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  1. #1

    Default Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Levy Sizes and Garrisons

    As requested, elvies have been rebalanced to better reflect certain lore numbers.

    As it stands, the balance is now the Reach > the Riverlands > The Westerlands > the North ~ the Stormlands ~ the Vale > the Crownlands > Dorne > Iron Islands.

    Changelog:
    - The Reach increased slightly (about 7k points as compensation for the North jumping nearly 15k points)
    - the North increased to 71k level (mainly through eliminating the 250 point levy)
    - Westerlands is unchanged
    - The Vale and the Stormlands received minor nerfs if at all
    - The Crownlands have been nerfed slightly but higher than lore numbers are being kept. It's better RP for the King/ruler to have access to slightly more men and not be completely reliant on his LPs
    - Dorne has received a slight boost to compensate for its independence and make it less of an easy invasion target

    Garrison Introduced:

    After briefly discussing the size of garrisons relatively to the armies marching on the field an how garrisons were overall pathetic and not true obstacles, it has been decided that we will be separating the garrison of a castle/city/whatever with it's regional levy. From now on, you'll be able to use 100% of your levy points in the field and 80% of your levy points during the Winter.

    From now on, all castles are assumed to have a separate garrison that is 100% active all of the time to protect the holds providing a true defense/obstacle to taking a city. The garrison may be complimented by any additional soldiers from your levy/retinue/professional soldiers but garrison caps still do remain.

    You can see these two changes here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

    Essosi Trade Tweaking

    Updated Success Chance:
    Easy: 10/20
    Medium: 5/20
    Hard: 1/20

    New Bonus Limitations:
    In order to limit the amount of bonuses players were getting just due to traits, resources, and other non-RP based modifiers, I am imposing some limitations regarding any and all bonuses:

    - Charisma and trade resource based bonuses now only give half of their value and will be rounded down, so before a +7 bonus from let’s say two perfume sand +3 charisma will now only count as a +3 bonus.
    - From the following bonuses, only two of them can ever stack at one time.
    - This makes having a merchant for the harder difficulty trade routes more or less crucial unless you want to just slog through it and hope for the best.


    House of Influence: +1
    -- Defined as an LP House or any House that holds a powerful position (Small Council, non-hereditary title held by family member, Marshal of your region, etc) – Can only be considered
    once so multiple positions do not stack.
    Renewal Bonus: +1 from attempting to renew a trade agreement
    Center of Trade: +2
    Major Port City: +3
    -- Defined as being any city/province with a +1 trade lane
    Merchant Bonus: +5

    I want the routes to be just slightly harder to obtain and require more RP to do so with players being required to come up with more unique bonuses. The first attempt at this system was just a tad too easy and while i don’t want to make it much harder, the challenge still needs to be upped just a bit.

    In addition to the above limitations, I am also redoing some of the trade bonuses from the Essosi trade routes as I was not completely satisfied with some of them which were either very weak or somewhat unwieldy and did not offer anything but an RP avenue (Lys and Volantis really).

    Braavos:
    Trade Income: 150%
    Resource: Braavosi Shipbuilders.
    - -20% reduction to both cost and upkeep of naval units.
    Abilities Granted: Grants access to loans from the Iron Bank of Braavos.
    Number of Routes Available: 2
    Difficulty in Acquiring: High

    Lys:
    Trade Income: 150%
    Resource: Lyseni Warships
    - Allows the recruitment of a squadron of Lyseni Warships that are on par with a Grand Warship in power but cost that of an AOR warship.
    Abilities Granted: Also unlocks access to the Tears of Lys through extensive RP that will vary per attempt.
    Number of Routes Available: 2
    Difficulty in Acquiring: High

    Volantis:
    Trade Income: 200%
    Resource and Bonus: Silk and Spices
    - Exotic goods that can fetch a high price in Westeros
    Abilities Granted: Grants access to Volantine Elephants
    Number of Routes Available: 2
    Difficulty in Acquiring: High
    - Note Volantis is further modified by a Triarch roll that will be determined by a moderator. It will be easier to convince an Elephant Triarch to accept the trade offer versus a Tiger Triarch. You do not get to choose who it will be and it will be rolled upon by a moderator with a simple -10 being Tiger and 11 – 20 being an Elephant.

