What are the prerequisites for Roma faction to have siege artillery and legionaries?

[Yarrr009]

Can you pardon my ignorance. But in EB1 I've never found artillery in recruiting window in any large cities(including Siracusa) even after Polybian reform. Neither were the cohorts.

[QuintusSertorius]

Can you pardon my ignorance. But in EB1 I've never found artillery in recruiting window in any large cities(including Siracusa) even after Polybian reform. Neither were the cohorts.

A modeller to make them. Are you volunteering?

[Yarrr009]

Wait you also meant they are not present in the released EBII, are you joking?

If so true I'll try modelling them, although I don't know what I'm saying.

[QuintusSertorius]

Wait you also meant they are not present in the released EBII, are you joking?

If so true I'll try modelling them, although I don't know what I'm saying.

They're not present. Let's lay it out, shall we? EBII is by no means complete, the overall roster is only about half full. We are still making new units all the time, and we are keen to get new modellers who can come on board and help us. The priority for units in the game is those which would be present at the start, 272BC. There are 28 factions, almost all of which have incomplete rosters. Some, such as Hayasdan have none of their factional units yet. Others like the Getai have only a handful of factionals, and none of the regional troops (the Thraikioi) who'd form the rest of their roster.

The Romans have a pretty much complete Camillan roster, including some of their Italian allies. They even have some of the Polybian units. Marian and gods forbid Imperial legionaries don't even merit being on the list of things to do, set against that context. Not least when it's something for really late in the game, where the vast majority of people playing are never going to see it. This game is not about the Romans, they are not important enough to get any sort of special focus above and beyond other factions who have far fewer units ready.

If you want Roman legionaries in the game, go learn how to use the various 2D and 3D modelling tools, and make them yourself. We'll be happy to welcome into the team anyone who's taught themselves the basics and is willing to learn more.

As to siege artillery, the Romans don't currently have the ability to recruit any in their buildings. The only thing anyone is able to recruit is the Oxybeles, no one can recruit the Scorpion. They're largely for Custom Battles, and they're not wall-reducing artillery anyway. As discussed elsewhere, we had someone looking at siege engines, but he left. So until someone else comes by with those skills, there will be no more.

[Yarrr009]

They're not present. Let's lay it out, shall we? EBII is by no means complete, the overall roster is only about half full. We are still making new units all the time, and we are keen to get new modellers who can come on board and help us. The priority for units in the game is those which would be present at the start, 272BC. There are 28 factions, almost all of which have incomplete rosters. Some, such as Hayasdan have none of their factional units yet. Others like the Getai have only a handful of factionals, and none of the regional troops (the Thraikioi) who'd form the rest of their roster.

The Romans have a pretty much complete Camillan roster, including some of their Italian allies. They even have some of the Polybian units. Marian and gods forbid Imperial legionaries don't even merit being on the list of things to do, set against that context. Not least when it's something for really late in the game, where the vast majority of people playing are never going to see it. This game is not about the Romans, they are not important enough to get any sort of special focus above and beyond other factions who have far fewer units ready.

If you want Roman legionaries in the game, go learn how to use the various 2D and 3D modelling tools, and make them yourself. We'll be happy to welcome into the team anyone who's taught themselves the basics and is willing to learn more.

As to siege artillery, the Romans don't currently have the ability to recruit any in their buildings. The only thing anyone is able to recruit is the Oxybeles, no one can recruit the Scorpion. They're largely for Custom Battles, and they're not wall-reducing artillery anyway. As discussed elsewhere, we had someone looking at siege engines, but he left. So until someone else comes by with those skills, there will be no more.

Garrr! And I've played so far... You said there's no future. I'll go have a look at some 3d apps .

[Roma_Victrix]

They're not present. Let's lay it out, shall we? EBII is by no means complete, the overall roster is only about half full. We are still making new units all the time, and we are keen to get new modellers who can come on board and help us. The priority for units in the game is those which would be present at the start, 272BC. There are 28 factions, almost all of which have incomplete rosters. Some, such as Hayasdan have none of their factional units yet. Others like the Getai have only a handful of factionals, and none of the regional troops (the Thraikioi) who'd form the rest of their roster.

