Politeia tōn Hrōmaiōn (info and units)

[Julianus Flavius]

You can report the crash here. With a bit of luck, we may fix it

Regarding the unrest, it works as intended somehow as we try to represent the succession issues that ERE suffered. It might need some adjustments through

I suspect it might be my fault, I've made a few changes to the tech tree and therefore you guys can't be expected to fix it.
As for the succession thing, the reason it's a problem is that I can't designate heirs properly. It's got to the point where every single new emperor is not descended from the last, even if the last one had eligible sons. I can see how the mechanic could be cool theoretically but it doesn't seem to work too well. Also prettymuch all my characters are boomer-tier old farts, there's not many decent candidates to start with. If I could just get a heir that isn't over 60 it'd be cool haha
In my next campaign I'll refuse adoptions and not marry off daughters so fast, it made my family tree bloated and difficult to manage.

[Lifthrasir]

Ok. I've noted that "issue" about the old FL. ERE is not the only faction having this weird problem. Anyway, remarks taken into account

[Julianus Flavius]

Ok. I've noted that "issue" about the old FL. ERE is not the only faction having this weird problem. Anyway, remarks taken into account

To be fair I should have paid more attention to my family tree early on. But it was early days and I needed more heavy cavalry at any cost so I just let anyone who wanted to join the family, then half of them didn't get much in the way of career promotions (no army commands, some of them not even governorships) so they had dodgy traits and no command, then as the empire grew these people became the mainstay of my ruling class and everything kinda fell apart even though I held half the Mediterranean.

[Crk416]

What late era units do the Romans have? Any gunpowder units? I always hated that you stagnant technology wise as the Byzantines even if you survive into the gunpowder era.

[Virian]

What late era units do the Romans have? Any gunpowder units? I always hated that you stagnant technology wise as the Byzantines even if you survive into the gunpowder era.

There are some mods that give you access to gunpowder from the merchants guild but to my knowledge not this mod, admitedely I just started playing it.. Also the Romans would be too OP if they also got a lot of those. The roman's greatest strength has and always will be in this game the massive economy which they get in the early game due to their (then) superior troops and potential to just drown the enemy in numbers in the late era. It's not historical? Hell yeah but the problem is that if this balancing wasn't made then the romans would just easily dominate as their main problems have always been infighting and the frankly huge number of enemies that wanted them dead and I you want people want full turkish stacks to start attacking early game only for you cities to start going rebel the moment you take out the governor.
Besides, lack of gunpowder not withstanding, their unit is great and Siphonatores are also a great equivalent unit for gunpowder.

[Jurand of Cracow]

One of the problems with historical modeling the ERE is the year we start: 1132. It's the moment of the biggest stability in the empire, late Ioannes rule. In the Broken Crescent starting 1174 you can make some problems to ERE (there's 4th crusade scripted, and perhaps also the inheritance of 1180 problems, iirc), but in the SSHIP - nothing like this. However, I'm not sure if the loyalty mechanism does not stop the ERE AI from growing too much, I've definitely seen it in the case of Kiev (ravaged by civil wars, as it should be historically)
I'd be happy if we'd improve starting positions of the high era (1236, iirc), but I don't anybody working on this. I recall the Serbians playing the role of the Bulgarians in this setting, but I have't run this for a long time.

[DRR7799]

I read the whole thread and didn't see a link anywhere. Are all of these skins in the SSHIP?

[Lifthrasir]

We're using the Caudillo87 units' models so far. Not especially accurate but graphically good
However, nikossaiz is working on new models but nothing has been released yet.

[nikossaiz]

Hello again. I am making the unit cards these days, when my little free time allows it. Then maybe A few changes on the banners and 2-3 specific captains and we are done. But I will like one more time, the last one, to discuss a little bit the roster. As for the final Roman roster I am suggesting the following. I have done all of them but I am open to final changes.

More over. Eastern roman empire was a state and not feudal perce. So I would like to be able to make reforms via a building and be able to change from the komnenian perspective to one like the thematicall system . Would be possible? Had been disgusted previously? Anyway till now


Infantry

1. Psiloi ( akonistes / toxotes ) 2. Scoutatoi hoplites( militia ) 3. Scoutatoi ( maledonika, thrakika, thessalika tagmata ) 4. Varagiani froura ( varangians ) 5. Peltastes 6. Vestiarites 7. Mourtatoi 8. Siphonatores 9. Gasmouloi 10. Menaulatoi (?)

