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Thread: Battle overhaul submod! Version 5.0, compatible with CAC 1.0(10/6/2015)

  1. #1
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Battle overhaul submod! Version 5.0, compatible with CAC 1.0(10/6/2015)

    Version 5.0, compatible with Cac 1.0 (10/6/2015)

    http://www.mediafire.com/download/wx...e_submod_5.zip
    Hi all, today i want to share with you this submod i made in order to improve realism of battles. All battle mechanics have been deeply overhauled:

    Melee
    -First of all, this submod reduces casualties during melee: this decision is based on the observation that during ancient battles really few men died during combat, while a great number of them was killed when on side routed
    -Then, it completely reworks morale and fatigue system: now, having your troops tired or attacked from behind will be very dangerous!
    -pace of battle has been lowered too, with a great difference between light units and heavy units, wich are now slower. This forces the player to deploy infantry in a more prudent way, because it won't be able to run fast from a side to another of the battlefield

    Projectiles
    -projectiles and missile weapons were already pretty well balanced, so i only made some little change. The more important of this changes is the greater importance of shield as protection against projectiles than armour: this result was obtained by gretly increasing shield's chances to directly block missile weapons (depending on their size) and not simply by reducing projectiles' damage.

    Pike
    -Well, pikes in Rome 2 are pretty broken: they should be a purely defensive weapon and instead they are deadlier than a thank! Anyway, i think i finally managed to achieve a good balance, and now phalanges act properly: they inflict and suffer few casualties ( since, as you may know, pike in reality were used to keep enemies away from reaching formation)


    Hp
    -From the 5.0 version this submod adopts an 1 hp system


    To install the sub mod just extract it in your Rome 2 data folder, just like every other mod!
    Your feedback is welcome.

    PS: I want to thank Jam and Sheridan for having help me in the workshop section...and of course Iutland and Il Pitta for having done such a great mod.
    Last edited by Cesco; June 10, 2015 at 01:16 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Very good, Cesco!!+Rep

    I will add it to the stickies. We have to have more CAC submods before before a dedicated submod forum is made available. Therefore, I urge other potential modders to follow Cesco's example and produce valuable submods for CAC

  3. #3

    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cesco View Post
    Pike
    -Well, pikes in Rome 2 are pretty broken: they should be a purely defensive weapon and instead they are deadlier than a thank! Anyway, i think i finally managed to achieve a good balance, and now phalanges act properly: they inflict and suffer few casualties ( since, as you may know, pike in reality were used to keep enemies away from reaching formation)
    First thing, nice that your created a submod, will try it out.
    Second: Everything you stated about Pikes isn't true. They where NOT a purely defensive weapon, instead the Phallanx was capable of winning on its own, ever heard of "the push of the pike" ?

  4. #4
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Quote Originally Posted by skysyk View Post
    First thing, nice that your created a submod, will try it out.
    Second: Everything you stated about Pikes isn't true. They where NOT a purely defensive weapon, instead the Phallanx was capable of winning on its own, ever heard of "the push of the pike" ?
    I express myself badly: when i say that pikes where a purely defensive weapon, i mean that they weren't used to kill enemies, but, as you rightly said, to push and to break enemy formation thanks to phalanx' mass. In vanilla R2, pike are capable of killing 50 enemies in one minute, wich is a bit exagerate!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cesco View Post
    I express myself badly: when i say that pikes where a purely defensive weapon, i mean that they weren't used to kill enemies, but, as you rightly said, to push and to break enemy formation thanks to phalanx' mass. In vanilla R2, pike are capable of killing 50 enemies in one minute, wich is a bit exagerate!

    Ah, sure, sorry for getting your wrong there ^^ I just have a "nervous finger" when someone in CA games comes with the "defensive pikes"-stereotype

  6. #6
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Don't worry! On the contrary, any suggestion, observation or feedback is welcome! Believe me, In this submod i gave close attention to pikes units, trying to represent them as realistic as possible: they can win a combat even by themselves, sure, it greatly depends on morale and fatigue.

  7. #7
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Come on guys, i see many of you downloaded this submod, don't hesitate to leave you feedback then, even negative ones.

    anyway, i'm preparing a new version.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Cesco, I am very much impressed! I also make my own slow battle mod to add to any game simply because I agree with your views on how battles should progress. IMO units should route after only 10-20% casualties and not fight to the last man, running and especially fighting should fatigue units greatly, no two armoured units with shields should inflict 20-50% casualties on each other in under 3 or 5 mins only, and projectiles are not 50 cal bullets capable of inflicting so many casualties so quickly on units with shields. I love the idea of lowering the AP on projectiles. I didn't think of that one but it seems to work really well. For the first time ever I experienced a decent battle without using one of my slow battle mods. Thank you!