The Romans have a pretty much complete Camillan roster, including some of their Italian allies. They even have some of the Polybian units. Marian and gods forbid Imperial legionaries don't even merit being on the list of things to do, set against that context. Not least when it's something for really late in the game, where the vast majority of people playing are never going to see it. This game is not about the Romans, they are not important enough to get any sort of special focus above and beyond other factions who have far fewer units ready.

If you want Roman legionaries in the game, go learn how to use the various 2D and 3D modelling tools, and make them yourself. We'll be happy to welcome into the team anyone who's taught themselves the basics and is willing to learn more.

As to siege artillery, the Romans don't currently have the ability to recruit any in their buildings. The only thing anyone is able to recruit is the Oxybeles, no one can recruit the Scorpion. They're largely for Custom Battles, and they're not wall-reducing artillery anyway. As discussed elsewhere, we had someone looking at siege engines, but he left. So until someone else comes by with those skills, there will be no more.

From the looks of the EB Twitter feed, it looks like the Romans will have at the very least a complete Polybian roster for the next release. Camillan units are kind of...dull and unexciting. However, the new and improved Polybian units look great, so for anyone interested in playing the Roman faction the next EB II release will definitely satisfy their tastes, I think. As for your negative opinion about Marian-era units, I really don't get the hostility you have with them and your inexplicable urge to categorically lump them together with Imperial-era units (the two should truly be viewed separately and I wouldn't expect Imperial-era units in the next release, maybe for a release in 2016, 2017 or something). The game would be just fine with even just a few Marian units, to be honest, you wouldn't need the full roster. I second you about Hayasdan, though, they really need fleshing out. Overall I'm amazed at the progress you guys have been making, though, keep up the good work!

As for Roman legionaries, if you look in the sub-mods folder, the Invasio-Barbarorum developer Midnite is being kind enough to transfer some DBM Marian-era legions to EB II in his own sub mod under my request.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...an-Legionaires

[Iaius Statius Laurentius]

Even from the perspective of a Roman player, Polybian units are sufficient to get you through the majority of your gameplay and conquering anyhow. But if other factions don't have their units, it's not going to be a very authentic experience. So the "units from 272 onward" approach makes sense even for a Roman-centric player.

[Yarrr009]

Even from the perspective of a Roman player, Polybian units are sufficient to get you through the majority of your gameplay and conquering anyhow. But if other factions don't have their units, it's not going to be a very authentic experience. So the "units from 272 onward" approach makes sense even for a Roman-centric player.

But I have to say goodbye in advance to the absent units... and... and... pointless...

[QuintusSertorius]

Garrr! And I've played so far... You said there's no future. I'll go have a look at some 3d apps .

But I have to say goodbye in advance to the absent units... and... and... pointless...

You have units to carry you through til at least 100BC. I'd hardly call that "no future".

Or alternatively, try playing another faction.

[madmatg]

I can tell you for me at least it is nice to have at least a few late game reforms to look forward to, it definitely adds some incentive to the game, maybe if you could get late game reforms for the more popular factions in and just include one new unit or no units and the reform window says "help us model so you can get your late game unit" haha. I think it would definitely add to the playability. But I understand it looks like you are all swamped

[QuintusSertorius]

I just don't see the appeal of the Marian roster, personally. Instead of all the variety enjoyed with the Camillan and Polybian troops, you now get identikit legionaries (who are basically Polybian Principes) and lose all the Italian troops too. So you get a blander roster and a need to go even further afield to build a functional army.

I could see (and I should stress this isn't an official view) using the Polybian Principes as a placeholder for the basic Marian legionary, but that wouldn't be much of a fix, since it would leave out three or four other important components of the Marian legion.

I do think (and this is just my personal view, not the team's policy or anything like that) the notion of an Imperial reform later still is a waste of time.

