Greater Emphasis on Client States

[Gage N]

From what I understand, one goal of this mod is to place a greater emphasis on client states as opposed to outright conquest. I like the idea, and agree, but it gives me one concern. The AI is terrible when it comes to dealing with client states to the point where I never use the feature. What I mean is that AI factions seem to constantly attack client states because the AI doesn't seem to comprehend that it means picking a fight with a much stronger faction, which is the one ruling over the client. It's as if they only see it as fighting a small one province faction and as a result are far too eager to wage war with clients. I find that creating a client state often means that soon I will end up at war with all neighboring factions because they all want a piece of my clients, and it frustrates me to the point that I never create clients. I was just wondering if you guys also thought it was a problem and if you planned on addressing it.

[ABH2]

Well, to start, one thing is that vassal/satrap will be used instead of the clients. It works more like actual client state status did. This will at least eliminate the clients declaring war on others unless they want to break away from you first. The second thing is - the mod will give the player the option of liberating every region in the game which technically establishes them as allies. The third aspect is CAI, but a complete solution to that is tough to come by.

The main thing is the player will have choice in the matter and different ways to take a territory or not.

[Gage N]

Thanks for the response. I'm sorry if I was unclear on some parts though. I'm not really concerned as much with clients declaring war, but more about the fact that other factions seem to always want to declare war on client states, whether they are satraps, tributaries, it doesn't seem to make much difference. It's as if they don't comprehend that it picks a fight with a larger nation. Also, if I'm reading that correctly, the liberate option creates allies rather than clients? I'm not opposed to that, just curious.

[ABH2]

Well, in terms of CAI, I don't believe anyone has really found a solution to that one. It happens even with allies, honestly, which is one of the drawbacks of our liberation system. Long term, its something to work on in terms of CAI. When we can get a release and some feedback, we will be able to tweak our CAI as we see fit if its a large issue.

I do think vassals will *help* reduce the number of ridiculous wars with clients.

[Gage N]

Sounds good. It appears that somewhere along the line CA has helped with the AI in that regard. I just started a Sassanid playthrough and so far after 60 or so turns have had no one declare war on any of my puppets. I did notice the Ghassanids declare war on the ERE's puppet, Lazica, but interestingly the ERE broke the client status with Lazica rather than actually fight the Ghassanids. In that sense, it definitely does make it more dynamic, and I look forward the the greater importance of these treaties in the mod.

One idea though. There are limited diplomacy options when it comes to dealing with the clients or puppets of another faction. Wouldn't it be possible then, if the wars are an issue, to simply remove the declare war option when negotiating with puppets? That way, if a faction wants to declare war they have to directly attack the ruling faction. I feel like that would be too far though, because fighting foreign nations that are trying to bully your clients would just be another part of international relations, and would certainly have been common historically. So, while a nuisance, it's certainly realistic to some extent.

[ABH2]

Unfortunately, declare war isn't linked to things like whether or not it is a client state in the DB. It's mostly hidden away from us. We can play with diplomatic options, but it's based on other factors unrelated to client/puppet status.

The best and really only approach is through the CAI.