Politeia tōn Hrōmaiōn (info and units)

[Lifthrasir]

Reputation has a higher importance now and it's very difficult to keep it good. Release prisoners might help. May be gifts (not sure about that one).
Then, about unrest, yes you will need to deal carefully with that. Sacking or exterminating should stay your last option. Try to just occupy the newly conquered settlement with a general with high chivalry (or high dread can't remember now ), full stack for the start. Destroy all buildings, or most of them at least, which bring unrest and built in priority those who bring happiness. It's quite a long process but unrest should become better with the time being.

[Dekhatres]

Reputation has a higher importance now and it's very difficult to keep it good. Release prisoners might help. May be gifts (not sure about that one).
Then, about unrest, yes you will need to deal carefully with that. Sacking or exterminating should stay your last option. Try to just occupy the newly conquered settlement with a general with high chivalry (or high dread can't remember now ), full stack for the start. Destroy all buildings, or most of them at least, which bring unrest and built in priority those who bring happiness. It's quite a long process but unrest should become better with the time being.

i think reputation is not worthwhile overall, it limits expansion a lot and does not give any equally important benefit, you can sit there and take 1 settlement every 20-30 turns to keep rep good or you could go ahead and build an empire in that time, well, i for one will always choose a huge powerfull empire over good rep

[vic_chan666]

The money from sacking a Citadel like Kaysari is around 30k. In my case, i needed the cash very badly so i wans't even a option

If I'm not mistaken, reputation affects your relation with the factions around, so the problem is that asking for peace deals is harder now, even if its say" very generous" they prob won't accept the deal if you have bad rep, and as the guy said it's realy hard to keep it decent.

Overal the plagues\rebels and unrest are amazing it's great to have internal problems. The emmerging faction are greeeeeeeat too. This was the best MTW2 mod that i played till now.

My only suggestion for a future release\hotfix is to decrease the penality for sacking a little, or at least increasing the effect of realising prisionners (It dosn't help very much),

[Dekhatres]

The money from sacking a Citadel like Kaysari is around 30k. In my case, i needed the cash very badly so i wans't even a option

If I'm not mistaken, reputation affects your relation with the factions around, so the problem is that asking for peace deals is harder now, even if its say" very generous" they prob won't accept the deal if you have bad rep, and as the guy said it's realy hard to keep it decent.

Overal the plagues\rebels and unrest are amazing it's great to have internal problems. The emmerging faction are greeeeeeeat too. This was the best MTW2 mod that i played till now.

My only suggestion for a future release\hotfix is to decrease the penality for sacking a little, or at least increasing the effect of realising prisionners (It dosn't help very much),

i just conquered Kaysari and the sacking loot was 15k, occupy 5k, it's very early in the game so i guess why income is lower, besides i am vassal of byzzies so no point in storing large amounts of money since they will take a chunk

[Novgorodian Nark]

Is it possible to add the voices from Rome 1 to the Byzantines in Medieval 2?

it would be a massive improvement on their character,
i love byzantium, but the spanglish voice of the generals especially are really off putting.

[Alavaria]

If I'm not mistaken, reputation affects your relation with the factions around, so the problem is that asking for peace deals is harder now, even if its say" very generous" they prob won't accept the deal if you have bad rep, and as the guy said it's realy hard to keep it decent.

It's not that bad, I've sat at the worst reputation level and managed to get ceasefires, alliances, marriage alliances and so on.

It's really a matter of applying gold properly. It helps a lot to just gift gold to raise relationship, and THEN ask for the alliance etc (much cheaper too). Now for ceasefire, if you are already massacring everyone (and yes, executing prisoners so the enemy has no army) it isn't that hard to ceasefire... though if you're already beating them up then well...

[Hanti]

Too bad this faction is still (as of version SSHIP v0.9 - 19th of January 2016) called incorrectly.

It's Basileia ton Romaion / Basileia tōn Rōmaiōn

(not Rhomaion as in mod) = Kingdom/Empire of Romans - not Rhomans

[Lifthrasir]

Thanks for pointing this out. I'll correct that

[Hanti]

Thanks for pointing this out. I'll correct that

Hm... if you like, you can also edit Byzantine army to Roman army (navy, diplomat) as we all know there were no Byzantines at all.

{EMT_BYZANTIUM_CITY}City - Basileía tōn Rōmaíōn
{EMT_BYZANTIUM_DIPLOMAT}Roman Diplomat
or better
{EMT_BYZANTIUM_CITY}Roman City
{EMT_BYZANTIUM_DIPLOMAT}Roman Diplomat

No problems with another "Roman" faction (Imperium Romanum) as their assets are "Imperial".

[AnthoniusII]

Too bad this faction is still (as of version SSHIP v0.9 - 19th of January 2016) called incorrectly.

It's Basileia ton Romaion / Basileia tōn Rōmaiōn

(not Rhomaion as in mod) = Kingdom/Empire of Romans - not Rhomans

In fact Hanti YOU ARE WRONG.
Letter h added in Latin languages to allow the better pronounce of exclusive Hellenistic letters like Φ (PH),Ω (OH)etc ...
Actually the name of the Empire in reality was Politeia Thon Rhomeaon (gr: Πολιτεία τών Ρωμαίων).
The greek B is actually V in latin.
So Vasileia thon Rhomaeon (Gr: Βασιλεία τών Ρωμαίων).
But since so many h letters look bizzare in a centence many people simply REPLACE hellenistic letters with Latin ones confussing people.
My name is Anthonios aka in greek Αντώνιος ... Greek/Hellenic/Hellenistic language is hard to learn...