Cavalry

1. Stratiotes ( small proniarioi ) 2. Cataphraktoi 3. Okioi ( bodyguards ) 4. Ippotoxotes ek trapezountas ( trepizond horse arcers ) 5. Latin pronoiarioi 6. Cuman pronoiarioi 7. Symachika tagmata or allagia ( serbians, Armenians, etch ) - should be also be the same unit as infantry ?8. Scythikoi

Mercenaries that can be recruited from east Roman faction on regular bases depended on buildings . 1. Tourkopoloi 2. Petzenegs 3. Alans 4. Saxon huscarls 5. midle late game Italian infantry ( Venetians mostly with polaxes and shields)

Questions. Should be an etairia as a separate regiment and if so What units should be in " etairia" ? Was infantry or cavalry? Or the units I suggest as roster covers the term etairia?

The cuman proniarioi what should have as weapons? I already have them a lance and axes or swords as second weapons.

Gasmouloi should be in, but as they are now I feel that make the Romans way all around. Should remain a good crossbow unit?

The short pike unit, menaulatoi was presented from the beginning on the komnenian armies though not in big numbers . Should be made way weaker, with only little armor and available from the start ? ( I'm aking this in order to change the models and textures on them, or remove them from the roster.

Cut from the roster.

Mounted acritae
Spatharioi tou vasileos
Cavallari
Alamanoi
Archontopouloi
Proniarioi

[VineFynn]

Hello again. I am making the unit cards these days, when my little free time allows it. Then maybe A few changes on the banners and 2-3 specific captains and we are done. But I will like one more time, the last one, to discuss a little bit the roster. As for the final Roman roster I am suggesting the following. I have done all of them but I am open to final changes.

More over. Eastern roman empire was a state and not feudal perce. So I would like to be able to make reforms via a building and be able to change from the komnenian perspective to one like the thematicall system . Would be possible? Had been disgusted previously? Anyway till now


Infantry

1. Psiloi ( akonistes / toxotes ) 2. Scoutatoi hoplites( militia ) 3. Scoutatoi ( maledonika, thrakika, thessalika tagmata ) 4. Varagiani froura ( varangians ) 5. Peltastes 6. Vestiarites 7. Mourtatoi 8. Siphonatores 9. Gasmouloi 10. Menaulatoi (?)

Cavalry

1. Stratiotes ( small proniarioi ) 2. Cataphraktoi 3. Okioi ( bodyguards ) 4. Ippotoxotes ek trapezountas ( trepizond horse arcers ) 5. Latin pronoiarioi 6. Cuman pronoiarioi 7. Symachika tagmata or allagia ( serbians, Armenians, etch ) - should be also be the same unit as infantry ?8. Scythikoi

Mercenaries that can be recruited from east Roman faction on regular bases depended on buildings . 1. Tourkopoloi 2. Petzenegs 3. Alans 4. Saxon huscarls 5. midle late game Italian infantry ( Venetians mostly with polaxes and shields)

Questions. Should be an etairia as a separate regiment and if so What units should be in " etairia" ? Was infantry or cavalry? Or the units I suggest as roster covers the term etairia?

The cuman proniarioi what should have as weapons? I already have them a lance and axes or swords as second weapons.

Gasmouloi should be in, but as they are now I feel that make the Romans way all around. Should remain a good crossbow unit?

The short pike unit, menaulatoi was presented from the beginning on the komnenian armies though not in big numbers . Should be made way weaker, with only little armor and available from the start ? ( I'm aking this in order to change the models and textures on them, or remove them from the roster.

Cut from the roster.

Mounted acritae
Spatharioi tou vasileos
Cavallari
Alamanoi
Archontopouloi
Proniarioi

Spartharoi never made sense to me as a unit choice. There were very few of them and you could only recruit them at Constantinople. Their stats never really seemed to match the supposed quality of their gear either.

[j.a.luna]

A question nikkosaiz, scoutatoi hoplites( spearmen) should be proffesional units,dont you? And you make 3 types of scoutatoi? Macedonika, tessalika and thrakika?
About spear militia for romans exist kontatiroi no?
Ablut menaulatoi( short pike unit) should be present at the beginning of the game and i think that minor stats for them maybe that you say less armour, exist in many documents about this pike roman unit in komnenian era and after
I think that cuman pronoriai should be mounted archers( cumans are stteppes units, with little axes as secondary weapons) but with the unit of Scythikoi( cumans, pechenegs and alans) is well represented in the game these mercenaries units,if not we would have 2 similar units for byzantines, or maybe you can use these cumans units as mercenaries in hungarians lands for factions that control these lands( hungarians, serbians, romans, maybe polands?)
You can post some images about these units for see the quality and historically correct?