    Pentos:
    Trade Income: 150%
    Resource and Bonus: Sellsword Diplomat
    - Grants a 20% discount to hiring sellswords
    Abilities Granted: Grants access to the Windblown, a sellsword company that is of better quality but for the same price as other sellswords.
    Number of Routes Available: 3
    Difficulty in Acquiring: Medium

    Myr:
    Trade Income: 150%
    Resource: Myrish Crossbows
    - Allows access to the Myrish Crossbowmen Unit that is known to be one of the best marksmen throughout the world. Each man is worth 3 points per man. A max of 5 units can be employed.
    Abilities Granted: Grants access to the Myrish Eyes. Only one can be purchased per year for a max of 3 total for each contract.
    Number of Routes Available: 3
    Difficulty in Acquiring: Medium

    Summer Isles:
    Trade Income: 150%
    Resource: Goldenheart Wood
    Abilities Granted: Grants a +1 bonus to all missile units (Rped as units equipped with bows made out of Goldenheat wood is much better which it supposedly is in the lore).
    Number of Routes Available: 3
    Difficulty in Acquiring: Medium

    Tyrosh:
    Trade Income: 100%
    Resource and Bonus: Tyroshi Armorsmiths.
    - Grants a 20% discount to purchasing weapons and armor.
    Abilities Granted: None.
    Number of Routes Available: 5
    Difficulty in Acquiring: Easy

    Lorath:
    Trade Income: 150%
    Resource: Velvet
    - A prized resource that fetches great prices in Westeros. It has a higher income than normal trade routes.
    Abilities Granted: None. This is just an extra income route and nothing more.
    Number of Routes Available: 5
    Difficulty in Acquiring: Easy

    Qohor:
    - This is not an actual trade route but I will mention that players are allowed to attempt RP here in order to obtain one of their famed swords which will be in the quality between normal swords and Valyrian Steel ones

    Countering OOC/MG/PG

    Expiring Timestamps:

    All timestamps can now potentially expire if no forward progress is being made on the RP that is currently going on as determined by a moderator. A player may petition for the expiration of a particular timestamp and a moderator(s) will determine whether or not it will allowed. This is to prevent the exploitation of the timestamp system in order to delay an RP needlessly and will be based roughly on the following:
    - A timestamp is considered if no significant forward progress is being made on an RP for an extended of time, roughly 24-48 hours without meaningful activity, without a legitimate explanation
    -- Meaningful activity is not considered just random back and forth chatter or continuous attempts to avoid or obtain advantages in a battle or situation. RP cannot simply be stalled because you are not satisfied with your current situation.
    -- Legitimate explanations can included real life obligations (up to a certain point, ie we can wait 1-2 days due to RL but more than that and we’ll need to move on)
    -- A delay caused by moderation, like in situations where we are conversing with each other in order to deal with a particular problem or just simply waiting on battle orders from all sides, will not cause a timestamp to expire

    Retinue Hire Time:

    In order to prevent the abuse of the retinue system and their bonuses, it will now take 12 hours before the bonuses from a retinue will go into effect.
    - This is meant to encourage planning ahead with using retinues and to prevent a sudden influx of retinues being hired to take advantage of a good situation or foil a bad situation

    Conversion Resistance

    - All regions worshiping the Old Gods get a -10 to conversion bonuses. In addition, for every year without a successful conversion attempt, 50% of the current worshipers revert back to worshiping the Old Gods. If the current percentage is 5% or less, then after a year of no conversions, the amount drops to 0%.
    - Those worshiping the Drowned Gods receive a lesser resistance of -5.
    Last edited by Honors Bastion; May 29, 2015 at 09:34 AM.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Will we have separate points to use to recruit "garrison" troops/levies?

