Idea- 750 AD total war!!!

**C.Maximus** · June 04, 2015, 10:10 PM

The more I play Attila Total war (So far one of my favorite total wars being a huge fan of the time period, units and factions) I get the itch to continue my campaigns into the dark ages. During my Saxon campaign when I relocated my faction to England and took control over it I realized this would be a good starting point for a Dark Age campaign. Yes the world is in a different place but a lot of the same factions can be used by changing them and advancing them 300 years in the future. More Dark Age weaponry and armor from the Franks and Saxons... conversion to Christianity and a loss of the tech tree going back and reinventing the wheel almost. 780 the Vikings can become a major threat from the north while the rest of the world deals with Muslim invaders in Spain and Italy. The Arabs can start out with different puppet states to resemble their vast but unstable empire....

For Factions we will have something to the likes of this...

Celtic Kingdoms
Irish Kingdom- starts Pagan(new to Christianity) with Celtic culture
Kingdom of Scotti- starts Pagan(new to Christianity) with Celtic culture as well.
Picts- Pagan- Celtic culture

Saxon Kingdoms
Mercia- Latin Christian- Biggest and most powerful Saxon Kingdom in England.
Northumbria- Latin Christian- Bordering Scotts they will have to make friends down south
Wessex- Latin Christian- South Western corner of England
Sussex - Latin Christian- Eastern shore of England.

France
Kingdom of the Franks- Latin Christian... What else is there to say about the Kingdom of the Franks, the dark ages in a nut shell...
Burgundy- Latin Christian- Gothic Roots.

Vikings
Danes- Pagan- Holding the peninsula the Danes have a good vantage point for naval invasions
Norwegians- Pagan- tucked away in the frozen North, their food supply is threatened so they must make plans to expand.
Swedes or 'Gotar' (As we don't really have Sweden I believe the Gotar clan was further south)- Pagan-

Italy
Lombard Kingdom- Latin Christian- Invading Germans
Byzantine Empire Expansion- Greek christian (Not a separate faction from Byzantine Empire)

Spain
Kingdom of Basques- Small kingdom in the Pyrenees mountains it holds against the Muslim invasions.
Kingdom of Asturias- What would become part of the Kingdom of Spain they too must hold against Muslim invaders and take the Peninsula for themselves.
Moorish Caliph- As a puppet state of the Arab Caliph they bring the wrath of Islam to Spain.

Central Europe
Slavs- Large tribal based power in Central Europe. They can either be horded or rule a decent expanse of land with smaller settlements (all tier 1 or something)
Bulgars- Another tribal based culture in the Balkans next to the black sea. Would be cool to start as horde and eventually become the Kingdom of Bulgaria however starting like the Slavs with a few smaller settlements would work.
Avars- A strong Germanic tribal power in modern day Austria/Hungry. They should have some settlements and their bigger settlements can start a bit bigger then say the Slavs.
Saxons- Germanic tribe who did not go with their comrades to the British Islands. Related to the Saxons of England.
Balkan Clans- Generic Balkan clans can over here.. I am not sure too much about them in this time period.
Magyars- Horde based nomads who can eventually settle in Hungry.

(Central Europe should be sort of a barbaric mess with nomadic tribes, Germanic kingdoms and Balkan/Slavic peoples migrating down, A good chunk of this can be taken by the Franks to represent the Eastern Frankish kingdom.)

Africa

-Moors(Puppet State of Caliph) – They will have modern day Morocco, Most of Spain, and some of North Africa. It may not be historic to have them as a Puppet kingdom but it was not long after this time that the Caliph empire broke up into smaller sultanates.
-Fatimid Caliph (Another puppet state) These guys will be based in Egypt and give them Libya all the way to Carthage as well. They will be (as they were historically) the most powerful sultanate that broke from the empire.
-Nubia-(south of Egypt) Desert kingdom to the south of the Nile.
-Ethiopia- A Desert kingdom beneath Nubia.
(The Moors and Fatimid caliph are meant to weaken the Caliph empire that stretched so far. Historically they did become independent and powerful on their own so it makes sense for them to be separate factions so they have the possibility to rebel)

Middle East
-Arabian Caliph or Umayyad Caliphate…. They will be the powerhouse of this mod but in a weakening state as they will have puppet states who can turn on them at the drop of a dime.
-Byzantine Empire- late ERE empire… we all know these guys.
-Oman Sultanate- Not sure if they are a sultanate right now…. But they are not a part of the Caliph…
-Kingdom of Armenia (Puppet state of Caliph… can eventually become Christian)
-Emirate of Monsul- another Puppet state to give problems for the Caliph)
-Emirate of Azerbaijan- Another troublesome puppet state ready to rebel
- Saminid Emirate- Start these guys off as non-aggressive to the caliph but eventually they will have the opportunity to bring Persian glory back to the middle east as the Khwarizm Shah.
- Kingdom of Yemen- another independent Arab kingdom on the Peninsula.