[Roma_Victrix]

I just don't see the appeal of the Marian roster, personally. Instead of all the variety enjoyed with the Camillan and Polybian troops, you now get identikit legionaries (who are basically Polybian Principes) and lose all the Italian troops too. So you get a blander roster and a need to go even further afield to build a functional army.

I could see (and I should stress this isn't an official view) using the Polybian Principes as a placeholder for the basic Marian legionary, but that wouldn't be much of a fix, since it would leave out three or four other important components of the Marian legion.

I do think (and this is just my personal view, not the team's policy or anything like that) the notion of an Imperial reform later still is a waste of time.

Marian reforms are an ultimate necessity, but you're right, the Imperial reform is probably not pressing at all or even necessary. However, having it would certainly satisfy the fans who loved the praetorian guard in the first EB. The praetorian guard in Roma Surrectum II were also beasts, so awesome looking, such bosses.



I would view them as somewhat of a later reward in playing as the Romani faction and having to tackle other factions like Carthage and their elite Sacred Band infantry early on. All hypothetical, of course, since Imperial units won't be in the next release and probably won't be in the game at all if the EB II team falls apart or retires after 2015 (Jupiter forbid it!).

[Genava]

Yeah but Lorica Segmentata is out of the time frame.

The late republican legion look like this:
http://www.armae.com/blog/une-legion...e-romaine.html

[Roma_Victrix]

Yeah but Lorica Segmentata is out of the time frame.

The late republican legion look like this:
http://www.armae.com/blog/une-legion...e-romaine.html

I'm well aware that lorica segmentata is Imperial-era. There were early Praetorian guard in Roma Surrectum II that were lorica hamata instead. This is what they looked like:

[Genava]

I'm well aware that lorica segmentata is Imperial-era. There were early Praetorian guard in Roma Surrectum II that were lorica hamata instead.

I know. But I doubt they will be in EBII. It's not really accurate. All the modern representations of the late republican legion come from a relief of Domitius Ahenobarbus dated just before the Marian Reforms. Thanks to Osprey every amateur had this wrong picture in the mind.

[+Marius+]

There are already existing models and textures from other mods that can be easily added to EB, if you are to lazy to create new units just reskin the existing units once you pass a certain timeframe(you cannot change stats mid-game though).

I mean seriously, I don't think I ever played a big mod overhaul(except EB1.2) without adding a ton of stuff from other mods to it.

[QuintusSertorius]

There are already existing models and textures from other mods that can be easily added to EB, if you are to lazy to create new units just reskin the existing units once you pass a certain timeframe(you cannot change stats mid-game though).

I mean seriously, I don't think I ever played a big mod overhaul(except EB1.2) without adding a ton of stuff from other mods to it.

If we just wanted any old content of any standard, we would. There is some re-use of material from other mods, but only when it's up to the standard the team requires. Especially of historicity. We're not going to put in legionaries wearing lorica segmentata, just to fulfil some people's desire to have late legionaries, regardless of how easy it might be to take them from someone else's mod.

[+Marius+]

If we just wanted any old content of any standard, we would. There is some re-use of material from other mods, but only when it's up to the standard the team requires. Especially of historicity. We're not going to put in legionaries wearing lorica segmentata, just to fulfil some people's desire to have late legionaries, regardless of how easy it might be to take them from someone else's mod.

The comment was meant for the OP, not the EB team.


I meant that if he is so irrationally disappointed about the lack of certain content, he can/should put it ingame himself.

[QuintusSertorius]

The comment was meant for the OP, not the EB team.


I meant that if he is so irrationally disappointed about the lack of certain content, he can/should put it ingame himself.

My bad.

[Iaius Statius Laurentius]

Yes, there is far less variety than the Polybian troops but the focus of EB is historical accuracy, after all. I'm sure plenty of old codgers in the Senate were upset about the loss of stylish Triarii -- I would be too -- but that's just what happened.

And Imperial reforms are a fun stretch goal and it's fun to use iconic units. They should definitely have lower priority than getting basically everything else ready during the primary centuries of the EB time period, but I would like to see them in at some point in the future for sure.