[Lifthrasir]

Thanks for your input Anthonius. Really appreciated

So to summarize, the faction's name doesn't need to be changed. What about the other proposal, replacing "Byzantine" by "Roman"? Byzantine word is not accurate as actually used from the 19th century if I remember correctly. But on the other hand, does "Roman" fit better?
As far as I know, these people considered themselves more as Greeks than as Romans.

[AnthoniusII]

Well every way you will write it people will accept it.
Latin origin languages have very limited ways to express the vocal way of writing of languages like the Hellenic one and its versions through the time.
If you would like to be kind of more accurate you should chose the name Politeia ton Romaeon (without too many h) simply because that was the way Middle Ages Romans called their state.
Here is the original writting of Leonis Imperatoris Tactica by Emperor Leon VI


The underlined sentences say the exact way they called their state.
"State of the Romans" Romaeon Politeia or Politeia ton Romeaon.

About the missunderstanding.
The Empire had numerus nations in its body.
Greeks
Armenians
Arabs
Jews
African tribes/nations
Persians
Caucasians
Bulgarians
Slavic people
Cappadocians
Isaurians
and many others.
All of them were STILL Roman Citizens. All citizens when they were healthy and Orthodox Christians could become Emperors.
Now...Nation by nation , people left the Empire because or border changes, religion changes and by choice.
Its a myth that nationalism created after the French revolution.
Infact western people of Germanic tribal origin "found" nationalism. But people in the old world knew what they were. Armenians knew for thousands of years that they were Armenians, Arabs, Persians and so on.
Greeks were THE LAST nation that NEVER LOST ITS ROMAN CITIZENSHIP to the end of the Empire's existance.
In fact modern Lybians can claim a Roman heritage from modern northern Italians because nothern Italians are of germanic origin that never HAD the Roman Citizenship.
So in conclusion. Greeks embraced hard the Roman citizenship in the stage to define them selves as Romioi (Romans) even today. For them Roman citizenship is separated from their Hellenic Nation ((Ethnos/ethnicity).
THE LAST ROMAN CITIZENS WERE THE GREEKS. In middle ages they are still known to Arabs as RUM (Romans) and the same time as Junan(Ionians aka Greeks).

EDIT:
I saw a recent video of an Egyptian Islamic Priest talking about the myth that Rums (Romans) will rise of their ashes and SAVE THE WORLD from the ultimate disaster.

[Lifthrasir]

Right, so it will be Politeía tōn Rōmaíōn for the faction's name and Roman instead Byzantine

Many thanks Anthonius

[nikossaiz]

Firstly, congrattulations for thiw wonderfull mod, i played DLV mod for years and now that i came back to medieval 2 i found your mod one that it is on the same high level. I also feel proude that i cotributed a little bit to it with my shields, when i find time i will make more patterns! now to the topic. At the time of the mod the eastern roman roster would be more like the one from the CBUR mod in order of appiarence than to what it is now ( they are looking cool though. But the models are from one - two centuries prior the started date of the mod ) For instance, almost all cavalry units using a round shield and not the famous "norman-byzantine one" like those of scoutatoi. And even scoutatoi, despite they are belong to a more uniform unit that other units of medieval era, should have a little variety on their shields, same colour different lines perhaps. something like this(?) that i used to work long ago. http://s583.photobucket.com/user/nik...sword.jpg.html

[Lifthrasir]

Thanks for your kind words nikossaiz, and thanks again to you for the permission of use for your shields models. I've merged your thread with this one to keep all relevant informations about that faction together

Regarding their roster, that's true that's there's still quite some work to be done to make it more accurate. We use the models from Caudillo87 due to a high demand by the past. However, as mentionned by their author himself, they're not accurate. So, any input is welcome
Anyway, regarding yours from the above post:
- noted for Scoutatoï. More shield variety needed.
- about cavalry shields: basically, we need to replace their round shield with norman style one, is that right? In that case, is there specific pattern or blasons suitable for them?

[nikossaiz]

The mod with the most precice unit roster for this faction is bellum crisis. A little bit more on the paleologian era but suits perfect for almost all the years after 1204. also i am not sure about the "archontopouloi" unit, formed only once and took place only for one battle. Maybe a clivanarii unit with bows will be better. And surely castrophilakes must be lighter than scoutatoi. Was a garrison unit after all. same stats as scoutatoi and then buff a little bit scoutatoi. Now about the scoutatoi, for sure more shield variety, as i said same colour with different stripe paterns like those from broken chresent mod ( mabe you can borrow them from there and enlarge them a bit ) and definately some of them must have schimitars, curved swords.

[Lifthrasir]

I copied some stuff I found on the web by the past about the faction (see here and posts below). It's quite detailed but focused on Komenian era. I'll have a look on Bellum Crisis. That might be a good complement for the roster after 1204 AD. Thanks for the tip

[Jurand of Cracow]

Given that not everybody reading this thread reads Sub-mod pages (my submod is here), I would like to ask in this thread following question:

What were the Greek words used in the Middle Ages for young men achieving certain levels of education. More-or-less equivalent of the Western Education in Latin:
Basic Administrative Education: Licentiate
Standard Administrative Education: Baccalaureus Artium
Advanced Administrative Education: Doctor Philosophiae

I understand the differences etc. etc., but more-or-less pls.

cheers in advance
JoC

[nikossaiz]

Ι found some of my old files about a few eastern roman empires units, better suited in the mods time frame and quite pleasing in the eye. I input them in my version without problems. If you are interesting in change the roster to a more reallistic one i would be happy to send you them and maybe input them to the next realise of the mod. Mostly are crossovers from various sources , russincki mod, broken crescent, from the georgian roster, and original from myself, like the shields from the real shield project.

[Lifthrasir]

That would be great. Thanks a lot