  3. #3
    ficenzi's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    What I want to know is how the Riverlands have so many soldiers

  4. #4

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Quote Originally Posted by ficenzi View Post
    What I want to know is how the Riverlands have so many soldiers
    They've always a had a huge levy. They need it. They're the Poland of Westeros.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Not once has the Riverlands been too OP with their levy in a game. There's always infighting in the Riverlands and even when they're united I've steamrolled them plenty of times before as Arryn and Lannister.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    On the Essosi trade,

    At this time the Rogare banking family of Lys was a rival to the Iron Bank of Braavos. Would this be reflected in their bonus, or not? Like being able to get loans from the Rogares, for example.

    For some years after the Dance of the Dragons, the Rogare bank rivaled the Iron Bank of Braavos in size, though it became diminished in later generations through as-yet not clearly explained circumstances. This seems to have been part of the "Lyseni Spring" which followed the breakup of the Kingdom of the Three Daughters at the end of the Dance of the Dragons. For a time, they became heavily involved in Westerosi court intrigues.
    @Ficenzi: I believe the Riverlands have so many soldiers because they are in an incredibly weak position, surrounded by four different regions with little to no natural barriers.

    EDIT: Also, how much money does Lorath bring? 150% +100% trade income, right?
    Last edited by Gandalfus; May 29, 2015 at 08:45 AM.

  7. #7
    ficenzi's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    We really need to RP that dividement of the Riverlands.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Will we have separate points to use to recruit "garrison" troops/levies?
    Any additional soldiers outside of your levies, garrison, or those granted by buildings will use the same professional soldier cap. It forces you to make tough choices that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard of Gloucester View Post
    On the Essosi trade,

    At this time the Rogare banking family of Lys was a rival to the Iron Bank of Braavos. Would this be reflected in their bonus, or not? Like being able to get loans from the Rogares, for example.

    @Ficenzi: I believe the Riverlands have so many soldiers because they are in an incredibly weak position, surrounded by four different regions with little to no natural barriers.

    EDIT: Also, how much money does Lorath bring? 150% +100% trade income, right?
    Rogare: Maybe but it's going to have to be more than just a basic bank as I'll have to see how Braavos and Rogare interact. Two banks that do the same thing is bit pointless.

    Lorath: 100% income = 10k dragons, 150% income = 15k dragons for a normal trade route. It's just a higher income than normal trade route with very little other benefit except for it being easy to get at the moment. ANd I realzie that it wrote out the bonus incorrectly. I'll need to fix that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ficenzi View Post
    We really need to RP that dividement of the Riverlands.
    The Riverlands are rarely united. There's always one House that is against the Tullys in some way. It's quite fun to see.


  9. #9
    Trot's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    I mean a large portion of the time the players don't rp the fact that most riverlords are divided and Tully's claim is weak, but it has happened and when it does the Riverlands really struggles. In one Restart the Lannister's would have conquered the Riverlands had Tully not sworn to Blackfyre when Blackfyre landed.

  10. #10
    Trot's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    If a player does not provide battle orders in a reasonable time without a legitimate explination will there be consequences? Like rolling the battle ith a sigficant malus to the delaying side to represent lack of leadership?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    The only time I saw Riverlands united was probably during my rulership, as I intended the Riverlander lords to be united.
    Probably would not have happened without me winning the entire Harrenhall tourney (I might remember that Whent became only my wife, because Edric Tully won the tournament - as well she could have been married a Targaryen, a Rowan or even Blackfyre, depending on who would have won in the end) and without me haveing ensured to pull the right loyal bannermen into my position (Darry player was always benefitted by me with Warden titles and Wheatley's Freys got later also tied to my House with a marriage) - without myself always being concerned to live up the words of my House and without the right players, who wanted to see the Riverlands rise to greater opportunities, it would have been impossible.
    And maybe the unexpected Daryn Tully escapade, where he convinced Oz with his letter to grant the Riverlands amnesty, pissing off the Lannisters completely to tear apart the victorious side. Fear the Troutdragon, as his texts can change the tide of war!

    I remember even that we considered to crown at some point Edric Tully King of the Riverlands, if we would have done a better figure against the Westerlanders at the Vale entrance (curse the Blackwoods for betrayal upon the own country men - never shall they recover in both settings. ), but yeah - in the end I was dependent on keeping my vassals alive until we could hope for better support against the Lannisters.