(the Arabian or Umayyad Caliph will have control over Arabia/ Syria/ Palestine/ Mesopotamia/ Persian gulf... all other territories can be represented with puppet states so that this one faction does not rule all of the land in the middle east… Yes the names are advanced in the future about 100 or so years but I do not know what else to call them… “Armenia” might be more historic than the “kingdom of Armenia” as perhaps say “Emirate of Monsul” just “Monsul” or something I do not know.. That is what CA did with the Sassanid puppets. Any advice on how to do this more properly is appreciated. )

Russia
Russia at this time was filled with Generic eastern Slavic/Balkan tribes. This land is perfect for being eventually settled by the Vikings and creating the Rus people and kingdom of Rus.. As for existing factions to put here CA has plenty of Slavic/Germanic generic tribes with some name shuffling can fit. With this time period and this area especially we have to guess a bit. IF anyone has more info on it id be open.
The Khazars too.. maybe the ancestors of the Ukrainian kingdoms.. (though as the Rus, didnt the Ukrainian kingdoms come from the vikings too)

750 AD IMO is a great time for a Total war game. You have the kingdoms of England battling over the Islands. You have the Viking invasion of England/France as well as the settling of the Rus country. You have the Frankish Kingdom on the brink of invading the East and becoming the Frankish Empire… You have the Byzantine Empire trying to retake the Western Roman territories. You have the Spanish kingdoms holding off the Muslims invading from Morocco. You have the Caliph power struggle and the independence of many Sultanates and Emirates in the Middle East. Central/Eastern Europe is a

show of tribal peoples and barbaric kingdoms who have the chance to become a nation (Like Bulgaria). You have a small Persian kingdom who can at the right time strike the Arabs and take back modern day Iran (and perhaps more if the player chooses) reinstating Persian supremacy into the region. The only religion that needs to be added is Islam. All and all I think Attila has a perfect stepping stone for a mod like this.. I am not saying someone –SHOULD- make this mod but it is an idea I have been working on and perhaps a team of modders would see this as an opportunity.

**Kamov Isaov** · June 05, 2015, 04:44 AM

Is good but Id rather see Neolithic total war

**stalker33** · June 05, 2015, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by C.Maximus

Russia
Russia at this time was filled with Generic eastern Slavic/Balkan tribes. This land is perfect for being eventually settled by the Vikings and creating the Rus people and kingdom of Rus.. As for existing factions to put here CA has plenty of Slavic/Germanic generic tribes with some name shuffling can fit. With this time period and this area especially we have to guess a bit. IF anyone has more info on it id be open.
The Khazars too.. maybe the ancestors of the Ukrainian kingdoms.. (though as the Rus, didnt the Ukrainian kingdoms come from the vikings too)

Please do not say "ukrainian kingdom". i am ukrainian by myself, but using this word is a pure anachronism. even the "Rus kingdom" (do you mean the kievan Rus period?) is a bit too early for a campaign that is starting in 750 AD. also, Russia was filled with slavic and finno-ugric tribes, aswell as the nomads in the steppe territory, and not Balkan tribes

I really like the idea of creating a new start point. if it is 530, 602, 634 or 750 - it doesn't metter.

**C.Maximus** · June 05, 2015, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by stalker33

Please do not say "ukrainian kingdom". i am ukrainian by myself, but using this word is a pure anachronism. even the "Rus kingdom" (do you mean the kievan Rus period?) is a bit too early for a campaign that is starting in 750 AD. also, Russia was filled with slavic and finno-ugric tribes, aswell as the nomads in the steppe territory, and not Balkan tribes

I really like the idea of creating a new start point. if it is 530, 602, 634 or 750 - it doesn't metter.

Ya the reason i said that was it is way too early for keiven rus and i assumed the colonies formed by the vikings were small kingdoms that poped up and eventually became keiven rus and Novgorod republic in 1100... Honestly i do not know who was in this area before the rus came... But sorry i did not mean one ukranian kingdom and was using "Ukranian" in purely a regional sense. Maybe Kingdoms is a bad choice of words too, small colonies rather... Cities like Kiev and Novgorod became overly powerful I assume and started countries that could compete with the western european kingdoms.

I assume the area too is filled with steppe tribes so its a good place to have hordes like perhaps the khazars?

But yes I think any of the dates you gave are good for a dark age campaign. 750 for some reason seemed just right for me when it comes to Total War.. Especially a Frank campaign.

**stalker33** · June 05, 2015, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by C.Maximus

Ya the reason i said that was it is way too early for keiven rus and i assumed the colonies formed by the vikings were small kingdoms that poped up and eventually became keiven rus and Novgorod republic in 1100... Honestly i do not know who was in this area before the rus came... But sorry i did not mean one ukranian kingdom and was using "Ukranian" in purely a regional sense. Maybe Kingdoms is a bad choice of words too, small colonies rather... Cities like Kiev and Novgorod became overly powerful I assume and started countries that could compete with the western european kingdoms.

I assume the area too is filled with steppe tribes so its a good place to have hordes like perhaps the khazars?

But yes I think any of the dates you gave are good for a dark age campaign. 750 for some reason seemed just right for me when it comes to Total War.. Especially a Frank campaign.

Who are the Rus is arguably. the popular idea (especially in the west) says they were vikings, others think they were slavic or another folk on the baltic coast. however it is not relevant. before them the area was populated by: west slavic tribes as the polans, moraves, slovaks, etc (which would one day became the countries we know today). to the east-north there were the baltic tribes as lithuanians. the area of modern Russia, Ukraine, Belarus was populated by many eastern slavic tribes such as Krivichi, Viatichi, Severians, Drevlians etc. north and east of them there were the finno-ugric people, though the map in Attila does not go that far.
The first capital of the Rus was in Novgorod, and a strong and centralized state with Kiev in it rised in the second part of the 9th century. just for your knowledge the first massive attack of the Rus (not just slavic, but Rus) on the Byzantine Empire happened in 860 AD.
The khazars at 750 ceased to be a horde. at best they were semi-horde if not pure a state fighting with the arabs. the hordes are the Magyars, Pechenegs and maybe Volga Bulgarians at the most eastern part of the map