  9. #9
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Thank you, i'm really happy you like it.
    However, the submod is still far to be perfect (for example cavalry charges are too strongh and i want to do some adjustment to missiles, morale and maybe, formations) but i'm doing a new version, wich is almost ready.

  10. #10
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    New version! The most important change is the new shield system: shields represent now the major part of a soldier's armour and have more chances to block (and not just to reduce) missiles' damage.
    As always any kind of feedback is very much appreciated and needed.
    Last edited by Cesco; January 04, 2015 at 09:12 AM.

  11. #11
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    I wasn't satisfied by missile weapons's balance, so i made a new version (3.0)

  12. #12

    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Attacked Sirakosai with your mod. Im Roman.

    Charged a Epibatoi Sikeliotai (med marine missile infantry) fresh off the boats with my Equites in wedge formation. Missile troops flash but do not route or take big losses, stabilize the fight and threatens to route my cavalry.

    I counter removing my cav (its my general anyway) and attack the Epibatoi with pilla + charged by hastati. They run a little, get caught, do not flash and make hastati rout with like 145/160. After the rout the supergreekmarines draw their bows and wreck the fleeing hastati.

    Other landing epibatoi get pillacharged by hastati. Do not flash, hastati flashes, routs and gets wrecked by bows.

    On the other flank, hopitlai sikeliotai wants to charge my rorarii. I put my men in hoplite wall. Hoplitai charges, flashes rorarrii. I counter charge with a hastati pilla + charge at the 4oclock of the hoplitai. They do not flash, do not take palpable losses, end up routing both the rorarii and the hastati.

    My hastati tries to chip in to support, but gets sniped by epibatoi even when i put them to walk around in testudo. Hastati flashes, routs, testudo fails, gets sniped hardcore by super arrows.

    Hoplitai siketiolai epilektoi (their general elite hoplite unit) charges in and routs everything.

    BRB rerroling greek.

  13. #13
    Autaritus's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Hi!
    As a start, I'd like to congratulate Cesco for the mod, which faithfully captures the essence of ancient world battles, where melee provoked little casualties and the manslaught begun once one of the sides' formation had been broken, either by frontal pressure either -most of times- by flanking and surrounding.

    Now the question: when shall we enjoy a version of the mod compatible with CAC 0.9? Mod is great when it is about roster, reskins and campaign play but battles are more like a huge and fast massacre; many players love it but I prefer more tactical and realistic battle play, so Cesco's submod has become a must in my experience of CAC.

  14. #14
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    To fcpl: which level of difficulty did you set? Because if you play on hard or on very hard, Ai gets morale bonuses wich distorts battle balance

    Autaritus, i'm happy to read that. Hopefully i'll soon be able to release a new version...
    Last edited by Cesco; June 10, 2015 at 03:29 PM. Reason: grammar mistake
    Huic ab adulescentia bella intestina, caedes, rapinae, discordia civilis grata fuerunt ibique iuventutem suam exercuit

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    Autaritus's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cesco View Post

    Autaritus, i'm happy to read that. Hopefully i'll soon be able to release a new version...
    Cool! Are you thinking of making a similar mod for Attila? There are already several battle mods that slow melee combat and reduce kill rate -in vanilla battles the field is covered with corpses after two minutes of fight lol- but, in my opinion, they don't properly rework moral so you can't see how a unit with 80% casualties and surround by much superior forces keeps on fighting with a smile in their face....

    Thanks and keep up the goos work!

  16. #16
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    New version!

    And yes, i just upload a battle submod for Attila too, you can find it here:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...listic-battles
    Huic ab adulescentia bella intestina, caedes, rapinae, discordia civilis grata fuerunt ibique iuventutem suam exercuit

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    Autaritus's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Praised be all the deities of the pantheon! Thanks, man: I shall be trying the mods right as soon as possible.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 1.0, compatible with CAC 0.8 (19/12/2014)

    Hi again! CAC 1.0 looks simply great, so I wonder if the new update of your battle mod will be ready in the next days/weeks... Will you use the 1hp system here? It worked good in your Attila mod. Thanks!

  19. #19
    Cesco's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 5.0, compatible with CAC 1.0(10/6/2015)

    Look in the first post, there is a surprise As always, your feedback will be very usefull
    Huic ab adulescentia bella intestina, caedes, rapinae, discordia civilis grata fuerunt ibique iuventutem suam exercuit

  20. #20

    Default Re: Battle overhaul submod! Version 5.0, compatible with CAC 1.0(10/6/2015)

    Congrats with the new update Cesco. I apologize for not warning you of the release of CAC 1.0 [emoji54]

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