    ...

    God damn, I'm now tempted again to sign up for Tullys, if I wouldn't know that I can't do them a better job than I already did.
    Maybe Freys can do this time a better job.

    As for the rest of Tully overlords: I feel like Richard did a good job as well, but had no good luck with Oz plotting all the time for Harrenhall, while Pericles used this to nearly annihilate the Tully line. Oh, and curse of Jokern of course. I noticed those blows. :/
    Apart from that there are not quite memorable Tully RPs, I can remember. Velasco did kinda screw all his marriage contracts to plot with the Dornish, because I had other plans whom to install as my Queen to appease Arryn if I remember right and well... other Tully impressions I saw, where either quiet or made the Riverlands an afk region.
    Last edited by Lord Dread; May 29, 2015 at 10:01 AM.



  12. #12
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    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dread View Post
    but had no good luck with Oz plotting all the time for Harrenhall
    Nah, Matarys and Lord Hayford were always plotting for the Iron Throne until the very end. The terms of surrender included Harrenhal only because Matarys needed a worthy seat and Harrenhal was much better than Stonedance, both in terms of gameplay and lore.

    Also, Edric married Danelle Lothston iirc, not a Whent.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Quote Originally Posted by ByzantineCaesar View Post
    Nah, Matarys and Lord Hayford were always plotting for the Iron Throne until the very end. The terms of surrender included Harrenhal only because Matarys needed a worthy seat and Harrenhal was much better than Stonedance, both in terms of gameplay and lore.

    Also, Edric married Danelle Lothston iirc, not a Whent.
    As Oz stated above, talking upon Oz's Freys in recent game.

    And yeah, Lothstone-Whent always confuses me in this game. Danelle's second son was supposed to start the Whent line as Whent Tully. The only thing I was able to remember.



  14. #14

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    When was I ever the Tullys?

  15. #15
    Pericles of Athens's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    The rebellion restart, you tried to bride everyone with ridiculously large sums of dragons (including Stannis, lol) to get your daughter on the throne as queen. And then when Robert picked a bride from the Reach (I think) you started plotting with Dorne to overthrow the Baratheons you just helped seat.

    The new rules are looking nice HB! How are the Dragon rules coming along if I might ask?
    Last edited by Pericles of Athens; May 29, 2015 at 10:53 AM.


  16. #16

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles of Athens View Post
    The rebellion restart, you tried to bride everyone with ridiculously large sums of dragons (including Stannis, lol) to get your daughter on the throne as queen. And then when Robert picked a bride from the Reach (I think) you started plotting with Dorne to overthrow the Baratheons you just helped seat.

    The new rules are looking nice HB! How are the Dragon rules coming along if I might ask?
    I haven't started on reworking them tet but my hope is to get them finished for tomorrow but we'll see how tired I am after my 4 hour ER shift right now.

    Beyond the dragons, there isn't too much more that I need to tackle (as of right now). One last pass through will tell me what else needs to be addressed.


  17. #17

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Ah yes, and everyone acted shocked at the idea of dowries being paid.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Quote Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
    Ah yes, and everyone acted shocked at the idea of dowries being paid.
    You pay the possible stepbrother of the bride normally no dowry - that's why the dowry of 300,000 dragons was rather considered bribing than an actual dowry. Robert got told by Stannis after the feast that you also wrote him a letter.

    Just looked it up, I even said at this point that Robert had promised the Reach to marry into the King's House. My plans required some kind of Marie-Antoinette character, which Jokern had as a possible candidate during this time - in the end I sadly got Oz and well - I fear with what his Waynwood Queen would have ended.
    Guess Pericles as Stannis was at this point my only trustworthy ally. And the Estermont guy.



  19. #19

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    We were talking about this last game's, Byz. Btw, we cannot derail this thread anymore with OOC chat.

    Good changes, HB.

    Left: artwork by the great Duncan Fegredo.

    A link to my Deviantart's account.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Preview of New Rules for the Dance of Dragon Restart

    Was gonna say, I never played with Byz as Harrenhal lol.

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