[nikossaiz]

Hoplites is a general reference for the men that bearing arms. Usually was the counterterm for skoutatoi, but since skoutatos is also a generic term, i suggest the militias ( former contaratoi ) to be called hoplites, since they are allready quite armored for the era. So. Either we keep contaratoi as militias and scoutatoi as the front line infantry and make another unit "tagmata skoutatwn" that will represent the more professional natives from makedonia, thessaly and thrace . Two units, one carrying swords one spears as it is now

[nikossaiz]

So, we have
Pslioi ( akongistes, toxotes )
Hoplites ( or kontaratoi, or scoutatoi )
Scoutatoi ( with spears )
Tagmata scoutatwn ( or front line infantry, or heavy scoutatoi etch with swords ) i want them to be three units, makedoniko, thessailiko and thrakiko tagma, recruited only in their home lands, armed with swords. )
Varagiani froura ( or Varangians, or tauroskythes etch )
Mourtatoi
Peltastes
Vestiarites ( guard unit )
Siphonatores
Gasmouli
Menaulatoi
Sumachika tagmata ( serbians, armenias etch as scoutatoi swordsmen)

Cut : spatharioi tou vasileos, castrophilakes, alamanoi

Stratiotes
Ippotoxotes trapezountioi
Cuman pronoiars ( with lances )
Latin pronoiars
Scythikoi ( vardariotes, cumans and various steppe , not turk, horsearchers )
Cataphractoi
Ikioi ( generals bodyguards )

Cut: ippotoxotes, mounted acritae, archontopoula

Mercenaries recruited in regular bases. Tourkopoloi, italian infantry, petsenegs , alanoi, huscarls .

I have already made an early version of varangians with sword and one hand axe and shields. These, or huscarls?

[j.a.luna]

I think that gasmouli or mercenary italian crossbows( they were famous in middle ages for their good crossbowmen) should be recruitable in the building of italian trade quarters...
About huskarls they should be called mercenary anglo-saxon huskarls, due to they are recruitable in english lands and for byzantines in Constantinople as the early version of varangian guard, it is historically correct that varangian guard and elite tagmata of katafractorai with siphonatores and palace guard( vestiarites) were established in this city, not in other cities... So it is very important for byzantines preserve this place both for military importance and economic importance
Also anglo-saxon huskarls could be a new unit model, now in the current sship have a vainilla version of unit...

For other hand nikkosaizz, is planned implemented new units models for serbians and bulgarians in the next version of sship? They were pretty similar to byzantines troops...

[Lifthrasir]

We have already discussed about the Saxon Huskarls and there weren't many left when the game starts. After the Norman conquest of England and their failure to take it back, most of them left for different countries. Most of the early 'varangian' were not only Saxons but came from many other countries (mostly Northern Europe and Germany from what I remember). So keep the Varangian but remove these Huskarls.

[j.a.luna]

Hello nikosaizz and sship developers, is possible post some images about the new roman unit roster? For see the finish work and sure that it will be awesome...
Also you make upgrades armour for the differents new units? I dont know if is possible make new serbian and bulgar units for improve this faction roster, as said before these factions were pretty similar to eastern roman faction so is "easier" to make new models for them...

[Dekhatres]

Hello nikosaizz and sship developers, is possible post some images about the new roman unit roster? For see the finish work and sure that it will be awesome...

this, i would like to see them too, been a while since we've seen any screens from you nikosaizz

[VineFynn]

Hello nikosaizz and sship developers, is possible post some images about the new roman unit roster? For see the finish work and sure that it will be awesome...
Also you make upgrades armour for the differents new units? I dont know if is possible make new serbian and bulgar units for improve this faction roster, as said before these factions were pretty similar to eastern roman faction so is "easier" to make new models for them...

You're unlikely to see anything about unit rosters from us for a little bit, since we haven't started work on them yet (soon!). The upcoming update addresses a lot of other stuff, but not units.

[j.a.luna]

Ammm, but nikkosaizz said that he had ready his roman unit work, he finished or at least he said this... So i dont know if is possible have the new roman unit roster for the next version of sship but it would be great

[VineFynn]

Ammm, but nikkosaizz said that he had ready his roman unit work, he finished or at least he said this... So i dont know if is possible have the new roman unit roster for the next version of sship but it would be great

Whilst we appreciate his contributions, Nikossaizz is not a member of the SSHIP development team. Whether or not his work is ready doesn't have much to do with our ability to implement his work or the pace at which we do so, assuming we choose to.