine... For example the bulgarians, the kurdishs, prussian or baltic tribes, bohemian units...
    In the current game is well represented the berbers tribes with 4 units( berber archers, berber javelinmen, berber cavalry, berber pikemen(questionable unit) and lamtuna spearmen that should be called berber spearmen), same for armenians, alanis, and african units...
    In this page contains a lot of information about medieval armies and units for differents factions
    https://arrecaballo.es/edad-media/

    Also when have better internet and time i will expose some ideas about generic unit rosters for europeans and muslims
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